Who makes the worst 1911?

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valnar

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Too many threads about what is best, so what about who's worst? At least this will help the newbies narrow down which brands to stay away from, then they can make up their mind on the rest.

I vote for Charles Daley. :barf:

Actually, I vote for any 1911 that costs less than $500.


-Robert
 
So that would make my 100% reliable out of the box RIA that I paid $299 for a not worthy 1911.I sure wish I'd known I had to spend another $200 to get a good one.Great now I'm gonna have to get rid of my $379 Springfield Mil-Spec too.
Why wasn't I informed of the $500 thing before hand.:rolleyes:
 
The guy who brought his kit 1911 into the shop the other day.


Someone should have informed him that when they say "drop-in", they're usually just kidding. :uhoh:
 
The Worst?

Can't cast a vote for Llama, since they're not really 1911s...even though they look like'em. (Yeah, I know. Neither is a Colt Commander, but
I ain't goin' there)

Thompson Auto Ordnance is pretty high on the list. So is the old AMT Hardballer. Can't speak for Kahr Auto Ordnance pistols, since I haven't yet had the pleasure. I guess the guys in the know are gun-shy because of the memories of Thompson's pistols and avoid'em. The single worst one that I've ever encountered was a Safari Arms...Ever! Bar none.

Haven't seen a Daly either, but I hear things...Ditto for Dan Wessons.
4 out of 5 RIAs get reports that are fair to middlin', and they seem to vary
from "Excellent" to "Okay" to "POS ain't worth firin' up the torch to cut it up for scrap".

'Bout all I can offer...

Luck!

Tuner
 
Before I start.

This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary.

In my years of shooting IPSC/IDPA/bowling pins/NRA Action Pistol and Speed Steel, the gun that broke the most and needed to be sent to the 'smith or the factory was Kimber. Some ran great, some really stunk. From what I saw, as the price went up and Kimber moved to NY the quality got really iffy. Based on what I read here at THR, thing haven't changed much.

Once again
This is my opinion. Your opinion may vary.

ZM
 
My Kahr/Auto-Ordnance 1911A1 seems to be pretty good, after 200 rd of ball. Before I bought it, I was told in more than one store that Kahr had greatly improved the AOs.
 
From what I saw, as the price went up and Kimber moved to NY the quality got really iffy. Based on what I read here at THR, thing haven't changed much.
Click to expand...

I am given to understand that all Kimber 1911's, even the Clackamas-marked guns, were made in NY.
 
AMT was wildly inconsistent at making guns, but I actually have shot one that worked, though it was miserably crude. All the others I saw or shot were unreliable turds.

Para-Ordnance are probably the junkiest for what they cost now. The one I owned was close to incurably broken out of the box; I sold it for scrap parts. If I threw out everything but the frame and slide it might have worked eventually, though.

Recently made Kimbers seem to have "steel" parts break in two at random for no apparent reason. Suff like thumb safeties and grip safeties... not exactly high-stress applications. The older Kimber I had was nice, though.

The mega-cheap third world guns fit in here someplace too.
 
I have seen more Charles Daley’s lately then I wish I had. A local dealer was selling them, and when dissatisfied customers brought them back with problems he ask me for advice. Several buyers complained of misfires. I determined the cause to be an excessively heavy firing pin spring that could have done double-duty in the suspension of a pickup truck. Apparently this came about in an effort to obtain certification in California’s drop test. In that context I’m sure it worked.

While outside cosmetics were not bad the internal workmanship left a lot to be desired. This might be expected on a “low end†pistol, but when it impinged on function and reliability I would say they’d gone down too far.

I examined a recoil spring plug removed form a sub-compact model that was apparently cast – or possibly MIM – that had broken in two through a very thin section. In addition I heard of two others that did the same.

The final straw, so far as the dealer was concerned, was that Daley’s Customer Service Department offered no help at all. He was run around in circles between Daley and the distributor he’d purchased the guns from. Eventually he did get some support from the distributor, but he will not stock or sell Daley products anymore.

To summarize: Outside of external cosmetics the workmanship is rough, critical fitting is poor, materials are questionable (internal lockwork, manual and grip safeties, and the slide stop are all cast, and do not appear to be quality castings, and the company doesn’t offer any customer support. I’d strongly recommend that buyers stay away from them.
 
Well, Tuner certainly knows 1911's better than me but I had a Dan Wesson Patriot Marksman (stainless forged slide & frame) that was a very good 1911. It had it where it counts, nicely fit, tight lock-up, very good accuracy. The Patriot is their higher end model and is equal to a Kimber custom classic or Springfield loaded IMO.

The parts kit 1911's are a pile of junk. Any of the Filipino made 1911's should be approached with caution (Charles Daley, RIA). I would't get one (except to experiment on) because for another $100 or so you can get a Springfield Mil-Spec or WWII model. I don't have any experience with the Para-Ordinance, though enough people have claimed issues with them to make me wary.
 
Recently made Kimbers seem to have "steel" parts break in two at random for no apparent reason.
Click to expand...

With about the same frequency as Glocks exploding. (To wit, it happens a lot more frequently on the errornet than elsewhere. ;) )

Correlate the number of actual busted thumb safeties/slide stops/et cetera with the blue zillion Kimbers out there, and the rate gets more reasonable. I can tell you that I've seen more Springfields with issues than I have Kimbers over the last few years, but only by a slight margin.

The main annoyance with Kimber is the way they've successfully marketed themselves to the status-conscious as some kind of uberbrand.

Customer A: "Can you order me a Kimber Gold Match?"
Counter Flunky: "Certainly, sir. By the way, if you'd like to see something similar that I have in stock, I have a beautiful pre-'70 Gold Cup here..."
Customer A: "I'd rather stick with higher-end guns."

