When comparing cartridges of different calibers one can't go off of bullet weight alone. Look at the sectional densities (SD) of the bullet weight for the given caliber. Shooting a 140gr bullet out of a 7mm cartridge is comprable to shooting a 165gr bullet from a .30 caliber cartridge, a 154gr 7mm is comprable to a 180gr .30 cal so on and so forth. The 7-08 is a great cartridge it is just a shame that it is mostly limited to 140gr offerings.
Who likes the 7mm-08....
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When comparing cartridges of different calibers one can't go off of bullet weight alone. Look at the sectional densities (SD) of the bullet weight for the given caliber. Shooting a 140gr bullet out of a 7mm cartridge is comprable to shooting a 165gr bullet from a .30 caliber cartridge, a 154gr 7mm is comprable to a 180gr .30 cal so on and so forth. The 7-08 is a great cartridge it is just a shame that it is mostly limited to 140gr offerings.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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greenlion, you are getting the cartridge itself mixed up with the bullets. 7mm Mag uses the same bullets as the 7mm.08 (except the 7mm Mag can go a bit bigger in grain). And as far as barrel length, the .308 actually performs at almost it's best at 22 inch barrel lengths. The cartridge was actually designed for shorter barrel performance. 7mm.08 does as well. Anything from 20 inches to 24 is a beautiful length for either cartridge. It is all in the geometry of the shoulder. The case itself just lends to an efficient burn rate which transfers to the ability to perform well from shorter barrel lengths. It's why BOTH of them get such great results from hand-loading. I myself feel the 7mm.08 is the ultimate white-tail deer and hog cartridge. Shoots flatter, retains energy longer at the same grain weights and recoils a good bit less.
I'm not mixed up about it. I know the bullets in the 7mm-08 and 7mm mag are the same, thats why they are called 7mm. I am simply surprised that the 7mm08, being in the same case as the .308 can push a heavyweight bullet that much faster than a .308 to make much difference.
Thinking about it again, I'm still not convinced. The only bullets I can compare with exactly equal weights are 130 grain (light for both calibers) and not the heavy 168/175 grain bullets you all are talking about. Given the 2 inch advantage in barrel length (in favor of the 7mm-08) in my book, and the fact that the 7mm08 favors lighter bullets, I still don't believe it, until someone provides published data from a trusted source. I would buy it for light bullets, but not for bullets that heavy.
Anybody have any published data on heavier bullets comparing apples to apples with no anecdotes?
Thinking about it again, I'm still not convinced. The only bullets I can compare with exactly equal weights are 130 grain (light for both calibers) and not the heavy 168/175 grain bullets you all are talking about. Given the 2 inch advantage in barrel length (in favor of the 7mm-08) in my book, and the fact that the 7mm08 favors lighter bullets, I still don't believe it, until someone provides published data from a trusted source. I would buy it for light bullets, but not for bullets that heavy.
Anybody have any published data on heavier bullets comparing apples to apples with no anecdotes?
1911Tuner
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The 7-08 is a good cartridge. Whether it holds enough of an edge over the .308 to make a real difference at reasonable hunting ranges is up for debate. A few ft lbs of energy or an inch or two in trajectory at 300 yards is pretty much a non-issue. The two are essentially ballistic twins, much like the .30-30 and the .32 Special. Flip a coin.
a-sheepdog
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I own two 7mm-08 rifles and think they are a great cartridge for multiple applications.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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Given equal bullet weights (154gr Interbond vs the 155gr A-Max) the 7mm.08 at 300 yards will have 94 foot pounds more energy and be 2.5 inches higher. Now I don't know about you, but 2.5 inches to me could very well mean hit or miss. And 94 foot pounds could mean the difference of pass through or not. The BC of .284 diameter bullets are just higher. Plain and simple. And that is conducive of better performance downrange. Not taking away from the .308W as it is a fantastic cartridge itself but you gotta give credit where it is due. The 7mm.08 is just flat out an advancement of the .308W cartridge. I'll take better downrange performance with LESS recoil any day of the week and twice on Sunday
Kachok
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Says the man that totes a compact 500 S&W as his CCWI'll take better downrange performance with LESS recoil any day of the week and twice on Sunday
BigN
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Absolutely. Light bullets, heavy bullets, accurate as all get out, very little recoil, what's not to like?
mljdeckard
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I am planning on building uppers in .243, .308, and .260 for an AR-10. If those don't cover everything I need, I might look at a 7-08. And yes, most of this is made possible because I have started handloading.
.223, 6.5x55 and .308 covers me. If 6.5x55 didn't exist, I'd probably like 7mm-08 too. I'm partial to efficient cartridges (don't like 22-250, don't like magnums).
Edit: Responding to post below this.
Yep, if 6.5x55 or 7mm-08 didn't exist, my next favorite would be the 7x57.
Edit: Responding to post below this.
Yep, if 6.5x55 or 7mm-08 didn't exist, my next favorite would be the 7x57.
