I agree with GRD. Boys will be boys (even at 23 year old). Throwing stuff at cars was stupid in the first degree, and they should have been dealt with by the police....or their Fathers (who more than likely woulda delivered a big can a wup a...) on them. It's not like a bunch of gangbangers had the guy cornered. He had many other options. This is nearly as sick as the guy who got shot a couple of weeks ago (while walking his three year old to school) for yelling at a driver to slow down. I've had similar things happen to me in the past, and have chased more than one kid down to give him a brief lesson in manners (verbally). What the hell is wrong with people? You don't kill young people for doing stupid things. If you did, there would be no old people. The anti-CCW folks here in Ohio will love this one.
Who needs a paintball gun ...
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Andrew Rothman
Member
Well, Your Holiness, tomatoes are pretty harmless, but paint balls are not.
This guy, who went home, got his shotgun, and came back, is clearly in the wrong, but in some circumstances (like the Pittsburgh paintball shooting), being shot at with paint balls DOES pose an imminent danger of GBH.
Matt
I hope that who ever did it is caught and sent away because they are a threat to society. That being said, doing what they were doing is not a whole lot different than going around picking fights. Eventually you are going to F around with the wrong person and pay for it in spades. I do not believe the guy deserved to die but it sounds like it was only a matter of time before they hurt someone or someone hurt them.
outfieldjack
Member
GRD........
You are entiltled to your opinion.... Have you ever been involved with paintballs? Myself (and a number of previous members who have posted here) have.....
Being struck with a paintball is DANGEROUS. Its up to you. IF someone shoots at you out in the open, what are you going to do? They have a range of up to 50 yards..... If there is no cover and you are with your family I would hope you do what was needed to defend them.... Well, at leat I would defend my family.
You are entiltled to your opinion.... Have you ever been involved with paintballs? Myself (and a number of previous members who have posted here) have.....
Being struck with a paintball is DANGEROUS. Its up to you. IF someone shoots at you out in the open, what are you going to do? They have a range of up to 50 yards..... If there is no cover and you are with your family I would hope you do what was needed to defend them.... Well, at leat I would defend my family.
Yes, I've played paintball. I even have a gun myself. I've been hit in the head w/o protection and had all the welts and everything. We must have very different opinions of what constitutes 'dangerous'.
Just to be sure: if you were standing in a field and someone started hitting you with paintballs, your reaction would be to kill them. Is that right?
- Gabe
Just to be sure: if you were standing in a field and someone started hitting you with paintballs, your reaction would be to kill them. Is that right?
- Gabe
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
people have been blinded and deafened from being hit with a paintball, yet you dont think thats 'dangerous'? 
Penforhire
Member
Hey Vitamin G, you must have a force-feeder to get 15 balls per second, based on gravity acceleration and the diameter of the balls. Gravity feed isn't so reliable above 12 bps.
I owned a paintball field (indoor & outdoor) in the late 1980's and worked on early designs for semiauto conversion of pump Sheridan PGP's. If you like the current Autococker designs, say hey to me & Glenn Palmer (and Bud Orr of course).
Anyway, I view being shot with a paintball marker in the same category as a fist fight, or someone throwing small rocks at me. If that means lethal force then have at it, but unless the balls are frozen and the velocity is pumped up (hard to get lots of high velocity shots with CO2 due to Joule-Thomson cooling, easier with compressed air or nitrogen), and the distance is close, no way am I responding with gun fire. Yes, 300 FPS is fast enough to put out an eye or produce a bleeding welt at point blank range.
Might be a different story if someone got up close to me, aimed at my unprotected head, and dumped a full-auto load at me. But for shooting my car? All that's called for is a heads-up to the cops or an @ss-whipping, depending on mood and maturity.
I owned a paintball field (indoor & outdoor) in the late 1980's and worked on early designs for semiauto conversion of pump Sheridan PGP's. If you like the current Autococker designs, say hey to me & Glenn Palmer (and Bud Orr of course).
