Why are Semi Auto Shotguns not used more often for HD?

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I always read up on Pump actions being the recommended choice for HD, why is this? Is it the cost? Is it because you don't think they are reliable enough? Is it because you actually use Birdshot for HD or low recoil loads? What is the reason? I use a Remington 1100 and haven't had a jam with it yet with any of the loadings I use for HD. I keep mine properly loaded with 6 + 1 rounds so messing up when chambering it is not a possibilty since I never have to chamber it in a stress situation.

(I do actually recommend Pumps for HD myself to those that don't shoot alot simply because of cost alone.)

 

[oneounceload]

I always read up on Pump actions being the recommended choice for HD, why is this? Is it the cost

More often than not, yes

 

[rbernie]

Cost, mechanical reliability (or stated differently, simplicity), and oftimes weight.

I took an 1100 and turned it into a HD gun once. After I did so, I found that the shotgun handled like a soggy fencepost with the mag extension on it and loaded up. For bastion defense down the stairwell or 'poke shooting' at static target holders on a range I'm sure it would have been OK, but the already-front-heavy design of the 1100 did not translate well in HD form if the intent was to use if for more, um, dynamic shooting.

I prefer the 870 over the 1100 because I can add an Nordic +1 and a Marine Magnum barrel to a standard Express and have a gun that costs under $400, is stone-simple to maintain, and that retains excellent balance and overall utility.

 

[Justin]

What RBernie said.

The average person can go to a gun shop and buy a pump-action shotgun for a very low cost, and be reasonably sure that it will run with pretty much any ammunition.

Semi-auto shotguns, on the other hand, usually cost about 5x as much and can be picky about what you load them with. As a result, anyone who intends to use a semi-auto for HD would be wise to do fairly thorough testing with whatever ammunition they intend to use.

 

[Ranger30-06]

Pump actions are a lot cheaper to buy and will reliably handle any ammo I throw through it. I don't use birdshot, but I personally like the idea that if SOMETHING happens and my ammo doesn't fire when I pull the trigger, I don't have to remove my hand from the grip to re-rack the gun. I just pump the slide (which takes me all of 1/2 of a second) and pull the trigger again (hoping that all the ammo in the tube isn't defective like the first round of course

 

[Shadow 7D]

For me, it's the ability to eat anything and keep going

 

[RaceM]

All the above plus I think a semi is gonna encourage spray & pray until the mag is empty. A pump slows you down a might, the very reason I opt for wheelguns over autos.

 

[oneounceload]

For me, it's the ability to eat anything and keep going

After watching several pumps of various expense and flavors malfunction by not ejecting empties, etc. - I would say your statement would be more correct for a single shot or a double barrel

No need to worry about short-shucking either

 

[Dave McCracken]

Before I passed a family Model 11 on to a cousin I ran maybe 40 00 loads through it without a glitch. The thing did gag once in a while on field loads,even when set for light loads. Said cousin has passed it on to hi son. who shoots a litle skeet with it, hunts deer and uses it to guard his home and service station.

Autos can and do work, but pumps are much more common for the reasons already in this thread.

 

[USAF_Vet]

My step dad is out of town a lot for business, leaving my mom at home. I checked out all his guns, loking for the one that would serve her best for HD.
We passed on the ancient 12 gauge Remington pump, only because of it's age. It was his dads gun, and he hadn't fired it since he got it. It's easily 50 years old. It probably works fine, but if he didn't trust it, she certainly wouldn't.

We skipped the SxS 20 gauge because we couldn't get it to fire. Something with the safety not being 100%. Being a Charles Daly import, parts are not common. We ended up settling on the 20 gauge Rem 1100 with the Ruger Single Six as backup.

She's can handle the gun easily, the recoil is manageable being a 20 gauge, and she would hunker down in the bedroom with the shotgun pointed at the door, so the longer barrel wouldn't be an obstruction. No room clearing for her. Also, it can be rested on the bed and used one handed if she's got the cell phone in hand calling 911.

For me and my situation, a 18" pump is more ideal. YMMV.

 

[rbernie]

We ended up settling on the 20 gauge Rem 1100 with the Ruger Single Six as backup.

Sounds like the right call - it must be said that a semiauto is probably a better choice for folk that won't or can't practice regularly, so long as the semi has been proven reliable with the SD load of choice. There's not much value in a repeater if the operator cannot or will not remember to work the action under stress.

