Who makes the worst 1911?

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I think DWA went out of business and was bought by the current owner of Dan Wesson Firearms a few years ago who has really turned that company around trying to get back to the quality of the original DW handguns. DW also reportedly has great customer service and the president, Bob Serva, also posts on the 1911 forum. Too bad DW gets an undeserved bad rep from mixing up names, kinda like Rock River with Rock Island.
 
DWA/DWF

I think DWA went out of business and was bought by the current owner of Dan Wesson Firearms a few years ago who has really turned that company around trying to get back to the quality of the original DW handguns.

Ahhhh! I thought they'd retained the original moniker. That's what I get for keepin' my nose buried in old GI pistols and pre-Series 70 Colts. I
don't get out much these days...Ain't gettin' old a pisser though?:rolleyes:

Ah stands corrected, suh.

Colonel Tunah
 
everything but SA i consider to be either potential or actual crap....i have only ever had 1(one) bad SA ... a 3" UCL...
i could tell you horror stories of even the high end stuff and how bad they can be...
i had a longslide AMT that i put 1,000s of rounds thru with 0 problems , very very accurate as well...
i have worked on $2,000.00+ guns that the factories couldn't get right and made them work...
i've even had llammas that were good to great , and of course the famous star PD's...

para's are puke , AO's are ****. if i write a list of crappy 1911's i will be here for awhile...
the SA's have been the most consistant for quality i've seen in years ...(scary, huh ?)
 
Most people would be happier if they'd just realize that they're all broken right out of the box. Some just take less fixin' than others. ;)
 
With the introduction of the Springfield GI model and it's low price, I don't think there's much of a reason to buy an inferior 1911 anymore, at least from what I have seen on price differences. I could see a market for a cast "loaded" 1911 at the GI price, but the internals have to be good quality and they have to work. Doesn't sound like that's happening with Charles Daly...too bad!

Dan Wesson has a confusing array of models with cast slides,frames, forged and combinations of cast and forged. IMHO, they need to decide which segment of the market they wish to compete in and go forward.
It's not wise to offer different quality levels with the same brand name.
That's not to be confused with the Springfields and Kimbers which offer the same quality slide/frame, for example, and the price increases as you add features or more handfitting...for Springfield anyway.
 
Dan Wessons are definately not on par with the other 1911 makers in that price range based on my experience. Of the four I have owned, 100% did not work out of the box. Of those four I cannot believe that three of them were even test fired more than the one round need for whatever-state it is that requires a shell casing to go with the gun. Mind you all four of mine were 10mm, and I am very aware that making a 10mm work takes a little more effort than a 45 (wonder how their 38 Supers and 9mms run?). For a little recap of what I have posted here before:

DW1: Razorback
Factory ammo sticks in chamber at around 90% into battery, with slide having to be driven open to clear them
Trigger is probably 8lbs, and feels like gravel
DW "fixes" it, rounds still stick but slide opens without a mallet
Trigger still 8lbs
Nice long scratch on trigger guard when it came back
Will go to my smith when I get a chance

DW2: Pointman 10mm
Last round in magazine fails to extract, just lays on top of mag
Rounds either extract and bounce of shooter's forehead or slide
Won't feed much of anything
Gunsmith puts in proper long ejector that actually touches brass
Gunsmith tunes extractor
Your's truly polishes feed ramp
Gun runs 100% until sold and reportedly still runs 100%

DW3: Patriot 10mm Experimental
Cases hang in extractor claw requiring pliers to remove
Extractor pin works way out of top of slide during first few mags
Gunsmith tweaks extractor and replaces solid pin
Gun runs 100%

DW4: PT-C 10mm Bobtail
FTF on nearly every round
Gunsmith has fixed but I have not had time to go get it or hear his report
Sights suck but that isn't DWs fault (other than perhaps bad taste)

So I would say DW is about where Tuner said he heard they were. If I did not have this horrible addiction to 10mm 1911s, I would not own one.

;)

GR
 
Last week, I picked up a new Pointman Minor (PM3-P). It has a cast frame, grip safety, and thumb safety. It has a forged slide and extractor. The sear, disconnector, hammer, mag release, slide stop, and firing pin retainer are MIM, the (flat) MSH is plastic, and the hammer strut is stamped.

It came with what looks like a Metalform mag, but that mag was a piece of junk - the follower is oversize and hangs up on the mag sides really badly. I immediately 'retired' the mag and have substituted Colt and Metalform mags for all of the range work so far.

