Why are .36 cal handguns usually called .38s?

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wbond

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I've been wondering about this for years.

Why are several .36 caliber handguns called .38s?

For example:

.380 ACP

.38 Colt

.38 S&W

.38 Long

.38 Special

.38 Super

Those are all called .38s, but aren't they really .36 caliber?

This has been driving me crazy for 20 years. I can't stand it anymore. Would someone please explain this to me?
 
The first 38 cartridges had heeled bullets, like a 22LR, so the bullet was the same diameter as the case. When they went to bullets that fit inside the case, they designed them with a base that expanded to grab the rifling when fired in the old revolvers. So even though the bullet had shrunk they still called them 38s because they were meant to be fired in 38 guns. As time went on they made the barrels to better fit the new bullets, but kept the name 38.
 
There was a moment of "naming" sanity when the .357 Mag came out.Then they slipped back with the .44 Mag., Since then, new chamberings have been more exact. i.e .357 Sig, 41 Mag, etc. :rolleyes: :D

Dean
 
So, when it comes to American cartridges there is no real "standard" that they are named by. It is all up to the designers. Cartridges like the .38 and .44 are named after their respective outer diameters of the case (the heeled bullets were never loaded into many of the cartridges so named, however that is in fact where the process began). Sometimes they are named for the actual bore size, sometimes for the land size, and sometimes for no other reason than to call it something different than what is out there. Take for example the 480 Ruger, is it a .45? is it a .46? might it be a .475? It's not a .48 nor is the OD of the case a .48

Eurpoean cartridges on the other hand are named for the respective bullet size by the case length in mm. But even that causes confusion, take for example the 7.62x39 and the 5.45x39. Both are chambered for the AK series of rifles (AK47 & AK74) and both have a 39mm case length, but the bodies of the case are different. Upon first glance by name one would assume that the 5.45 is just a necked down version of the 7.62, but in fact it is not.

It is really a pretty interesting topic and volumes have been written about the various cartridges.
 
To XTarHeel:

Quoting XTarHeel: Don't forget my .38-40 which is a .40/10mm diameter.

Sounds like the .38-40 is the original 10mm round. Just for my curiosity, how do the ballistics compare between a .38-40 and a 10mm in handguns of similar barrel lengths?

I've often thought the 10mm would make an ideal brush gun and home defense cartridge with a range that I'd guess would be 150 yards.

For example, I'd like to see one of those nifty Ruger semi-autos in 10mm.

What do you think about that idea?
 
The standard gauges of handgun when they switched over from percussion to fixed ammo needed the larger bullet diameter. I don't know why they started calling them 36 as the bore was always .375 - .380. The original fixed ammo were called outside lubricated, just like griz said, with a heeled bullet, like a current .22 rimfire. The .44s were actually .457 or so in diameter.

The first cartridge that was inside lubricated to my knowledge was the .44 Russian; the Russians demanded a bullet that fit entirely inside the cartridge case with the grease grooves covered. This necessitated the reduction of the bore to .429, the same as the inside of the ctg case. Once this was done, everybody saw the genius behind it and new guns were built for inside lubricated ammo. The older guns still needed a hollow skirt bullet to blow up to groove diameter, even though the bullets were contained inside the cartridge case and looked like modern cartridges.
 
I have a Ruger convertable with 10mm / .38-40 cylinders. I'll have to shoot some similar bullet weights in both and see how they compair. I did buy a Corbin cannalure cutter so I can load jacketed 10mm bullets in .38-40 brass and shoot them in my .38-40 Winchester SRC as well.
 
The standard gauges of handgun when they switched over from percussion to fixed ammo needed the larger bullet diameter. I don't know why they started calling them 36 as the bore was always .375 - .380. The original fixed ammo were called outside lubricated, just like griz said, with a heeled bullet, like a current .22 rimfire. The .44s were actually .457 or so in diameter.
Click to expand...

Land diameter, probably. A lot of those old guns had pretty deep rifling.
 
I always thought it was because the cap and ball revolvers were called .36 caliber and were actually .38 caliber, .375-.380 round ball, and the gun manufacturers didn't want people getting confused!:D
 
Got reversed from cap and ball revolvers. The percussion .36 revovlers took a .380-375" ball (even though the cylinder and bore might be a bit smaller, the ball started out large).

Now the name is .38 and the bullet is about .36.

Just plain cussedness....don't want to make things too simple or everyone would understand it and the clerk behind the counter couldn't dazzle a customer with BS.
 
Onmilo I always thought it was because the cap and ball revolvers were called .36 caliber and were actually .38 caliber, .375-.380 round ball, and the gun manufacturers didn't want people getting confused!
Click to expand...

Well sir, why does 38-40 actually use a .401 round ball? :neener:
 
I thought it was that the old system measured on the groove and the new measured on the land; hence 38 Spl & 357 Mag are identical diameter bullets and the bore diameter is identical, but measured two different ways. Maybe I'm totally wrong but thats the way the old salts I used to work with at the gun store explained it. Simple and made sense to me.
 
Well it seems the .38 WCF used 38 grains of black powder. Of course it was Winchester's first 10mm round...

Confused, are we? :)

Then Marlin came along and called it the .38-40 and upped the powder charge to 40 grains. It was still 10mm, though. Now I'm confused.. :neener:
 
.38 using a .40 cal bullet is probably also land diameter.

.36 cal - .36" lands, .375" grooves
.38 cal - .38" lands, .40" grooves
.44 cal - .44" lands, .454" grooves

See? Just really deep rifling since they didn't have jacketed bullets back then.
 
.38/40 is pretty snappy when it is fired in a rifle and could be considered the equivilent of a 10mm.

The .40/60 Winchester used in the Model 1876 rifle is about the same power level of a .41 magnum. same bullet weight too.
The .40/65 Winchester used in the Model 1886 isn't any more powerful than a well loaded .44 Magnum.

The difference isn't the ballistics but the portability.
 
So, when it comes to American cartridges there is no real "standard" that they are named by. It is all up to the designers.
Click to expand...
Pretty much. .223 is actually .224", I think .222 is as well, along with .22-250, and .223 WSSM. I think they just pick whichever number is close that they think sounds the best.
 
From the Annals of Early American Marketing...

Originally, that range of bullets were called "Thirtysomethings" but when the primary users of the cartridges, ranchers and gunslingers, were polled, most shied away from it; 86% said it sounded "Yuppified", and therefore stuck with tried-and-true rounds. When that name (significantly, decided upon by Ivy Leaguers from Massachusetts) was dropped, and replaced by more masculine names like "Super" and "Special", sales increased significantly.

Interestingly, this was around the time that Dodge City changed it's appellation to it's current name, away from the unpopular "Run-Away-Like-A-Girl City".

********

This Moment in the Annals of Early American Marketing brought to you by The Bush Administration: ("If we tell you a boldfaced lie long enough, you'll come to believe it!")


:D
 
Just wondering why the 36-38 thing bothered you, but the .43 -.44 thing evidently doesn't.

Do have two choices of measurement..groove to goove or land to land, but belive in the lst 100years, cartridges get their names for their sales appeal rather than anything else.

Actually, kind of prefer the ones with real names rahter than just numbers...Zipper, Hornet, Bee, Wasp, Varminter, etc. Was also nice when S&W used names rather than numbers...Military & Police, Outdoorsman, Regulation Police, Chief's Specail, etc.

But just like car names, seems people are more number-minded today..and then want the numbers to mean somthing rather than just being numbers..
 
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