Discussion in 'Rifle Country' started by JO JO, May 29, 2020.
They cost more because....it’s an A Team thing!
I'll play. Let's say Ruger decided to build half a million Mini 14 rifles to get that economy of scale. Let's say that they manage to get the street price down to $500.
How long do you think it's going to take to sell that half a million Mini 14 rifles?
They'd still have half of their inventory left by 2030 I think.
Except that isn't true.
ARs got cheaper than minis before the bullet button.
I do like the Mini 14 and 30. Had to laugh at the comment about throwing brass into the next county. I have never shot a rifle that blows brass as far as the mini can. But, I learned something new that I will read up on. That the mini is over gassed at the factory to ensure reliability and that can effect its accuracy. That is why I love this forum. Always can pick up ideas that can improve one of your weapons.
I just ordered a 5802.
Accurate... That requires some definition. Bug hole groups, nope! Minute of 2 liter at 100, ya it'll do that.
Reliable? The only unreliable thing with minis are the mags. Good factory mag they run and run. If yours doesn't something is broken.
I don't know how many Mini's Walmart had, but when they blew them out at $400 a year or two ago they all disappeared real quick. A sub $500 Mini would sell mighty quick in AR ban states and elsewhere, too, in my opinion.
I don't think it's the gas itself. When people change the size of the gas port bushing, they also usually try and get equal clearances on the gas block, and equal tension on its 4 screws. This is what is supposed to increase the accuracy.
I don't suspect that Ruger is price gouging for ban states, more that M1 style rifles have never been cheap to manufacture. The Garands certainly weren't. M14s have never been cheap, unless you count Norinco doing Norinco stuff in the Canadian market. A $400 Mini back in the 90s would be about a $700 Mini today.
I’ll agree with the statements that a sole-source producer, Ruger, with no competition is a large factor in the high pricing. I, too recall when it was pretty much Colt or Colt, and prices were high for AR’s.
I’ll also agree that the lower manufacturing numbers and in-house production keep it priced rather high, at a cost-per-unit level, in part due to a lack of outsourcing of parts and the economies of scale.
Our office issues lots of Minis; they’re tough, accurate enough for patrol work and easy for even non-rifle oriented personnel to train on, operate and maintain.
The 5.56 practice and .223, duty rounds we issue are identical for both AR and Mini, so the effect-on-target is 100% identical with both rifles due to the same ammo being used.
I have 7 ARs (6 6.56 and a 7.62x39), two mini 14 and a mini 30. I will say that’s after 25 years of personal ownership of a mini and 14 years of daily mini oversight with 60+ out in the field, they will shoot and shoot until the rifling is worn down to a smooth bore... with Ruger factory mags. Aftermarket mini mags are mostly miss, with a few hits, in my experience. The AR is much better in this aspect.
Jam clearing, and it does occasionally happen with both guns, is much easier with a mini. The open top receiver allows for a lot of access... and if it’s a nuclear double feed, planting the solid mini stock into the ground like the Seminole warrior plants his lance in Tallahassee will clear it up... the telescoping stock of an AR can’t take quite as much effort if that’s what’s called for.
For optic mounting: telescopes are OK with the rings of the ranch rifle, but small red dots have to use funky mounts on the mini receiver or an aftermarket hand guard with a rail machined in place. Flat top ARs are way more versatile and mounting optics of all types is a cinch.
Are the mini 14’s “worth” 850 bucks? To me, no. But in Ca, where the only ARs are non-transferable ban-grandfathered guns, temporary mag release work-arounds or are outright illegal, the mini types are about all you can get.
Factory mags, 5.56 brass ammo, cycles when it feels like it, REGARDLESS OF THE GAS BUSHING SIZE, I've tried about 6 different orifices, from .35 to .75.
it's got one of those hot -poo accu-struts, and it's doing better than it ever did, at fifty yards, now I can get most of the shots on a dinner-plate-size target.
I guess we can leave the fact the factory staked front sight was shooting TWO FEET TO THE LEFT, when I got it, out of the discussion, NOT that it gave me much confidence in Ruger's QC paradigm.
