Why are .380s always blowback?

[Nightcrawler]

Is the .380 round not powerful enough to operate a locked breech pistol? I ask because lots of companies that make pistols in 9mm, .40, etc. also make .380s.

In most cases, the .380 is straight blowback. The Berretta 84, for example.

The oddest example of this, though, is the .380 Glock. This model isn't imported to the US, but unlike every other member of the Glock lineup, it's straight blowback.

So my question is why? Is there some advantage to this? Is there something about .380's operating pressures that warrants this? Does it cost less?

 

[Cortland]

Kel-tec's .380 is locked breached.

 

[JohnKSa]

All of Colt's .380 pistols are locked breech.

Govt. .380
Mustang
Mustang +II
Pony

 

[Triad]

The only reason I see

It's probably easier and cheaper to make a blowback pistol.

 

[BluesBear]

Blowback weapons are easier to engineer and cheaper to make.

A blowback pistol is sufficiently strong enough to handle .380acp.

But a .380 also works just fine in a locked breech weapon.

 

[mete]

In the early days of the 380 they weren't sure if blowback was enough so they made various locked breech and delayed blowback types. The colt/browning locking systems are still around , the CZ 24 had a rotating barrel locking system and the great remington M51 had a momentum block system.

 

[ninjalawyer]

I'd guess that it's because the slides of blowback guns are noticeably easier to rack. This can be a big advantage since a relatively high percentage of 380-shooters are women.

 

[Newton]

Blowback guns need meatier springs, and are generally recognized to be more difficult to rack than locked breach designs.

My Makarov is the most difficult gun I own when it comes to racking.

 

[AUTIGER04]

Kel-Tec P3AT 380acp is a "Locked Breech" pistol and a nice little gun to boot.

 

[Penman]

Llama used to make a .380 on the 1911 pattern that was a locked breech.

 

[Obiwan]

Blowback guns are dead simple and reliable

But they need heavier slides and springs than locked breach...which gets prohibitive in more powerful calibers.

For instance...the new CX4 Storm carbine is a blowback ...the extra weight is no big deal in a carbine!

 

[Keith]

I'd guess that it's because the slides of blowback guns are noticeably easier to rack.

Blowback slides are much more difficult to rack! They require a much heavier spring.

Keith

 

[ninjalawyer]

Guess I stand corrected... The only blowback I own is my Bersa, and it's amazingly easy to operate the slide on that thing. Must be more a function of the caliber than the design. Interesting.

 

[Keith]

Yeah, if you compare a .380 blowback with a .380 locked breech (like the Colt), you'll find the Colt much easier to rack.

Keith

 

[Dr.Rob]

Have to agree, the spring in my Pa-63/Ap9 .380 is HUGE compared the one in my Colt Gov't model .380.

 

[Standing Wolf]

Blow-back .380 A.C.P.s generally have fixed barrels, which I believe enhances accuracy.

 

[Scoob]

slightly off topic but...

Could the .380 cartidge be loaded much hotter for use in locked breach designs?

 

[Dr.Rob]

Well scoob... as long as you stay within saami spec.. sure. But there is only so much room in the case. Like 9mm, the 380's case volume varies greatly on brass thickness, primer cup depth etc. IE Starline might hold less than Remington etc. Now before you disagree we are talking about a VERY small case, and pretty high pressures. IE a +P load in a remington (compressed load) might not LOOK like one in another brand of brass. You just don't have much room for error in 380 brass.

This is a well documented problem with 9mm cases. IF you reload the 380 do so with ALL THE SAME BRASS.

PS 380/lead bullets kicks like a mule, IMHO, fixed barrel or locked breech either one.

 

[tiberius]

Blowback slides are much more difficult to rack! They require a much heavier spring.

while true in priciple, I gotta tell ya - if my locked breach P-3AT was any harder to rack, I'd needa tool to do it.

 

[Scoob]

Dr. Rob- Thanks for the heads-up on reloading the .380. I have been curious, having heard that the low operating pressure was related to the blow-back pistols.

 

[PCRCCW]

I used to think fixed barrels would lend to more inherent accuracy too.
I thought wrong..IMO. The only thing that dictates mechanical accuracy is how well the sights line up with the barrel every time the bullet leaves the barrel.
If the slide on a fixed barrel design has any play, which they all do, it will have an effect on accuracy. My CZ83 is a great example of this...very accurate gun.
My CZ's and other guns with locked breech designs are more accurate than the little 83....

Its all having to do with now tight things lock down togethor.

Shoot well

 

[Jim K]

The .380 Frommer pistols (Stop and Baby) were not only locked breech, but long recoil as well. They are complicated and AFAIK, the only long recoil pistols ever made. All Colt .380 pistols are not locked breech; the Model 1908 was a straight blowback, like the Model 1903 Hammerless .32.

Jim

 

[Badger Arms]

Remington Model 51 also a locked breech:

 

[BigG]

The Long and Short of It

All the common small pocket pistol cartridges .25/.32/.380 ACP were designed as a SYSTEM along with their launch platforms by the gun genius John M. Browning in the early years of autoloading pistols.

Each SYSTEM was carefully balanced between bullet weight, velocity, and slide mass to function as a blowback, i.e., only held closed by slide mass and possibly spring tension.

We are talking simplicity and economics here. As in the locked breech designs, JMB had the simplest and most economical answers to the questions. You can see that attested to by the almost universal application of his tilting bbl locking system that is over 100 years old now, first seen in 1897.

The blowback is a little hard to patent since there is little unique about two balanced forces cancelling each other out, but the copyists did not depart too far from the master's basic design.

There have been notable exceptions, like the Savage, the Rem 51, the Frommer Stop and a few more Eastern European designs but the vast majority of pistols chambered for the 3 pissant ACPs have been blowback until recent years where entrepreneurs have adapted the Colt/Browning tipping barrel, designed for more substantial cartridges to the little ACPs. For the most part, you will note that these miniaturized designs also cost a HECK of a lot more for an equal quality locked breech 380 than a traditional blowback. TANSTAAFL

With the advent of the locked pocket ACPs, it was only a matter of time before they wanted more power and chambered them for 9mm Luger. So we've come to the logical end of the evolutionary tunnel, given present technology.