Why 20rd Rifle Ammo, 50 Rd pistol/rimfire standard?

[Redlg155]

Just curious, does anyone know why rifle ammo is packaged in 20rd boxes and pistol/rimfire ammo in 50 Rd boxes? Who started this standard?

It seems that our military weapons designers may have thought of this when designing the magazine capacity for the M14 and early M16 mags.

Things were great until the advent of the 30 rd mag. Now you have to buy 3 boxes to fill 2 mags without having loose rounds. Of course now major pistol ammo manufacturers have come out with the 25rd box of premium ammo. That's great for my Glock 43, not so great for a Glock 17.

 

[Panzerschwein]

Probably just because it's a convenient size of box and doesn't cost so much if someone just wants to buy one box.

 

[M-Cameron]

well 20 rounds for rifle ammo will give you one magazine and a reload in most military rifles up until the 1950s.....

50 rounds for pistol ammo is probably just a convenient number........most people can pop in and spend $20 for a box of ammo without much hassle.

buying them in boxes of 10 would be a pain, and buying them in boxes of 100+ could be expensive if you dont plan to shoot often.

 

[ilbob]

My guess is the two posters who answered your question have covered at least most of the reasons. The other thing is that there is a limited size and weight range that more or less standardized packaging machines can deal with and they probably could not deal well with 50 round boxes of most rifle cartridges. It is just more cost effective to have one machine that can handle the packaging of multiple calibers.

There is also the issue of carrying a box of 50 rifle shells. It probably would not fit in a pocket and itf it did it would be really heavy and bulky and inconvenient.

 

[WestKentucky]

Figured out by the same guys who designed buffalo bores packaging for 25acp.

 

[yugorpk]

One box fits in one magazine, 4 boxes fit handily in one pocket. Just saying.

 

[TruthTellers]

Figured out by the same guys who designed buffalo bores packaging for 25acp.

lol. Yeah, Buffalo Bore sure could change the way they package their ammo.

 

[mnrivrat]

Because great grandpa figured out years before the end of the 19th century that the size and weight were just right for the cowboys saddle bags , and the count was affordable on their $15 a month salary.

Or maybe that's as high as the people who packaed them could count ? 10 fingures and 10 toes = 1 box rifle ammo.

The edjudacated could cyfer and count to 50 so they did the pistol packing (mostly woman) , and that's where the term pistol packing mama came from .

 

[kBob]

Cannon Cocker,

How many rounds of 155mm projo on a banded pallet at the depot? Why?

People want standardization in that they handle and have to keep track of.

Why do men's shirts button on one side and women's the other? The reasons they supposedly did make no sense today but we keep on doing it that way.

The Spousal Unit and Child Units were listening to Fiddler on the roof Yesterday...."Tradition!"

Now admit it, last night you were sad that you could not greet the new year with a few rounds of WP fuse Time set to go off at high altitude.

-kBob

 

[BSA1]

I think it was a devious plan by ammunition and gun manufacturers to get gun owners to buy more ammunition than they need.

Revolvers traditionally have six round chambers which leaves us with two pesky unfired rounds. Even with 7 and 8 round chambers you are still left with 1 or 2 unfired rounds.

Semi-autos are even worse. The same problem exists with just about all semi-autos. When on the range shooting just three 15 round magazines doesn't make for very long fun. And to avoid having spare rounds left over you need to shoot 3 boxes (150 rounds) of ammunition.

The two exceptions that come to mind are 5 shot J-Frame snubbies and States that mandate 10 round magazines.

It could be the result of packaging for use by retail stores. It might be of interest to know that before World War II stores use to sell individual rounds of ammunition. This was especially important when cash money was hard to come by. It was much easier to buy a few pennies worth of .22's when going rabbit hunting or a quarter for a few rounds to fill all the chambers of revolver or for deer hunting.

I have no idea when selling individual rounds of ammunition fell out of favor. Maybe with the rise of the middle class after W.W.II?

 

[berettaprofessor]

Things were great until the advent of the 30 rd mag. Now you have to buy 3 boxes to fill 2 mags without having loose rounds. Of course now major pistol ammo manufacturers have come out with the 25rd box of premium ammo. That's great for my Glock 43, not so great for a Glock 17.

OCD much? I'm the same...always wanting reloads to perfectly equal a 50 round box...but I guess the better question is that they had to standardize somewhere...so why not 50 rounds and 20 rounds? At least it lets us compare ammo prices without having to calculate a price/round for every single box.

 

[gspn]

Things were great until the advent of the 30 rd mag. Now you have to buy 3 boxes to fill 2 mags without having loose rounds. Of course now major pistol ammo manufacturers have come out with the 25rd box of premium ammo. That's great for my Glock 43, not so great for a Glock 17.