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Kachok
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Chuck Hawks has said that the perfect deer cartrage is between the 6.5x55, 260 Rem, and 7-08 I tend to agree, they are highly accurate, moderate recoil, and more then enough energy/penatration to easly kill any deer that ever walked within any reasonable range. Though I would add 25-06, 257 Roberts and 7x57 to that list too.
Freedom_fighter_in_IL
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HA! Like hell I do. I carry it when I am in the Big Woods for big critters with teeth and claws. 1911 .45 is what I usually carry for CCW (When not in this socialist state of Illinois)
mljdeckard, you would be quite pleased with one in 7mm.08. Just got mine not long ago from Accuracy Systems. With a hand-load that Flintknapper helped me come up with (kind of new to reloading for gas operated AR platform so timing was an issue and he helped me quite a bit) I am driving tacks with it. Clover leafing at 100 yards.
Flintknapper
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Can't say that I "like it"....cause I LOVE IT.
It's a great cartridge for a lot of folks. I honestly wish I'd tried one sooner (had one for about 15 yrs. now).
I am not a person easily impressed....but the '08 charmed me right from the start.
Given equal bullet weights (154gr Interbond vs the 155gr A-Max) the 7mm.08 at 300 yards will have 94 foot pounds more energy and be 2.5 inches higher. Now I don't know about you, but 2.5 inches to me could very well mean hit or miss. And 94 foot pounds could mean the difference of pass through or not. The BC of .284 diameter bullets are just higher. Plain and simple. And that is conducive of better performance downrange.
Don't know how you count to two hundred, but 154 and 155 are not equal bullet weights the way I do it. I'm curious where you got that data. If it is from a ballistics table, did the reloading book say what barrel length each caliber was in? I'm just wondering if the loads we are looking up ever reach those top velocities listed, since most of us do not have a 24 inch barrel on the 7mm-08 that my Speer reloading manual uses to test theirs.
Don't know how you count to two hundred, but 154 and 155 are not equal bullet weights the way I do it. I'm curious where you got that data. If it is from a ballistics table, did the reloading book say what barrel length each caliber was in? I'm just wondering if the loads we are looking up ever reach those top velocities listed, since most of us do not have a 24 inch barrel on the 7mm-08 that my Speer reloading manual uses to test theirs.
Offfhand
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The 7/08 is a good round and I used it for hunting and rifle competition (Silhouette) successfully for a few years. But then the .260 came along and I haven't bothered with the 7/08 since. Everything that is good about the 7/08 is even better with the .260.
GooseGestapo
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The advantage of the 7mm-08 over the .308 isn't at 200 or 300yds. It really doesn't appear till out at 500yds and further. The momentum of the 162gr BtHp match bullets of the 7mm clearly out performs the .308 on metal silhouttes. The 162 and later 168gr .284" match bullets will start out from a 7mm08 around 100fps slower than the same weight bullet from a .308 given an equal barrel length. Due to significantly higher ballistic coefficients of the .284" bullets they surpass the .308 at and beyond 300yds.
The same goes for a comparison between the .260 and 7mm08. I have both in Remington Mod-7's. The 7mm08 will get close to 200fps faster velocities given the 140gr bullets. With a 150gr bullet, the 7mm08 is still 100fps faster than the .260 with a 140. Hence, I give the advantage to the 7mm. That, and the larger diameter gives the 7mm slightly better killing power.
At least that's been my experience between the two.
In my case though, the .260 has a decided advantage over the 7mm08 in that it averages groups less than 1/2 the size of the 7mm08. True, this is due to individual rifle differences, but, there lies the rub.....so to speak...
Have both, and have owned .308's. But, I "kept" the .30/06's...... dumped the .308's.
The same goes for a comparison between the .260 and 7mm08. I have both in Remington Mod-7's. The 7mm08 will get close to 200fps faster velocities given the 140gr bullets. With a 150gr bullet, the 7mm08 is still 100fps faster than the .260 with a 140. Hence, I give the advantage to the 7mm. That, and the larger diameter gives the 7mm slightly better killing power.
At least that's been my experience between the two.
In my case though, the .260 has a decided advantage over the 7mm08 in that it averages groups less than 1/2 the size of the 7mm08. True, this is due to individual rifle differences, but, there lies the rub.....so to speak...
Have both, and have owned .308's. But, I "kept" the .30/06's...... dumped the .308's.
Kachok
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When comparing bullets of the same BC the 260 is faster and flatter shooting then the 7-08 no doubt about it, and the 6.5mm projectiles are great on Bambi sized game, the advantage the 7-08 has over the 260 is larger caliber heavier bullets for larger game. Neither is " better" then the other, just depends on what you are putting holes in.
Target shooting. 123gr LS bullets have a .547BC and the the 260 can drive them to 3,000fps, that runs neck and neck with a 300 Win Mag VLD 185gr at max load. The 7-08 with a 140gr VLD is pushing .480BC with only 2,900fps very similar to what I can do with my 30-06.
