Who likes the ARX projectile?

[shoebox1.1]

Fellow here mentioned the ARX in his CA and really likes it. I find the screwdriver bit looking projectile fascinating. The weight concerns me 77gr in 38 special but it’s cookin at 1100 FPS+. I guess the wound cavity is all that matters. I’m trying to figure out a carry load for both my undercover AND my king cobra 3 inch. Ethier this ARX or the fbi load or wadcutters. That’s my top 3. Shots on target is paramount with these guns. Your thoughts gentlemen...

 

[mcb]

I am a heavy for caliber kind of shooter. I was hoping the round nose version was going to be cheaper to shoot but at least so far I can still shoot polymer coated lead cheaper than anything else on the market for practice and play. It's interesting technology but I am not seeing any advantage in performance or cost.

 

[RevolvingGarbage]

I dislike light for caliber bullets.

That said, these seem to meet the criteria available to judge if a bullet will be effective at its job. I probably won't ever mess with them unless I'm loading some of my own for experimenting, but they seem to check out on paper.

 

[unclenunzie]

These are interesting as something relatively new conceptually, but I wonder why you wouldn't go with a tested, proven round that probably costs less. Something like speer gold dot short barrel 135 grain +P. When available in 50 round boxes they can go as low as 60 cents a round, sometimes less. Also It would be great to know of an agency that issued them for backup revolvers or at least authorized their use.

 

[shoebox1.1]

I agree. If we had some real world numbers out there I’d then be inclined to carry these. They are fascinating.

 

[MikeInOr]

I could have sworn that they advertised limited penetration through drywall back when the ARX first came out??? I picked up a box of the Ruger ACP for my XD mod 2 in .45acp house gun back then. I haven't seen anything about limited penetration since they first came out so I abandoned the idea of the ARX. If a .45 acp Gold dot doesn't get the job done I am probably screwed no matter what bullet I am packing. If they were cheap, cheap, cheaper than lead FMJ I might reconsider them for reloading... but from what I have seen they still command a premium.

 

[Hartkopf]

I do not like these light non expanding bullets. I did some testing on the other brand of solid bullets (65gr 9mm 1800fps) and I was not impressed. In plain gel, they look ok to pretty good but I believe they will not penetrate reliably in a real life bad guy.

I would give more hope to the 90gr in 9mm and maybe 110gr in 38 Spec.

 

[sabbfan]

They are what I use in my LCP in 380. Only thing I have actually used them on are some raccoons in live catch traps, they worked just dandy on them! Figured for that caliber it’s the best choice since a hollow point won’t always expand with 380 velocities. For 38 special I really like the Federal micro HST, very accurate in my LCR.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I carry the ARX 77 grain in my EDC a 1-7/8" Ruger LCR. I'm convinced it's comparable to its lead counterparts in both penetration and wound cavity. Evidence of its capabilities abounds.. many which have been shown on this forum several times.

I like that the ARX gives a higher velocity out of shorter barrels while giving the same effects via hydraulic cavitation that a heavier leaded bullet gets from its expansion. It has been proven that a JHP's expansion is extremely inconsistent in slow moving projectiles. Because of its milder recoil the 77 grain ARX allows one to get back on target faster. It's penetration with a controlled tumble gives consistent penetration and minimizes collateral damage.

I feel it's a great round for short barreled guns.

 

[herrwalther]

I was never impressed by the gelatin tests I saw online.

 

[TTv2]

I do not like these light non expanding bullets. I did some testing on the other brand of solid bullets (65gr 9mm 1800fps) and I was not impressed. In plain gel, they look ok to pretty good but I believe they will not penetrate reliably in a real life bad guy.

I would give more hope to the 90gr in 9mm and maybe 110gr in 38 Spec.

I'm gonna guess the other brand was Liberty Civil Defense and that ammo is meant to expand and not penetrate walls. Compared this to that is not a fair comparison.

 

[TTv2]

As usual, the old guard comes in and detests the light for caliber bullet because it's contrary to their normal thinking. Hey, I can understand being set in your ways, but to make these bullets out to be incapable of being effective is illogical. They have their strengths and weaknesses, but the strength is in short barrel handguns because hollow point expansion is always questionable.

I like these for .380, probably my favorite option for that caliber. I also like it for .38 and 9mm snub revolvers. For everything else, there are better options.

