Why are my bullet holes different?

[ChuckB]

I was at the range today, shooting my Beretta 92 loaded with 124 gr. 9mm FMJ's, and a rental S&W .38 K-frame wheelie, also with FMJ's. The targets were printed on plain paper, without cardboard backing. I couldn't help but notice that the 9mms' holes had very ragged edges, while the .38s' were neat, sharp-edged holes. I'm kind of at a loss about this. Any thoughts or opinions?

Chuck

 

[SodiumBenzoate]

Bullet shape would be my guess, although I have very little actual experience, and I don't even know if the shape is different. The only .38s I've seen were the JHPs my dad keeps for his snubby/carry piece.

 

[Sheldon]

The 38s were probably of a semi wad cutter design (SWC) and they have a shoulder on the bullet that is made to cut a nice clean hole. The 9mm was probably a full metal jacketed round nose bullet which will leave a smaller diameter ragged hole for the most part.

 

[stans]

Yep, 9mm FMJ round nose bullets make ragged little holes in paper, 38 SWC bullets make a cleaner hole.

 

[ChickenHawk]

I've noticed that even with 9mm, when I shoot JHP's I get nice neat round holes. But, when I shoot FMJ (ball) I get jagged holes.

Cheers,
ChickenHawk

 

[cool45auto]

I'll second what ChickenHawk said.

 

[P95Carry]

Just re- reading to check .. BOTH were FMJ's. That is odd ... because I reckon that 9mm .38spl, and 45 acp FMJ's will always all give ragged holes. usually seems to get worse (or more apparent) as cal gets bigger .. which figures.

The ball ammo ''tears'' the paper and forces its way thru. A JHP has somewhat of a ''paper punch'' effect just as it hits and ''clears the way'' for what follows, so tearing is reduced. With SWC's then there is that nice sharp shoulder .. and the hole is just like a paper punch got it!

Still puzzled tho if both were FMJ's ... getting that much difference.

 

[Jim K]

If it was an indoor range, the .38 bullets may have been wadcutters, not semi-wadcutters. Wadcutters are pure target loads, made to cut clean holes in the target paper to make scoring easier. In target shooting, a bullet that cuts a line is scored at the higher value, so having bullets that punch out a neat hole, like the hole cut in cardboard by a "wadcutter" (an old-fashioned tool used for cutting out cardboard shotgun wads), helps when scoring a target.

Jim

 

[Car Knocker]

I'll bet the .38's weren't jacketed but plated SWC's or wadcutters.

 

[ChuckB]

Sorry. You're all wrong- well, most of you. All of the ammo was hardball. I know that a SWC will make a nice round hole. That's why I'm confused. Now what?

Chuck

 

[Greybeard]

Maybe caused by a little more velocity with the 9s ...

Edited to add: 9 mm is .355" ... .38 is .357" ... .002 bigger ... Yea, that's gotta be it!

 

[WheelMan]

I've acutally never seen a .38 FMJ before but maybe the nose of the .38 round was a little rounder than the 9mm? anything that blunts the bullet will give more tear and less "slip"

This is exactly why I've always guessed that 180 grain cheapo .40 FMJ is probably more deadly than 240 grain .45 FMJ, simply because .40 FMJ tends to be truncated cone while .45 is usually ball. The truncated cone (basically the "Keith" shape) has long been known to tear things up.

 

[arinvolvo]

The flatter the nose of the bullet, the cleaner the hole it will leave in paper.

 

[caz223]

yeah, gotta agree with that, 9mm bullets are more "pointy".

 

[BluesBear]

My local range sells FMJ ammo loaded by PMC and Sellier & Bellot.

The PMC stuff has the typical round nose configuration. WHile the S&B has a flat nose. The S&B makes a much neater hole than the PMC.

All FMJ is not created equal.

 

[Sheldon]

The bullet can be FMJ and still have a very small edge to it like a SWC does and that may be the case here. I'de have to see the bullet to really tell.

 

[ChuckB]

Lots of good input here. Thanks. It's just an academic question, of course, with no real-world importance that I can see. Unless you're shooting paper targets in competition; judges LOVE clean holes!

Chuck

 

[Hal]

9mm uses a taper crimp and .38spl usually a roll crimp.
My best guess would be that the roll crimp into a cannalure would be acting like a secondary shoulder and cutting a cleaner hole..

 

[BluesBear]

...roll crimp into a cannalure would be acting like a secondary shoulder...

no


:banghead:

 

[stans]

I bet that jacketed 38 bullet does have a small shoulder and the brass is crimped over that shoulder. This would conceal the shoulder from view.