To date, I've put about 600 rounds thru it (Wolf/UMC hardball and 185gr. Golden Saber). Other than the initial issues with the DW mag, it's been running without fail. I have replaced the slidestop with a Ed Brown Hardcore (just because) and will be fitting an Ed Brown thumb safety and arched MSH as well. I have also replaced the firing pin with a King titanium pin that I had laying around, set the tension on the extractor (it was fairly loose but still functional), and polished a little casting flash off the frame here-n-there. The trigger was fairly clean and broke at an (estimated) six pounds or so.

For what I paid for it - I think it's a decent deal. I'd have preferred to spend a little extra and get a Colt 1991 NRM but I just couldn't find one and the $$$ was just burning a hole in my pocket. :) But no way does this qualify as anything close to the worst 1911. It's a decent range gun that in time may prove to be worthy of a carry piece. I may slowly continue to swap out the MIM parts, but I dunno about that, either. If they make it past 5000 rounds, I'm almost of a mind to consider them to be OK....

My Chuckie and my LLama 38 Super were *far* worse than this... :)
 
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Awhile back I bought a NIB Para-Ordnance(steel) P-13 "Jam-o-Matic" although I was originaly going to buy a Colt 1911. The dealer just "happened" to be out of Colts. At that time I had heard nothing but good about Paras so I went for it! What a piece of garbage!!

At no point could I get through a mag of ANYTHING before having FTF's , smokestacks, and just outright jamming! The ammo I used was all new brand name JHP's and ball ammo from Remington & Corbon.

Most times it would FTF on the second round, but definitely on the third round! The pistol was cleaned and lubed prior to firing the first time and a couple times afterwards. I didn't even get through a 100 rounds before I took it back to the dealer. I even switched magazines.

I did finally buy a Colt Combat Commander and never had a problem from day one! When I went to pick my Colt up the dealer asked if I wanted the Para back as it was FIXED! It seems that it had a bad extractor plus a few other items that were bad. I must mention that when I first brought the Para back I was told it was ME not the pistol!

I wouldn't buy or use a Para on a dare! OTOH,I did shoot a Springfield Ultra Compact V-10 two-tone that was fantastic! I thought it handled well and was accurate to boot!
 
Amazing how our own personal experience taint us from one brand to another.

I have 3 Kimbers. All have run perfect out of the box and still function that way. I love them.
I have 4 Para Ordnance guns. By far my favorite of the bunch. The P13 had a few hiccups, easily fixed. (thanks tuner)
I have one Springfield gun. Problematic off and on.:confused: A new extractor fixed most of the problems but still hiccups every once in a while. (mags? dunno, can't pinpoint it)
Had 2 Llamas ( I learn slow...Ok, 1 Llama and a Firestorm:uhoh: ) Both worked fine, just ugly, rough guns, I sold them and the new owner is still putting rounds through them with out a hitch.

I've never owned one, but seen 2 different Wilson guns give fits to their owners at gun school. Wilson doesn't interest me anymore.

Do a search here and on TFL of any one particulat brand and you will find posts both pro and con. We're all tainted in one way or another.

Smoke
 
Going purely by the statistics of which 1911's come into the shop for repair/replacement/factory service the most often, the worst offender for our particular establishment is Kimber.

The main culprit is breakage of parts I would consider low stress, such as thumb and grip safeties, as well as adjustable sight blades. Several series II firing pin related problems that resulted in the pistol not discharging when it needs to, and extractor issues that seemed to come from the use of substandard materials that go out of adjustment rapidly.

Kimber also shares the distiction of the only 1911 that I have ever seen have the hammer shear into two pieces while firing.

On the upside, Kimbers rarely suffer from bad slide to frame, barrel to frame, or barrel to bushing fit, nor any issues with major component (Slide, Frame, BBL) failure, which cannot be said for other 1911 brands. Also, almost all of the above material failures were replaced gratis from Kimber.
Older Kimber's were fine guns, and the frames/slides/bbls seem to be of good quality and fit, but the small parts issues happen too frequently to ignore, and can end up costing the end user a bit more due to the want or need to replace the fire control components with "premium" parts.

I have to agree 100% with Tamara about the exalted status Kimber has managed to achieve in the minds of many consumers. Some of their techniques are less than subtle, such calling their base model "The Custom." People are constantly reciting back advertising copy when passing the Kimber display, and will turn down in distaste the thought of looking at a similarly priced and featured Springer, Colt, Les Baer when looking at a Kimber.

As for Kimber mags, I've seen the same type of reaction when customers find that factory mags retail for less than any after-market variety carried. If it wasn't for the phenomenon that some Kimbers pistols will simply not operate with any other magazine than the factory mag, I would suggest that they adopt S&W's 1911 mag strategy: Repackage a Wilson combat magazine and mark it up 75%.
 