 

[Hartkopf]

I'm gonna guess the other brand was Liberty Civil Defense and that ammo is meant to expand and not penetrate walls. Compared this to that is not a fair comparison.

No it was Underwood Lehigh 65gr Defender. I gave it a fair test and was ready to carry it if it performed good. I still carry Gold Dots.

As I said, I would give the 90gr (in 9mm) more hope so I'm not against this style of bullet if it will perform. I have not tested the 90gr yet.

 

[Fiv3r]

I like the accuracy:lower recoil ratio. I'm not inclined to run it in my bigger guns as they soak up recoil just fine, but in a lightweight .38 snub they perform really well.

Do they penetrate as well more traditional loadings? I dunno. However, I would rather have an accurate round that hits where I want it to rather than missing the broad side of a barn when I only have 5 beans to go 'round.

 

[WheelGunMan]

For the sake of this thread, I'll reiterate the ARX's qualities.

HERE is a 2016 gel test combined with layers of denim. It shows the ARX round to be oblivious to clothing barriers... and far as penetration goes... after going thru several layers of denim it hustles right up to the FBI protocol. Penetrating even deeper than thru clear gel. The wound cavity is caused by the flutes on the rotating projectile. It's called the "Venturi Effect" in the hydraulics science world. A technology that has been around a long, long time and fortunately for the shooting world, someone was forward thinking enough to apply it to the ballistic equation.

The velocity of the .38 Spcl 77 grain bullet was 1049 fps over a 5 shot average, which is pretty darn fast out of a 1-7/8" barrel! He never did get around to testing the .357 86 grain before he shut down his site..but based on his results and the manufacturers published velocity, it would put the 86 grain at 1423 fps out of the same barrel...now that's wicked fast for the 1-7/8" barrel! I haven't yet, but I'm going to get a couple boxes of the .357 86 grain and see what the recoil is. I also just got into reloading with one of my projects is going to be taking the standard ARX 77 grain round up to a +P load.

Need more "real world" info?? Go to the 14:36 minute mark on this Paul Harrell Video as he tests the ARX rounds on his famous "meat" target. It tore it up pretty good...or watch the entire video to see it shoot thru a variety of materials.

There are other testimonials from successful hog hunters regarding the ARX's ability in that realm. I hopefully am going to try some .38 Spcl 77 grain on coyote hunting this year..I'll be using my Marlin 1894 .357 with an 18" barrel. That should prove to be interesting.

For me, it's the close range defensive capabilities that make this round a perfect fit for my easily concealable short barrel LCR357.

 

[Hartkopf]

Hog hunters using these rounds in pistols would be very interesting. I would love to see several examples of that.

 

[shoebox1.1]

Very interesting on the piggies.... hummmm...

 

[Zendude]

I like the idea of ARX in cartridges where hollow point expansion and penetration are iffy. Specifically, 380acp and 38 special. Also, I think the chances of a misfeed in a semiauto is less compared to a hollow point because the ARX has a FMJ profile.
Midway runs them on sale for about $13 per box too.

 

[SteadyD]

I like the accuracy:lower recoil ratio. I'm not inclined to run it in my bigger guns as they soak up recoil just fine, but in a lightweight .38 snub they perform really well.

Do they penetrate as well more traditional loadings? I dunno. However, I would rather have an accurate round that hits where I want it to rather than missing the broad side of a barn when I only have 5 beans to go 'round.

Do they have the same or similar POI as more traditional weight bullets?

 

[mcb]

Pedantic engineer, that bullet does some interesting fluid dynamics at the target but that is not the Venturi Effect. The Venturi Effect is the velocity increase and pressure decrease as a fluid (liquid or gas) flows through a constriction in an internal flow. ie the Venturi Effect is how the air flowing through the constriction in a carburetor can suck fuel from the fuel bowl and mix with the intake air.

I didn't see a BC published for them but it can't be good. That same interesting hydraulic effects on the target due to the shape is doing similar to the air. Anyone else seen a BC or trajectory publish on this ammo? I am thinking more of the 450 Bushmaster and similar loads. BC doesn't matter much at social disagreement distances.