 

[Bonesinium]

I always read up on Pump actions being the recommended choice for HD, why is this? Is it the cost? Is it because you don't think they are reliable enough? Is it because you actually use Birdshot for HD or low recoil loads? What is the reason? I use a Remington 1100 and haven't had a jam with it yet with any of the loadings I use for HD. I keep mine properly loaded with 6 + 1 rounds so messing up when chambering it is not a possibilty since I never have to chamber it in a stress situation.

(I do actually recommend Pumps for HD myself to those that don't shoot alot simply because of cost alone.)

I think it is for the exact reasons you said (well except hopefully not the one about birdshot!).

 

[jmr40]

Cost is the only real factor. That and folks buy what they see used on TV. After all everyone knows that just racking the slide on a pump is all that is really needed to run off the bad guys, no shots are ever needed. AT least it works that way in Hollywood.

A good auto with even reasonably decent ammo will actually be more reliable than a pump. While the pump SHOULD be more reliable the weak link is the shooter and you are more likely to see shooter induced malfunctions with a pump. The auto is more likely to work regardless of operator error.

Weight is a non factor. I'm amazed at how many folks THINK a certain gun is especially heavy or light. Getting a set of postal scales to actually weigh a few guns is educational. Forget about published weights on websites or catalogs, they are quite often not even close. There is no differece in weight among the typical autos vs pumps. Many pumps such as the Benelli and Browning are much heavier than most auto's. Many autos, Benelli in particular, are far lighter than any pump. The Remington 11-87 is a couple of oz heavier than a comparable 870, but the 11-87 is also much heavier than any other current auto.

Other than cost the auto is a far better choice for home defense and many folks are beginning to understand that now.

The pump has an advantage in a end of the world survival type situation in that it will continue to function with ANY type of ammo, no matter how poorly constructed or neglected. They will continue to work after much more neglect and abuse than an auto. But a home defense gun will not be subject to that type of abuse and neglect.

 

[Red Cent]

My tweaked 1187SP 26" with X shot ext. Heavy. Won't recoil much. Reload next week. Has a 5 round side saddle.

RaceM, thats what they said when the Spencer was introduced.

No kids. I can eat through any door or wall in the house.

Runs like a machine gun with 2 3/4" 3 dr. eq. with 4s.

 

[Mauser lover]

I have heard from people that use pump guns for hd that they leave the slide back (bolt open) and if they hear someone in the house they just rack the first shell into the chamber, hoping that the person in your house just jumps out the window instead of facing a gun that sounds much larger that any semi auto handgun. Apparently a semi-auto shotgun doesn't have the same huge shell sound when it is racked, don't know why..........

 

[Justin]

For what it's worth, I think that the action of running the pump on a pump-action shotgun twinges some sort of primeval instinct in the sub-conscious of the user.

I shoot mostly semi-auto shotguns, and consider them to be a better choice than pump guns for most of my applications, but deep down inside my brain, there's just something very satisfying about shucking a new round into the chamber of my Winchester.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

I took an 1100 and turned it into a HD gun once. After I did so, I found that the shotgun handled like a soggy fencepost with the mag extension on it and loaded up. For bastion defense down the stairwell or 'poke shooting' at static target holders on a range I'm sure it would have been OK, but the already-front-heavy design of the 1100 did not translate well in HD form if the intent was to use if for more, um, dynamic shooting.

My 1100 is also my trap gun with a $70 used barrel I got for it, I recently got into actual trap shooting about 2 months ago with meeting twice a month and I'm already hitting 19 out of 25 with my 1100 and with the mag extension intalled and I don't notice any problems with it and I'm still what I consider a Novice when it comes to trap shooting.

All the above plus I think a semi is gonna encourage spray & pray until the mag is empty. A pump slows you down a might, the very reason I opt for wheelguns over autos.

If someone thinks about spraying with an auto can easily do it with a revolver or a pump action, its the person, not the equipment.

The whole cost thing when it comes to shotguns varies, I got my 1100 in 95% condition for only $325. Unless you live in a mansion with many entry points and places criminals can be, the extra weight doesn't really hinder you because of how narrow rooms usually are. Thats my opinion anyway.

