Old Stumpy
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Why are mini 14's so expensive
- Thread starter JO JO
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Sorry, your posts rubbed me the wrong way. My bad.
Except Ruger doesn't sell direct to distributors. They sell to wholesale houses. So you're going to have to cut that Ruger price in half, then in half again as that would be their cost.
Customer pays $400
Shop - pays $200
XYZ - Pays $100
ABC - Pays $50
Ruger - $25 to build it.
You need to build the whole chain. Even if Ruger sells to XYZ their cost is still only $50.
I know a lot of people involved in the firearms business. No one is making a 50% markup. NO ONE.
Hell, I gave you the numbers from Ruger above. Their Net Profit is 11.25% If you're selling at double your cost you'd be a damn poor business man to only have a 11.25% net profit.
Many times Walmart is selling items for less than small shops pay.
In your world why wouldn't ABC just sell direct for say $200 and make $150 instead of $50?
illinoisburt
Member
To lighten the mood in this thread, here's a nice fresh 100 yard target from hot and humid Saturday afternoon with my old style Mini. Shot 4 3-round groups starting with cold barrel, then in between shooting at some plates offhand. First group tight and an inch high. Five rounds later, next group still tight and dead on. 5 more and starting to string. Last one, well... Let's just say it lived up to reputation as usual. For the most part kept on the 10 inch plate rest of day, set it aside to cool when it gets too squirrelly and it returns to point of aim. Good for hunting, not so good for sustained fire.
Yes the target was upside down on the backer.
Yes the target was upside down on the backer.
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mustanger98
Member
That kind of shooting... more casual, I guess... is probably more like what most of us do for enjoyment. For hunting, inside the 10" plate is inside a deer's vital zone and we're usually talking about that as a cold bore shot. Most of us aren't talking about deer outside 200yds with 5.56-anything. From here, this looks like it should do it, but that would bear further shooting that some of us wouldn't require given visibility to 125yds. The sustained fire... yeah, I've heard about several fine semi-auto hunting rifles that aren't designed for it.
Old Stumpy
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1) Lets be honest. A 10" group at 100 yards is absolutely horrible. Even a Mosin Nagant beater will shoot groups of 5 inches at 100 yards. Most owners of such a rifle would get rid of it ASAP.
2) The .223 cartridge is little more than the .222 Remington. It's essentially a varmint cartridge and is under-powered (and in some states illegal) for deer hunting. That's why the Mini 30 was introduced.
I think that you guys are kidding yourselves.
Ironicaintit
Member
And some people allow perfect to be the enemy of the good.
so uh, don’t get one!
Can’t it be enough to enjoy a platforms traits without constantly finding its faults?
I love shooting my mini.
so uh, don’t get one!
Can’t it be enough to enjoy a platforms traits without constantly finding its faults?
I love shooting my mini.
Old Stumpy
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Enjoy your rifle by all means, but on a discussion forum, you must expect discussion and disagreement.
Otherwise you end up with just a mutual admiration society IMHO.
illinoisburt
Member
Pretty much any time I pick up the rifle cold it will shoot a 5 shot group right about 2-1/2 moa. It's not uncommon for the first 2 rounds to be within an inch of each other, and it will be right on with the scope every time cold bore. So for hunting where the first round and maybe a followup or two is expected It's more than acceptable. The factory mag only holds 5 as it is. I cannot conceive of a realistic situation where I will ever need to fire more in the woods. Its playing at the range where tons more go down range, and its not 10 moa. More like 5 to maybe 6 which is fine to hit the 10 inch plate offhand, and usually okay to hit clay pidgeons as well. Lets it cool down if it makes you crazy.
mustanger98
Member
That's what I was talking about based on my understanding of the last comment. I generally agree about letting the barrel cool, or just not getting in a hurry in the first place. I tend to think take a semi-auto and shoot it like a crankbolt as if you have one round.
Ironicaintit
Member
We could always use the topic thread as a guide for the discussion too.
mustanger98
Member
Any item, for sale or trade, is only worth whatever a buyer and seller can agree on. Whether or not it was a good deal... that's equally or moreso dependent on other factors.
Good deal, bad deal. That's solely in the discretion of the buyer who is actually parting with his/her money. No-one else's. That's how free market by definition works.
Mine shoots an average of 1½" 100yd groups off the bench, all day long with no stringing whatsoever, after a few simple $0 DIY tweaks. But I practically never shoot it off the bench; most commonly offhand, on sticks or treestand with makeshift support. Even when I first got it (5"+ and stringing like crazy) it was plenty accurate for anything I've ever planned to use it for.
I can't really understand spending days (weeks, years, even decades) on end shooting from the bench unless you're serious about benchrest shooting and gear up accordingly, ie. 6mm PPC or equivalent from a rail gun. Been there, done that, shot cloverleafs & ragged holes at 300yd+ and eventually bored myself senseless doing it. OK, fine, a rifle shoots consistent ½MOA confirmed by several 10rd groups. Now go and do something useful with it, instead of repeating the same performance ad nauseum. Or more accurately, that's my take on the subject. It's far more fun to have buddies over for a proper venison backstrap BBQ, a few wheat beers and quality time instead of beating a path back and forth to a concrete bench to confirm the baseline accuracy of your rifle you already know.
Maybe even setting up a dueling tree, bringing out a brick or two of .22, a couple of pistols and having a blast (before the beers, mind you) while we're at it. None of which is capable of splitting a hair at gazillion yards or theoretical .000321MOA accuracy.