Anyway, I view being shot with a paintball marker in the same category as a fist fight, or someone throwing small rocks at me. If that means lethal force then have at it, but unless the balls are frozen and the velocity is pumped up (hard to get lots of high velocity shots with CO2 due to Joule-Thomson cooling, easier with compressed air or nitrogen), and the distance is close, no way am I responding with gun fire. Yes, 300 FPS is fast enough to put out an eye or produce a bleeding welt at point blank range.
Might be a different story if someone got up close to me, aimed at my unprotected head, and dumped a full-auto load at me. But for shooting my car? All that's called for is a heads-up to the cops or an @ss-whipping, depending on mood and maturity.
spacemanspiff
Senior Member
suppose you have the windows rolled down and a paintball that should have just hit the body of your car has impacted upon your head. or do you think the pranksters were sitting there saying 'no wait, dont shoot, we might hurt someone, wait for the next car that has its windows rolled up'?
or you have your family in your car and your child has a window rolled down, it hits him/her in the head, knocks him/her out. still not 'dangerous'?
or you have your family in your car and your child has a window rolled down, it hits him/her in the head, knocks him/her out. still not 'dangerous'?
outfieldjack
Member
GRD.........
I never said I'd "kill" someone if they were shooting at me or my family with a paintball gun. I said I'd DEFEND myself with whatever means necessary. Especially if I was with my wife or our soon-to-be daughter. What do you think a paintball would do to a NEW BORN BABY?!?!?!?!
A paintball can be lethal..... what if one exploded my eye out, what if I was yawning and it tore a hole in my windpipe, etc......
I'm not saying people who shoot at people with paintball guns need to be killed, but thay sure as heck better be prepared for someone like me who is going to take WHATEVER means necessary to protect himself and family. If that mean RETURNING fire, then so be it.
You don't seem to understand that FACT that someone has already DECIDED to put YOU in thier CROSSHAIRS and pull the TRIGGER. When they make that decision, they BETTER be prepared for the consequences.....
I never said I'd "kill" someone if they were shooting at me or my family with a paintball gun. I said I'd DEFEND myself with whatever means necessary. Especially if I was with my wife or our soon-to-be daughter. What do you think a paintball would do to a NEW BORN BABY?!?!?!?!
A paintball can be lethal..... what if one exploded my eye out, what if I was yawning and it tore a hole in my windpipe, etc......
I'm not saying people who shoot at people with paintball guns need to be killed, but thay sure as heck better be prepared for someone like me who is going to take WHATEVER means necessary to protect himself and family. If that mean RETURNING fire, then so be it.
You don't seem to understand that FACT that someone has already DECIDED to put YOU in thier CROSSHAIRS and pull the TRIGGER. When they make that decision, they BETTER be prepared for the consequences.....
Daniel T
Member
Now that's some rationalization on the level I'd expect from antis. Exploded your eye out? Paintballs are loaded with paint, not HE. Maybe you could supply an example of a paintball tearing a hole in someone's windpipe? Or killing somone at all? More people have been seriously injured by the CO2 cans on paintball guns than the paintballs themselves, so I don't think you're going to have any kind of luck.
outfieldjack
Member
Well......
My point is this..... if I am being "shot at" and cannot take cover, I will return fire.
My point is this..... if I am being "shot at" and cannot take cover, I will return fire.
