Who uses 147gr JHP 9mm as a self defense round?

[Nushif]

Me!Me!

I just usually go to the LGS and buy whatever 9mm Golden Sabre they have.
My current crop is 147 grain, I think.

I'm of the opinion that any premium round will do the trick, so I'm not super choosy.

 

[Don357]

With me it really depends on which one of my 9mm's I'm carrying at the time. For my short barreled Kel-Tec P-11 I use 124gr Federal Hydra-Shoks and for my full size TZ-99 I use Winchester White Box 147gr JHP's. However I would not hesitate to use either cartridge in either gun. All this ...weight+velocity+bullet design= A HEADACHE!!!! Just practice, practice, practice, and learn to put your bullet where YOU want/need it, and it dosen't matter what caliber, weight, velocity, or design you have. Just my $.02.

 

[McCall911]

I've used 147 grain JHP's as a SD round. In fact I still have some in one of my 9mm's (either the one in the drawer underneath my elbow right now or the one beside my bed. Forget which.)
Some of the first 147 grain JHP's weren't much to write home about IIRC. I'm pretty confident that has changed by now.

 

[benEzra]

I think 147gr got a bad reputation because the original 147's were loaded very light so as to be subsonic. I suppose the assumption was that because the "cool operators" were using 147 subsonics in suppressed guns, that must make them awesome for general use. 9mm is not a high-energy round to start with, so downloading the round to lower velocities and energies puts it in rather feeble territory.

I believe that fad went away quickly---failure to expand was endemic and the resulting overpenetration and lack of incapacitation was problematic---but the reputation stuck.

Personally, I like +P 115gr and 124gr loads, but I'd be OK with a +P 147gr as well if that were the only choice. I don't personally see the point, though, as 124gr can offer as much penetration as you want, with somewhat less recoil than hot-loaded 147's and higher velocity/energy.

 

[gofastman]

I just ordered 200rds of 147gr+P HST ammo.

I see no reason to not use +P ammo. In my completely uninformed opinion, I would venture to say most large ammo mfg's probably load their +P stuff to the very top of SAAMI max pressure for standard pressure rounds to avoid a lawsuit from some stupid (or ignorant) person blowing their gun up.

 

[Atticus the Finch]

I didn't read every single post so I'm sorry if someone already said this.

The 9mm was developed and optimized to be fired as 115g-124g. Once you start getting heavier and slower, you're losing the velocity needed in order to get that standard 12 inches of penetration. The same goes for lighter .45's. I use 124g +p personally.

 

[gofastman]

Once you start getting heavier and slower, you're losing the velocity needed in order to get that standard 12 inches of penetration

ummm, no :banghead:

straight from the horse's mouth:
http://www.winchester.com/SiteCollectionDocuments/flash-SWFs/law_bullit.swf

heck, if we are strictly talking about penetration, look at the 147gr 9mm vs the 357 SIG (super fast 9mm 125gr bullet)

 

[Jeff82]

The 9mm was developed and optimized to be fired as 115g-124g. Once you start getting heavier and slower, you're losing the velocity needed in order to get that standard 12 inches of penetration. The same goes for lighter .45's.

Wrong in just about everything you said.

 

[kopcicle]

I know I'm not going to surprise many with this post .

If lighter a longer barell helps
If heaver the recoil impluse is spread over a longer period of time .
Heavier slower projectiiles will stay in the tube longer and be subjected to muzzle flip a bit more than lighter rounds . The lghter faster rounds print low , the heavier slower rounds high .
opinion:
115 is nearly silly light
124(5) is still a bit on the light side but Mas Ayoob went to a lot of trouble to document it's effect .
147 is nearly too heavy but recent (to me anyway) advances in bullet construction make it a fair choice .
How come no one has attempted to popularise a 135 ?
It's just words folks , and I do not cary a 9mm for defense (and never will) .
I do not use 185's or 200's in my .45. I don't like the recoil . I don't like where they print . I don't like the muzzle blast and my weapon somtimes refuses to feed , eject and occasionally locks up in recoil .
Summary:
Every bore and barell length has a sweet spot for velocity and bullet weight .
Again I wonder if someone went to the dtrouble of developing a 135gr would anyone buy it ?

Ok I'm sick of me too have a good thread

~kop

 

[rellascout]

Winchester had a very popular 127 +p+ round.

 

[mbruce]

I bought a few boxes of Winchester Ranger SXT 147gr after getting input from NG...

I know a member post a comparable reloading recipe for 9mm +p+ in the reloading forum....just a FYI in case your wondering how to still get that +p+ load.

 

[HoosierQ]

Got 18 of 'em loaded into my Glock 17 at bedside. They feed just fine for me.

 

[NG VI]

The 9mm was developed and optimized to be fired as 115g-124g. Once you start getting heavier and slower, you're losing the velocity needed in order to get that standard 12 inches of penetration.