Cthulhu, I happen to be a well-satisfied Kimber owner but I agree with you. Kimber is a marketing mastermind and many unsuspecting souls believe anything Kimber says. Kimber's quality seems to go in runs, sometimes good, sometimes bad, but generally their slides/frames and barrels are very good and their small parts are not, including their mags. Still, I have an early TLE that has been a great performer and I didn't change anything on it but the grips and MSH. If I used it as a primary carry I would swap out all the mim, but it shoots great and hasn't given me one bit of trouble so I'm leaving it as is for now.
 
Kimber Magazines

Howdy Siggyboy...Couldn't help but notice your reference to Kimber's OEM
magazines.

The mags are supplied by Metalform, and are as good as any...except for the springs...and that's usually where the problem lies with a magazine.
If they would simply upgrade to the Wolff 11-pound springs...available
from Metalform...they could solve 98% of the magazine-related malfunctions
that their pistols have, assuming that they stick with 7-round mags with flat, dimpled followers.

Cheers!

Tuner
 
Howdy! Metalforms actually came with my Springer Pro I believe...the base pad blew off one and the spring came flying out. I generally only use Chip McCormick 8 round Powermags and Wilson mags. Never had a problem with any of them and got them for good prices at Natchez.
 
In da Pond

Dave said:

The worst 1911? That would be the one you just sold, traded, or threw in the pond.

Dang it! I KNEW you had spies watchin' me!:D

Siggyboy...Betcha ya didn't know that Metalform makes magazines for
Ol' Chip too...didja?

Once in a while...a bad one slips through the cracks.

Luck!

Tuner
 
I've seen a couple of negative responses about RIA 1911's.......where is all this coming from?

I picked up a RIA from gunbroker.com for less than $300, and it's a great pistol! It's a budget gun, so there are a few things that could stand upgrading, but it works great. If you are after a "G.I." .45, it's hard to beat.

ANM
 
When 1911s go Bad

As others have noted, a lot of problems attributed to 1911s are mag problems.

In my humble fleet of 1911s (Colt's; S&W, Springfield, Ithaca, US&S, Remington, Remington-UMC and a Kimber I think there have been a couple of brands of mags that have worked predictably well.

The Wilsons work ok, but cost about 2.5 times as much a McCormick Shooting Stars which work as well for me as Wilsons. Most 7 round mags work ok. The surprise however was Meggar Mags.

CDNN had them on sale a while back ($4.99 for 8 round IIRC) and I bought a bunch... too good a deal to pass up. I was amazed at how well these mags work... heavier spring than most (which may make them work better) and very well made. I wish I had bought 50 instead of the 30 I did buy... oh well.....

V/r

Chuck
 
I've only got experience with two 1911's. I've got a Kimber series 1 and a Charles Daly.

Kimber has run like a clock since I've had it.

Daly would either FTF or FTE (or both) at least once in every mag when it was new. $30 of gunsmith tweaking (He's my friend, he works cheap) and Wilson mags and it too runs like a clock. An ugly clock with horrible fit & finish, but a good running clock. ;)


quote:
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
AMT was wildly inconsistent at making guns, but I actually have shot one that worked
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Extraordinary claims require extraordinary proof. I wanna see pictures.
Click to expand...

I don't have any pictures , but.......

I apparently have the only properly working AMT .45 Backup in existance.

At least that's the impression I get here. Every time the Backup pistol is mentioned, someone explains that it's just a hunk of scrap that will never work. ;)

Dave
 
I have handled four of the high grade($1000+) Kimbers, one mine, three my brother's - two of the four were unacceptable. I might buy a 10mm Kimber, but that would be it. I give them the award for worst expensive 1911.:fire:

I too had one of those AMT Hardballers, which was the first 1911 I bought 20+ years ago. It was sold after requiring a hammer to get it unjammed. :what:

I would consider buying an AMT again(if it was cheap), since I have seemingly developed a fondness for Edsel-like pistol projects. I now know way more about 1911's than I did 20 years ago...and I have bigger hammers, too.:D
 
this is not a good subject for me to post on ...

POS= kimber , para , dwa , AO , kimber , para , 80's colts , kimber , para , llamma , GRs/GSR(?) , AMT , ANY POS OUT OF UTICA , ETC...
good to great = SA , RIA , pre80 colt -post2002 colt , ????e & Weasel , wilson , baer , brown ,misc others ...
had an AMT longslide that was absolutely reliable (and made a 220 yd hit on a soda can with it from a sitting position) ...
most 1911s post WW2 are little better than junk ...
with the exception of SA S&W Colt and W< B < B they all require serious help to be reliable and user friendly...
 
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