Customer B: "I need a magazine for my Kimber Stainless Custom II."
Counter Flunky: "Sure thing, sir; 1911 mags are right over here. I have Wilson, McCormick, Baer, factory Kimber..."
Customer B: "I think I'd prefer the factory mag, rather than the aftermarket."
Counter Flunky: (Thinking: "Sure thing, sir; one cheap mag comin' right up.")

The latter customer was astonished to find that he could get a Factory Kimber Magazine cheaper than that aftermarket junk. :scrutiny:
 
Well, yeah, I used "seems" insetad of "empirically proven" for a reason. There sure SEEMED to be a colosssal flood of Kimber broken gun bitching sometime around when the went to the Series II guns.

:confused:

Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I wanna see pictures.
Click to expand...

Yeah, shocked me too. You can read about it here: http://www.pistolsmith.com/viewtopic.php?t=17143

Going from that to my Yost "Retro-Rocket" 10mm was quite a shock to the system, however. :scrutiny: :D
 
My 1911 expierience is limited to 5

AO 10mm
Kimber 10mm
Springer mil-spec operator
DW Ausi
DW dave pruit

Of the 5 they rate as follows. 1-5 scale, 1=bad 5=great

Reliability:
1. Kimber
2. Springer
3. DW ausi
4. DW dave pruit
5. AO 10mm

Fit/finsh
1. AO 10mm
2. DW ausi
3. springer
4. DW dave pruit
5. Kimber

Accuracy:
1. Spinger
2. Kimber
3. AO 10mm
4. DW dave pruit
5. DW ausi

Parts replaced due to problems:
1. kimber
2. springer
5. AO, and the two DWs (0 parts)

The Kimber was a POS, it was sent back to kimber 3 times while it was mine, bad barrels, sights fell off, internals just disintegrated, finally refund given by dealer. Will never own another kimber as long as I live.

The DWs arent mine, been very realiable with some FTFs w/ HP ammo in the ausi, will feed ball all day long though. Thinking about buy one.

The operator will feed anything I put in it, but had FTE issues and busted the slide lock. I only wish they made it in 10mm

The AO, pre kahr, never stopped once, needed no parts replaced, but wasnt very accurate. I sold it to get the Kimber and wish I had it back.
 
DWA "1911"

Lemme see if I can get this info out without a firestorm...

The lower-priced DWA 1911-pattern guns are assembled on Essex Arms
investment cast slides and frames. The 10mm...Razorback, I
believe...is steel, but the Patriots are castings. Got that straight from
Gary Whipple up at Essex about 18 months ago.

Essex frames and slides have come a long way since the days of supplying
Thompson and Safari Arms with out-of-spec slides and frames that used to drive me over the top tryin' to get aftermarket and GI parts to fit when the OEM stuff disintegrated...and I've built a couple of pretty nice pistols
on the slide/frame sets...but they're still castings.

As we all know, a GOOD casting can be very good...but even a B-grade casting isn't gonna hold up to hard use nearly as well or as long as a
machined steel part. In that, the slides seem to be more prone to
premature failure than the frames.

Just For ya'lls information...

Tuner
 
Plenty of food for thought. I looked at two RIAs and in the shop they seemed good. all the safeties/disconnectors worked, and the slide action was very smooth.

On two occasions, the counter person tried to sell me a Kimber.
 
Ruger Only

Tamara said:

As witnessed by the phrase "Ruger Only!" so often found in reloading manuals.
___________________

Oh yeah. I know a guy who has been doin' his level best to destroy a
Super Blackhawk for nigh on 15 years with handloads that would probably rival C-4 for peak pressures...so far without success. I can't speak for their
self-shuckers, but I'm about convinced that ya can't hurt the revolvers with
dynamite.

I won't go into what I've put their M-77 rifles through for fear that you'll
all think I'm suicidal...:p

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Tuner, you do mean Dan Wesson Firearms don't you? I've never heard them referred to as "DWA".

In any case you are the second person that I've heard that Essex stuff from. DW does use cast frames and slides for its lower cost models such as the "Pointman". However, their Patriot series uses forgings obtained from S&W. Here's their description of the Patriot:

"Full size 5â€, series 70 pistol with forged frame and forged round top slide. Bead blasted matte finish on frame, slide top, and radius, with satin brushed polished finish on sides of slide. Forged 1 piece stainless steel Match barrel, fitted bushing and link . Bo-Mar style adjustable rear sight, dovetail front target sight, Match grade “K†trigger & sear, commander style match hammer, stainless steel high ride beavertail, Extended thumb safety and standard slide release and a one piece full length guide rod. Lowered and relieved ejection port, beveled magazine well and exotic AAA Cocobolo hardwood grips. Available in stainless steel with stainless small parts.

"The Dan Wesson Patriot series 1911s are targeted in our indoor shooting tunnel before shipping. While we only have 50' indoors, no Patriot is shipped unless it shoots 1.25" or better. The current average is still around 0.8". We do not offer a guaranty (complete with small print), but we consider Patriot Proofing a simple display of our confidence in our product." www.danwessonfirearms.com.

I own a number of 1911's including Wilson, Kimber, Springer Pro, Colt etc and I think the DW Patriot series are very good guns for the money.
 
Patriot/Pointman

Ah! You're probably right Siggy. I get those "Ps" mixed up when I get
to DWA...They used to have that logo...Dan Wesson Arms...on their
double action revolvers.

FWIW, I've seen very few DWA 1911s in this area, and mainly on dealer's
shelves. Just not much market for'em around here...or at least that's the
rumor.

Luck!

Tuner
 
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