Who cares...the bigger question is "Why are 10 hot dogs in a pack, but buns only come 8 to a pack?"

THAT has a real life impact on me!

 

[oneounceload]

Because those two extra dogs get cut up and put in the mac and cheese (at least it did in college decades ago)

 

[Jim Watson]

There was once a large commercial reloader who packaged .38 Special by the 60.
Ten cylinders full, also the original round count for the PPC.

Kynoch packaged hunting rifle ammunition by the 5; magazine full in a Mauser.

20/50 are convenient sizes and also come out even in a case of 1000.

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Why 20rd Rifle Ammo, 50 Rd pistol/rimfire standard?

I can only guess based on my experience.

By looking at a 20 round .30-30 Winchester box from Winchester and a 50 round .45 ACP box from Federal roughly the same size (roughly 6"x2.75"x1.25") and looking at the pockets on my outdoors and utility clothes, I'd guess that's the most convenient box size for carrying by most consumers of centerfire rifle and centerfire pistol ammo.

50 rimfire cartridges are plenty for hunting or a casual sight check target session and fit in a jeans pocket, although 50 rounds of .22 Mag are more a jacket pocket size.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Added:

In the Sears, Roebuck and Co. 1897 catalog:

in typical rimfires:
.22 BB and CB caps were 100 per box.
.22 Short, Long, Long Rifle were 50 per box.
.22 Extra Long were 100 per box.
.22 Winchester, .41 Short for Remington Derringer, .44 for Winchester '66 rifle were 50 per box.

in typical
centerfire pistol:
.38 S&W, .38 W.C.F. (38-40), .44 W.C.F. (44-40), .45 Colt were 50 per box.

in typical centerfire rifle:
.40-60, .45-60, .45 Winchester 1876 (.45-75), .32-40 Ballard & Marlin, .30 W.C.F., .30 U.S. Army (30-40 Krag), .38-55, .45-70 U.S. Gov't were 20 per box.
.40-85 Ballard, .40-90 Sharp's, .40-110 Express were 10 per box.

So I'm gonna hazard my guess that, over 100 years ago, the ammo box size was settled as what would fit the average hunter's pocket.


BTW, in CMP affiliated vintage and modern matches, I have seen US arsenal ammunition in original 20 round boxes for 5.56mm, 7.62x51mm and .30-06 and in 50 round boxes for .30 Carbine and .45 ACP. Most of the foreign military ammo I have seen has been repackaged (boxed or bagged); what stands out are the original 70 round boxes of 7.62x25mm.

 

[Jim Watson]

what stands out are the original 70 round boxes of 7.62x25mm.

The PPSh box magazine holds 35 rounds, the drum 71.
I see a connection.

 

[medalguy]

Then there's the 10 round boxes of .30 cal M1909 blanks in my collection. Maybe originally for the 1903?

 

[bearman49709]

It could be the result of packaging for use by retail stores. It might be of interest to know that before World War II stores use to sell individual rounds of ammunition. This was especially important when cash money was hard to come by. It was much easier to buy a few pennies worth of .22's when going rabbit hunting or a quarter for a few rounds to fill all the chambers of revolver or for deer hunting.

I have no idea when selling individual rounds of ammunition fell out of favor. Maybe with the rise of the middle class after W.W.II?

In the 1970's almost every place that sold ammo also sold individual rounds.

I could still buy individual rounds in the mid 1990's in some gun shops.

 

[gbran]

Boxes of 50 v 20 for my 30'06 would be pretty big and heavy. Boxes of 25 shotgun shells are big, but not real heavy.

 

[javjacob]

Some of you guys are way to OCD lol. Its not like once you open a box you have to shoot it all or it will go bad or something. Now what bothers me more is rimfire bulk packages that are partially used and not knowing how many rounds are left in it. Do you pour them all out and count them?

 

[Jim Watson]

I weigh loose bulk ammo.

 

[morcey2]

I think they should have used prime numbers, like 19 for rifle rounds and 47 for handguns. That would have kept things entertaining.

 

[JohnKSa]

My guess is that it's related primarily to cost. To support that theory is the fact that even the more expensive pistol ammo is often sold in smaller quantities.

 

[Kaeto]

In the Cap and Ball revolver era ammunition was packaged 6 rounds to the package.

 

[kBob]

gspn and one ounce load made me giggle. I ate a lot of that then as well, sometimes while a group of us were pondering that very question and the answers still came out Mary Anne and Genie....................

As to that grody box of mixed loose ammo on the counter.......there was one in a shop near Ocala Florida with in the last couple of years. About three years back I bought some shotgun slugs from a hunt and peck single round box at a gun show. In the 1970s the WoolCo and TG&Y I shopped in had gold fish bowls of loose ammo in them.

-kBob