 

[WheelGunMan]

Pedantic engineer, that bullet does some interesting fluid dynamics at the target but that is not the Venturi Effect. The Venturi Effect is the velocity increase and pressure decrease as a fluid (liquid or gas) flows through a constriction in an internal flow. ie the Venturi Effect is how the air flowing through the constriction in a carburetor can suck fuel from the fuel bowl and mix with the intake air.

I didn't see a BC published for them but it can't be good. That same interesting hydraulic effects on the target due to the shape is doing similar to the air. Anyone else seen a BC or trajectory publish on this ammo? I am thinking more of the 450 Bushmaster and similar loads. BC doesn't matter much at social disagreement distances.

I'm certainly do not profess to be an engineer either, so can only quote the manufacturers words. This quote is from their website. I can only go on what the manufacturer says to be true.

ADVANCED PERSONAL DEFENSE AMMUNITION.

The ARX® is a revolutionary bullet in every sense of the word. From the way it’s manufactured, to its shape, to the way it transfers energy to the target. The non-expanding ARX is injection-molded from a specially blended polymer-copper matrix that is designed to be tough enough for an all-purpose defense round.

Upon entering soft tissue, the specially designed grooves in the nose harness the soft tissue and constrict, pressurize and eject it at 1.5 to 2 times the directional speed of the bullet. This is the well-known Venturi Effect. As the bullet penetrates, it tumbles in a controlled, predictable fashion that delivers consistent terminal performance that equals or exceeds conventional hollow-point designs without over penetrating.

Inceptor® ARX Preferred Defense rounds are designed to function in all weapons, including large-frame handguns, carbines and automatic weapons. Due to the lightweight ARX bullet, it has a low-recoil signature for increased follow-up accuracy in critical defense situations.

 

[mcb]

I'm certainly do not profess to be an engineer either, so can only quote the manufacturers words. This quote is from their website. I can only go on what the manufacturer says to be true.

I am an engineer, though more focused on solid-mechanic/dynamics than fluid/thermal but I have still had several fluid classes and use it occasionally in the day job. Google "Venturi effect" and see if anything in its description matches what is going on with this bullet. The Venturi effect is only valid for internal flows. The only time you see Venturi reference with respect to external flows is when its being disproved as to why wings produce lift. The "effect" the manufacture is seeking to explain might be best explained by theories based on Bernouli and/or Newton but certainly not Venturi.

 

[Hartkopf]

I am an engineer, though more focused on solid-mechanic/dynamics than fluid/thermal but I have still had several fluid classes and use it occasionally in the day job. Google "Venturi effect" and see if anything in its description matches what is going on with this bullet. The Venturi effect is only valid for internal flows. The only time you see Venturi reference with respect to external flows is when its being disproved as to why wings produce lift. The "effect" the manufacture is seeking to explain might be best explained by theories based on Bernouli and/or Newton but certainly not Venturi.

I’m not an engineer but I spent a decade porting cylinder heads for race motors. Basically playing with the shape of the port to create a Venturi to control air speed. I’m not qualified to disprove ARX’s advertising but I have always wondered how they came up with the Venturi effect for a bullet simply displacing material at high speed.

 

[WheelGunMan]

I am an engineer, though more focused on solid-mechanic/dynamics than fluid/thermal but I have still had several fluid classes and use it occasionally in the day job. Google "Venturi effect" and see if anything in its description matches what is going on with this bullet. The Venturi effect is only valid for internal flows. The only time you see Venturi reference with respect to external flows is when its being disproved as to why wings produce lift. The "effect" the manufacture is seeking to explain might be best explained by theories based on Bernouli and/or Newton but certainly not Venturi.

You might want to call Inceptor Ammunition and argue their findings with them. I'm sure they have an engineer or two on their staff who can back up those claims. As for me, I looked at and read the Google reference on the Venturi effect...actually read it twice and I'm still no closer to understanding it now as when I started. They've been advertising that term since day one and I'm pretty sure that if someone proved them wrong they would have retracted it long ago.

 

[mcb]

You might want to call Inceptor Ammunition and argue their findings with them. I'm sure they have an engineer or two on their staff who can back up those claims. As for me, I looked at and read the Google reference on the Venturi effect...actually read it twice and I'm still no closer to understanding it now as when I started. They've been advertising that term since day one and I'm pretty sure that if someone proved them wrong they would have retracted it long ago.

Its even odds the engineers probably have never seen that wording. Probably all made up by the market team. Been there done that.