Different strokes for different folks, probably. Everything can't be measured in numbers and sometimes - often, even - they're meaningless as far as the outcome is concerned.
Mine shoots an average of 1½" 100yd groups off the bench, all day long with no stringing whatsoever, after a few simple $0 DIY tweaks. But I practically never shoot it off the bench; most commonly offhand, on sticks or treestand with makeshift support. Even when I first got it (5"+ and stringing like crazy) it was plenty accurate for anything I've ever planned to use it for.
I can't really understand spending days (weeks, years, even decades) on end shooting from the bench unless you're serious about benchrest shooting and gear up accordingly, ie. 6mm PPC or equivalent from a rail gun. Been there, done that, shot cloverleafs & ragged holes at 300yd+ and eventually bored myself senseless doing it. OK, fine, a rifle shoots consistent ½MOA confirmed by several 10rd groups. Now go and do something useful with it, instead of repeating the same performance ad nauseum. Or more accurately, that's my take on the subject. It's far more fun to have buddies over for a proper venison backstrap BBQ, a few wheat beers and quality time instead of beating a path back and forth to a concrete bench to confirm the baseline accuracy of your rifle you already know.
Maybe even setting up a dueling tree, bringing out a brick or two of .22, a couple of pistols and having a blast (before the beers, mind you) while we're at it. None of which is capable of splitting a hair at gazillion yards or theoretical .000321MOA accuracy.
Different strokes for different folks, probably. Everything can't be measured in numbers and sometimes - often, even - they're meaningless as far as the outcome is concerned.
kBob
Member
hq,
how about a post on those DIY $0 upgrades? Start a new thread if you must but, curious, I am.
The spousal Unit has made noises about shooting hers and your info would give me an excuse for playing with it and shooting it bit myself first.
-kBob
how about a post on those DIY $0 upgrades? Start a new thread if you must but, curious, I am.
The spousal Unit has made noises about shooting hers and your info would give me an excuse for playing with it and shooting it bit myself first.
-kBob
I've posted them at least a couple of times, but as it's really simple, here we go again...
- Hand-lapping the barrel (lead tap, coarse + finishing compound)
- Lapping and truing the barrel channel in the gas block, planing flat mating surfaces, torquing screws to spec
- Aligning and polishing the gas piston
- Basic trigger job; stoning and polishing
- Optional: staking the gas orifice to smaller diameter or a smaller aftermarket orifice
- Optional²: DIY or aftermarket recoil buffer
All in all about one afternoon's worth of tinkering, as basic as actual DIY gunsmithing gets. Simply bolting on purchased parts doesn't IMO count as gunsmithing, not even close.
That's really not very high road if you ask me.
mokin
Member
I agree with you 100%. But... This past weekend I participated in a 3 gun shoot. I took my AR-15 because I wanted as looking for maximum score. If I was trying for maximum fun, I would have taken the Mini-14. I felt like I was cheating myself. I think next month, I'll take a lot more guns and shoot one round for score and one for fun.
illinoisburt
Member
My thoughts exactly. Benches are for sighting in and confirming load specs. After that's done, enjoy some practical shooting. Cannot tell you how many folks I've seen can't hit a darned thing offhand at any distance even after getting decent results on a table. 4 or 5 moa of *usable* accuracy beats 1/4 moa of missing every time.
daniel craig
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Basic economics in a capitalist society. Because people buy them at that price. If not a single person bought them at the price they go for, 1.) they’d be cheaper or 2.) it would be determined that it costs more to make than people are willing to buy for, thus no profit can be made, this manufacturer makes no sense.
Your opinion does not make me or anyone else stupid. And I surely don't think calling people stupid fits anywhere on The High Road. IMO. Doubling down on it makes it even worse. IMO. For the first time ever on this site, I'm wishing for an ignore function.
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I dont necessarily disagree.
BUT Ive spent somewhere around 5K on ARs, and shot more than a few that cost 1/2 to 3/4 that to buy or build, and I can honestly say Id trade any of them for my 581 back.....tho obviously if i OWNED a 3k dollar ar, id be asking for cash on the side LOL.
The feel of the Mini makes it worth the extra 300 bucks to me, much like the feel of the Christensen I own was worth 1500 bucks more than my equally accurate and functional Ruger Americans.
Im also not offended if you think thats stupid, your welcome to that opinio. If you LIKE other formats of rifles it probably does seem (is) stupid, but the minis unique in the way it feels, and that warrants the extra cost to me....even the very similar SKS wasnt quite "right" enough.
That said, the only reason i can see the Mini actually BEING that expensive, is that they KNOW that less folks will buy them and to make them profitable they have to charge a premium (or can since well buy them anyway).
I had a very strong hankering to buy another mini a few months ago, but ill wait for it to come out in .350 legend. THAT will make it exactly what i want for short range pig popper....then i can dump my .350 AR upper.
I've toyed with an idea of rebarreling a Mini14 to .450BM or .458Socom. It's been done before but it's not common and talk about THUMPER. I've got my Deerfield and with hot 240/270/300gr handloads it's quite a tool for short range hog work, but either of those is a step up in sheer stopping power. Not to mention being legal and powerful enough for moose to boot.
Something like that triggers my "WANT!!" -factor like few other firearms can.
Dare to be different. There are enough lemmings in the world.
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