Yeah, you lose velocity, which is helpful in penetration. However, you are gaining in mass, which matters most in generating inertia, one of the biggest factors in gaining penetration.

 

[blue_ridge]

There is a lot of expertise out there supporting high velocity 9mm as the most effective version. I'd go 115gr. +P so long as it shot accurately and reliably in my specific weapon. If 147's shoot noticeably better, then they would be the easy choice.

 

[NG VI]

Yeah a lot of old expertise.

The 9mm loads of 2011 are not the same as the 9mm loads of 1991. It's almost a new game as far as performance of the heavyweights goes, and the lighter bullets just haven't gained as much out of the advances as the heavies.

 

[blue_ridge]

Yeah a lot of old expertise.

The 9mm loads of 2011 are not the same as the 9mm loads of 1991. It's almost a new game as far as performance of the heavyweights goes, and the lighter bullets just haven't gained as much out of the advances as the heavies.

Care to support this with facts? I mean, what you say sounds interesting, but it would be nice to see some numbers or an article that explains your line of thinking. The 115 +P has been well documented, like you say, for a long time. So what gains in 147 gr loads have erased the higher velocity advantage, as you contend? I have no problem changing my hand loads if there is a better alternative.

 

[TheOhioan]

I carry 147 grain HST everyday, I think it is a great round and the stats I have seen make me very happy with that load.

 

[Lonestar49]

We agree - Wincherster Ranger law enforcement

I have 500 Winchester SXT's in 147 gr. and I have no issues with using them. Traded a Countersniper scope for them.

...

Same here, horde the stuff, as it, and some of the FMJ Ranger I use in my Sig P229n/r 40's is the most consistent, accurate, cleanest burning, ammo I have ever used or seen, picking up the brass and it looks brand new, rdy to re-load in both 9mm and 40 S&W

I like it because I believe in weight/inertia and it shoots, recoil wise, no different, maybe a tad less than any of the 115gr or 124gr FMJ so the feel is the same.

I use it in both my Sig P229R CT 9mm and P228n/r 9mm - SXT 147gr JHP's

When I bought it, IIRC, it was around 36 bucks per 50 in 180gr 40cal and 31 bucks per 50 9mm, both JHP

Not the best price, but "it was there, available".. a long while back




Ls

 

[NG VI]

Blue Ridge, back when ammunition companies started to put some real thought into JHP design, higher velocity was the only game in town to ensure that a bullet would expand. Back then, a +P or +P+ 115 or 124 grain was really the only way to get the performance out of the bullet people wanted. The only way to get some expansion, you know. Well the 147s of today, namely the Ranger-T and HST (pretty sure others like Winchester's PDX stuff does this as well) is designed in such a way that after a realistic point velocity isn't what's driving bullet expansion.

The newer 147s have the advantage over the newer 115 and 124 grain bullets because they are just as good at expanding, but they have more material to work with in the process. They produce more momentum, so they can be designed to expand to a wider degree than a comparable lightweight bullet without worrying about a lack of penetration through resistance. Resistance is what makes a JHP penetrate less than a comparable load in the same caliber with an FMJ bullet. Momentum can help overcome it and assist in getting an acceptable amount of penetration.

The 115s and especially 124s being made now are no slouches, far from it, but the upper hand they used to have with their higher velocity just doesn't matter like it used to. The advantages of more bullet mass is now, thanks to the wonders of modern design and industry, more useful.

 

[CZ57]

Low tech, but one of the best penetrating bullets around is the standard Remington 124 gr. JHP. I load them to +P to get the expansion I want and really couldn't be persuaded to change.

 

[Myles]

I like Remington 124gr. +P JHP, and Federal HydraShok 147gr. +P+. I keep a few magazines of each loaded. I actually prefer the Remington for consistent accuracy. The Federal is no slouch, just more expensive to find any more to practice with, so I horde what I have. Both are very tough to come by in the original loadings. (Late 80's, early 90's)

 

[blue_ridge]

NG_VI, thanks. however, I was looking for some numbers, gelatin results, police shooting records etc. Interstingly enough, Wikipedia actually shows some info, including two terms I had never heard of. Marshall and Sanow's One Shot Stop rating (OSS) and Average Incapacitation Time (AIT), FWIW.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/9x19mm_Parabellum

 

[NG VI]

Yeah I tend to go with hard things like penetration and expansion, the Marshall and Sanow books were interesting reads but realistically they are kind of meaningless, since they only compare gunshot wounds in very specific cases. I mean, they don't compare results in incidents where the person was shot more than once. Shooting someone twice or more is kind of to be expected if someone is doing something so bad you have to shoot them to get them to stop.

 

[Dean1818]

Here In Texas.... the grand jury would be asking why you didn't shoot the BG with a bigger caliber

 

[Brasso]

I carry the 147gr HST. I would be happy with a 124+p loading as far as terminal performance is concerned, but the 147's have a milder recoil impulse to me, and I prefer them for that.