Hunting. The 260 can push 120gr Ballistic Tips just over 3k with a .458BC this mimics the performance of the 130gr 270 win, mabey just a touch better downrange thanks to it's slightly higher BC. With 140 it can push 2,800 fps, faster then the 7-08 can push it's 160s, though I would perfer the 7mm bore for larger game paper ballistics be damned.
Target shooting. 123gr LS bullets have a .547BC and the the 260 can drive them to 3,000fps, that runs neck and neck with a 300 Win Mag VLD 185gr at max load. The 7-08 with a 140gr VLD is pushing .480BC with only 2,900fps very similar to what I can do with my 30-06.
Hunting. The 260 can push 120gr Ballistic Tips just over 3k with a .458BC this mimics the performance of the 130gr 270 win, mabey just a touch better downrange thanks to it's slightly higher BC. With 140 it can push 2,800 fps, faster then the 7-08 can push it's 160s, though I would perfer the 7mm bore for larger game paper ballistics be damned.
I don't have one, yet, but I've been thinking wether my next cartridge will be in 25-06 or in 7mm-08. I'm some what leaning to 7mm-08 because there is a much wider selection of bullets available in the caliber. There is just something about the 25-06 though that gets me excited, not sure what it is.
I have no need for the 7mm 08 and here is why;
1. 308 reloading and factory components are more available.
2. 308 and 7mm are so ballistically close that it really doesn't matter.
3. 308 gun components are more available.
4. Ballistics aside, I like the 308 ability to handle heavier bullets and the larger diameter.
5. Recoil sensitivity is not really important in this comparison.
The way I look at this comparison is that, if I am going to step up in power or ballistic ability, it isn't going to be to a very marginal twin like the 7mm 08. I'd go to a 300 magnum. Conversly, if I want to step down due to recoil or much flatter trajectory then I'd go to a 6mm variant.
Go 30 cal. or above or go home.
1. 308 reloading and factory components are more available.
2. 308 and 7mm are so ballistically close that it really doesn't matter.
3. 308 gun components are more available.
4. Ballistics aside, I like the 308 ability to handle heavier bullets and the larger diameter.
5. Recoil sensitivity is not really important in this comparison.
The way I look at this comparison is that, if I am going to step up in power or ballistic ability, it isn't going to be to a very marginal twin like the 7mm 08. I'd go to a 300 magnum. Conversly, if I want to step down due to recoil or much flatter trajectory then I'd go to a 6mm variant.
Go 30 cal. or above or go home.
MMCSRET
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I watched it for years, helped a neighbor develop hand loads for his. I fell into a beautifully sporterized Mauser with a butchered Remington barrel in 308, played with it, couldn't make it shoot. I'd had a brand new 7MM barrel standing in the corner for 5 years, got to looking and decided 7-08. The action was a 1909 Oberndorf intermediate length, would just fit the 7-08 really well, the action had been a Peruvian contract in 7.65X53. What a beautiful little carbine, I had the barrel done at 20". That 7-08 shoots everything well and most better than that. Great cartridge and gun.
1911Tuner
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Well...Unless you've got eagle eyes, you can't see 2.5 inches at 300 yards, much less hold to it under field conditions. Zero for 225-250 yards, and the trajectory will take care of itself from 25 out to 300...with either caliber...without having to hold over or under.
See: Maximum Point Blank Zero
In the second place, 94 ft lbs is roughly equal to a Smith & Wesson .32 Long (70 grains/800 fps) Do you really believe that'll mean the difference between venison and Mcdonald's for supper? (Assuming a well-placed shot)
I think not.
500 yards? Forsooth! I think there are better calibers for such distances.
Like the Scotsman said:
"Laddie...yer nau a real hoonter 'til ye've passed oop a shot."
I'll pass on 500 yards. I don't like to see wounded game animals run off.
The 7mm-08 is a sweetheart medium game cartridge as well as the 260/6.5x55 and 308. It's a fact that the 6.5mm bullets hold an advantage in BC and SD when compared to 7mm and 30cal bullets of same weight. But, the reality is that most shots taken on BG are well within 300yds (actually more like 100 -200yds), at least on the east coast and therefore a mute point. At those distances, your bullets BC and SD are not nearly as important as your bullets construction (ie - would you rather shoot a 200-300lb boar @ 100yds through both shoulders with a SMK or TSX?). If you routinely hunt wide open country and take 500yd+ shots, then the concern about your bullet's BC is valid. All the calibers mentioned have a good selection of well constructed hunting bullets available and will get the job done, emphatically, with a well placed bullet. The primary reason that I hunt medium game with a 7mm-08 or 260 (I have rifles in both) is that their SA and mild recoil can be had in a light, handy rifle that is a pleasure to shoot and practice with. No flies on the 308, but for me, just not as much fun to practice with in a LW rifle. I also think the availability of well constructed, deep penetrating bullets such as the TSX/TTSX, Accubond, or Partiton to name a few, level the playing field if you want to hunt with light for caliber bullets.
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