But oh, please, regale me, what, precisely, is broken ?
probably already said, but if not, they are not expensive at all. They are actually a good value.
They are not subsidized by communist slave labor, and sold off after obsolescence, made by very inexpensive labor in countries with extremely contrasted exchange rates, or made on ultra efficient automated assembly lines from from a variety of manufacturers not matched in any other industry I can think of, with extreme competitive pressure, and the option to be made by manufacturers not in the industry.
By contrast, they are high priced, and represent a terrible value if you only want a good option to shoot bullets. But they still represent efficient manufacturing of good design.
Mini's are like Walmart competing with Amazon. Where we once were told Walmart was as cheap as it gets, along comes someone else that's rebuild the supply chain, and made things cheaper. Just like Walmart did to the department stores. Just like the department stores did to the outfitters, and catalogers.
You just have to admire a wood stocked rifle and the satin stainless is beautiful.
you'll never win, sometimes there are lemons, and sometimes even good company's don't take care of them. I had a RIA that was at least 5 kinds of defective, and the manufacture blew me off, said I was free to never buy again. The whole world calls me a liar. Rugers customer service sucks too, from the one time I called for a replacement part. My mini is the newer model, that weighs 1.5lb more, most of it in the barrel. It shoots very well, but I have heard the stories aobut the old pencil barrels, and seen their terrible sights.
I have a 580 series mini 30. I paid 800 for it when ar rifles were 1200 and its done what I needed it to. I love how it shoots carries and balances. its accurate as the round itself. just my experience
But, it's true today on a larger scale. More States are banning or making it impossible to own an AR. If you want a .223 in the year of the Covid-19 and antifa running loose, ya got to pay up. I'm sure Ruger is smiling all the way to the bank.
Pretty much a monopoly on mini14s. They can charge whatever the market will bear.
There's nothing legally stopping other manufacturers from building Mini14 clones. The demand just isn't there to justify the startup costs. There could potentially be a very small pool of customers for a premium, forged or milled receiver Mini14 rifle, but it would end up costing $1500+.
Nobody can domestically build a Mini14 pattern rifle at a lower cost than Ruger, that's for sure.
Again, being a ban state doesn't really have anything to do with it.
Using galleryofguns and a zip for southern California and another zip for east Texas (Tyler) and a 3rd zip in W.AZ, once you take out the extra fees paid to CA, the price is nearly the same.
So not only is the price basically the same in S. CA and E.TX, and W. AZ would appear the Ruger isn't making any more money.
I think he was relating to Rugers monopoly on semi-auto centerfire rifle sales on AR ban States. Since you can’t buy any AR in Ca, unless it’s a workaround gun, your choice for a .223/5.56 semi is a Mini, a Kel Tec or the like.
If your gun is really running that poorly, call Ruger. They will fix the gun, regardless how old it is or if purchased second hand. Just make sure you don't send in any aftermarket stuff on it as they will remove and send back in stock configuration.
Ruger is very good at fixing their guns, though they may say it will take time. It rare they actually charge anything for repairs. But yeah, they won't sell a lot of parts to the public. It's all return to the mother ship for fixing.
I get it, and I know thats nearly everyones experience. But it was a simple, easy to replace part that requires no fitting. They told me no, I would have to send it in. First, only time I have ever been told "if you have to ask, you can't afford it". I asked again, and was snottily given the "minimum service" list, and the least expensive would be $190, before parts. I did not get the return authorization number, and ordered the part from Brownells, and have stopped buying Rugers. Not because of the bad attitude, but because of the NO PARTS policy. Love the ones I have, and Ruger not making anything I like is more the reason than even the policy. I'm sure the service person was having a bad day, and I'm sure she doesn't work there anymore, but still, it was one hell of an impression.
I will add, if they told me $190+20 in parts professionally, I would not have been upset. I still would have ordered the parts from Brownells, but I would have long since forgotten about it.
They effectively have a monopoly because nobody else is building them. So if somebody wants one there's only one place to go. I can remember 40 years ago they were considered relatively low cost rifles.
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