Outfldjck, and your lovely brother who is apparently coming over to my house to steal my tv and splatter my non existant wife and child (see other paintball thread), I wonder if you realize how detrimental and attitude such as yours is to the RTKBA? You are advocating shooting someone for attacking you with paintballs (estentially a non lethal weapon). I wonder what a moderate would say if he saw this thread. He/she would think the members of this forum (who are generally a pretty sane lot) are "gun nuts" in the most stereotypical sense, i.e. we are actively looking for an excuse to shoot other human beings. I believe strongly in self defense. I believe there is a time and a place for shooting at someone. But that time and place needs to be very clearly defined. For instance what about fist fights? I've fought some men that were sure of a lot more dangerous than an tippmann (paintball MARKER for those in the know). Do I have the right to shoot them? No, I have the right to punch them in the face, i.e. a proportionate response. It is irresponsible (and frickin illegal) to blow someones head off with a shotgun for starting a fistfight. The same goes for paintball MARKERS. Advocating a lethal response for such acts makes us (gunowners) look like we are actively pursuing an escalation of confrontation to the general public, not an image we want. One last thing: paintballs WILL take your eye out. They will not rip out your throat. They will not maim you. Unless you get hit in the eye you will pretty much be okay. How do I know this? Because I play. I have been shot at close range. I have been shot at close range (~3 ft) in the throat. I have been shot at close range in the throat multiple times by an automag RT (RT's are one of the nasty ones previously mentioned that spit out 10+ sec) It hurt. A LOT. But I am still here. My throat is the same as it was. And I didn't resort to slaughtering the other team with buckshot.
About the fist fight thing what about a 105 pound woman against a 220 pound man. Should she just take a severe beating safe in the knowledge that it would be wrong to shoot him? What about a stun gun? Really your chances of being killed by one are slim to none just take the juice and smile. My point is there are instances outside of the examples offered where lethal force is appropriate.
mattd
Member
Shooting people(most likely,just stupid kids) just for paintballs would give gun owners a bad name. I was almost a victim of a paintball drive by while I was riding my Bike and they shot at my friend on the other side of the street and It does not sound like a gun shot we just rode away fast. And some times its best to run away and this is one of them. Besides, all it leaves is a little bruise and hurts. Cops use paintball guns on crowds, does that mean I get to whip out a M-16 and shoot the cop to protect the people in the crowd? I think not.
Gee, I don't know, raise a welt maybe?
<through the bullhorn> "Put down the Soldier of Fortune and step away slowly. "
Remind me never to shoot at you with my rubber-band gun, jack. A paintball down your windpipe.
This has gone beyond ridiculous to the truly odd...and it's racing towards insane.
- Gabe
Powderman
Member
Thoughts to consider:
1. Is the threat REAL?
Sure, the paintballs are flying.
2. Does the threat place you in IMMINENT DANGER of DEATH or GRAVE BODILY INJURY?
Try convincing a jury on that one.
3. Is there any other action that you could have taken, other than taking a human life?
Whatever happened to just walking away? Or running away? Or driving away?
Yep, the paintballers would (in the State of Washington) be arrested and charged with: 1. Reckless endangerment, 2. Malicious mischief, 3. Assault 4th degree (for welts) Assault 3rd degree (for serious cuts) Aggravated Assault (if the paintballing put you in a position to seriously injure yourself or someone else).
However, if I come to a call and find you there standing above the body of a paintballer with a firearm, stating that you shot because he was throwing paintballs in your direction, I would place you under arrest, read you the Miranda warning, and charge you with Murder.
Do the math--it isn't hard to figure out.
If you carry a firearm and have the intent to shoot someone for paintballing you, do us all a favor. Sell your guns and move somewhere else. Your frame of mind is that you are looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
1. Is the threat REAL?
Sure, the paintballs are flying.
2. Does the threat place you in IMMINENT DANGER of DEATH or GRAVE BODILY INJURY?
Try convincing a jury on that one.
3. Is there any other action that you could have taken, other than taking a human life?
Whatever happened to just walking away? Or running away? Or driving away?
Yep, the paintballers would (in the State of Washington) be arrested and charged with: 1. Reckless endangerment, 2. Malicious mischief, 3. Assault 4th degree (for welts) Assault 3rd degree (for serious cuts) Aggravated Assault (if the paintballing put you in a position to seriously injure yourself or someone else).