For me, it's the ability to eat anything and keep going

Its a good point but do you regularly change loads on a whim with your HD shotgun without first firing it through your gun? Both the slugs I use and the 4# Buckshot that I handload both work without a hitch so why would that really matter?

I have heard from people that use pump guns for hd that they leave the slide back (bolt open) and if they hear someone in the house they just rack the first shell into the chamber, hoping that the person in your house just jumps out the window instead of facing a gun that sounds much larger that any semi auto handgun. Apparently a semi-auto shotgun doesn't have the same huge shell sound when it is racked, don't know why..........

I do hear this myth, when I still had my 870, I kept one in the chamber. Racking a round into it when you you're in danger is a tactical disadvantage.

 

[Justin]

A pump slows you down a might, the very reason I opt for wheelguns over autos.

It doesn't take much practice to be able to run a pump faster than you can aim it.

 

[FIVETWOSEVEN]

A pump slows you down a might, the very reason I opt for wheelguns over autos.

I only have shot one round of doubles when I had my pump and I didn't like how when I pumped it, it ruined the smoothness of my swing. I know that was just me but it was that moment I decided I wanted a semi. Thats just me though, I actually impressed some people at my range with how fast I could shoot my pump when I was shooting birdshot to get the empties to reload with buckshot.

 

[memphisjim]

i think the sound of the pump has alot to do with it

 

[Shadow 7D]

What about something like a Siaga-12
You have a 20 round drum, full conversion with the 'self cleaning puck' and fully adjustable gas system...

And, white out or different colored nail polish is a great way to remember where to put the gas plug for what round...

For me it's the little things in an auto, like always having a few spare O-rings or what gas setting for what round, are you not cycling reduced recoil, or are you trying to blow the bolt carrier out the back of the receiver.

Even the Benelli has it's issues, the inertial system can be easily robbed of energy by failing to hold it securely, much like limpwristing in pistols.

So, my point is,
know your system,
and that a pump, for all it's shortcomings, tends to be a bit more forgiving.

 

[FAS1]

My Beretta 1201FP has been my choice for a home defense shotgun for the past 20 years. It has been 100% reliable with all kinds of purchased 12 gauge ammo. It cycles very fast and seems light enough to me. It is all stock with the factory combo pistol/butt stock. I would have no problem trusting a pump as long as I had plenty of experience with it. I think price is a deciding factor for a lot of people that buy a home defense shotgun. Problem is that many of those same people won't practice racking that pump until it's second nature for them.

 

[Sky]

I have a Mossberg pump 88 12gage that hurts so bad with slugs and magnums that I finally relegated it to guarding the back of the safe.

I still wanted a 12 that would not kill me to shoot with magnum 3" 00 or slugs.

I purchased the MKA 1919 and now have approx 200 rounds of nothing but 00 and slugs through the weapon. I still have my shoulder and my fillings have not fallen out as of this date. The only thing I do not like about loading a 1919 is the 2 3/4" rounds in the 2 3/4 mag; the rim of the case catches on the round already loaded in the mag making it a chore sometimes. The 3 inchers do not do the same because the shape of the top of the mag is slightly different (still have not used a dremel on it?).

I have not abused the 1919 but I have not babied it either and at this point with high brass rounds I have not experienced any problems that would keep me from depending on the weapon for HD. Judging by the hole it leaves in 1/2 inch ply wood at 30 yards with the shot it makes one think hummmmm I like it. Still need to go pig popping with it but just have not gotten around to it.

I would not be surprised that the sound of a chambered round with a pump to BGs might be a cause for a pause...My luck, they would be to stupid to know what the sound was??!!!

 

[Zundfolge]

I still contend that the reliability of both pump action shotguns and double action revolvers have been GROSSLY over stated.

I can't seem to shoot a pump shotgun quickly without short stroking the darn thing. As a result I shot clays better with a Tromix converted Saiga 12 than I do with my wife's Winchester 1200.

Also the whole "the sound of the pumping shotgun will make criminals flee in terror" is Hollywood BS. My home defense guns all have loaded chambers ... the first noise they'll be making is from a discharge.

Pumping a shotgun for the intimidation factor could get you killed because you just gave away both your position and the element of surprise.

 

[dprice3844444]

when you rack a round in a pump,if the perps have any brains,they are leaving fast.when you jack a round in,it is usually pointing in the direction of where you intend toshoot.