However, if I come to a call and find you there standing above the body of a paintballer with a firearm, stating that you shot because he was throwing paintballs in your direction, I would place you under arrest, read you the Miranda warning, and charge you with Murder.
Do the math--it isn't hard to figure out.
If you carry a firearm and have the intent to shoot someone for paintballing you, do us all a favor. Sell your guns and move somewhere else. Your frame of mind is that you are looking for an excuse to shoot someone.
Moparmike
Member
GRD, something tells me you dont know much about newborns. If it hits the head or the heart, it could do serious brain damage (enough to kill) or hit the heart area, it could stop the heart. At the very least it would maim the baby much worse that you or me, even if it hit a foot. If it is endangering the baby or killing the baby, you are damned right I will respond with lethal force.
On newer cars, body damage could occur. Hell, on old cars if it hits hard enough. That is $500-$2000 worth of body damage right there. And the responses about the endangering motorists (and not just the ones they hit) are right on the money.
Shooting to kill wasnt necessary. A shot to the sky (with bird shot) would have been plenty.
outfieldjack
Member
For the LAST time.....
I do NOT advocate killing paintballers..... I only advocate protecting yourself.... The guy with the shotgun with which this thread was started was in the WRONG.
My POINT= If people (idiots) decide to attack me or my family with paintball guns (possibly lethal weapons, especially to a newborn) and I CANNOT retreat or take cover, then I will return fire IF the THREAT continues..... Hopefully 1-2 rounds will convince the attackers to retreat, I'm not looking to kill someone..... but I WILL PROTECT MY FAMILY!!!
Those of you who disagree have the right to disagree.... althogh none of you have provided me with what YOU would DO if you, your wife, and NEWBORN were being attacked with paintball guns and had nowhere to take cover....
I do NOT advocate killing paintballers..... I only advocate protecting yourself.... The guy with the shotgun with which this thread was started was in the WRONG.
My POINT= If people (idiots) decide to attack me or my family with paintball guns (possibly lethal weapons, especially to a newborn) and I CANNOT retreat or take cover, then I will return fire IF the THREAT continues..... Hopefully 1-2 rounds will convince the attackers to retreat, I'm not looking to kill someone..... but I WILL PROTECT MY FAMILY!!!
Those of you who disagree have the right to disagree.... althogh none of you have provided me with what YOU would DO if you, your wife, and NEWBORN were being attacked with paintball guns and had nowhere to take cover....
"...althogh none of you have provided me with what YOU would DO if you, your wife, and NEWBORN were being attacked with paintball guns and had nowhere to take cover.... "
In that case (assuming we're on foot and the attack is sustained) then yes, I would shoot them. Not got much to do with the dead Amish kid tho.
In that case (assuming we're on foot and the attack is sustained) then yes, I would shoot them. Not got much to do with the dead Amish kid tho.
synoptic
Member
Actually, if you were in Texas, you do have the right to shoot (assuming you were not the aggressor and taking into account disparity of force and all)
sounds pretty dangerous to me, definitely worth returning fire to keep something like this from happening.
Now, I'm guessing here that those of us who say we would shoot someone for attacking us with a paintball gun mean if the circumstances warranted such action. If a kid fires 2 or 3 times and misses, most of us would run. If he is consistently hitting me and there is no where to run, I'd return fire to stop the threat. If my kids (theoretical, no kids yet) were around and someone was firing wildly in our direction I'd return fire. If it's a friend playing a gag and pops me in the chest, I'd prolly kick his butt, but thats about it. I think you get the picture.
You are free to disagree, but please give us the same respect. In many cases, to return fire would not be against the law, at least not here in Texas, so please don't speak to us as if we were criminals looking for a fight.
Sportcat
Member
synoptic,
Well said!
-Sportcat
Well said!
-Sportcat
mattd
Member
If a pro paintball shooter would address my post about the police, I'd like that.
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