Why aren't you a cowboy action shooter?

[Rodman579]

sounds like to me there is alot of misconceptions to the sport of SASS. i have been shooting SASS ground matches since august 2010 and for 2 years prior i shot SASS mounted matches (meaning off the back of a horse). i shot ISPC, IDPA, modern 3 gun, steel plate challenges, long range rifle and anything else where i could be involved in competitive shooting for 10 years prior to getting involved in SASS. for me personally SASS is the most fun shooting sport i have been involved in and the fellow shooters make it this way. i shoot for fun win, lose or draw but i give it my all every time and i let the chips fall where they may. you dont have to dress up in period correct clothing if you dont want to. i wore wranglers and button down shirts just as if i were competing in a rodeo. all in all though i am just saying some of you guys ought to be a bit more open minded. if your a good shooter than you should be with any firearm. as far as i am concerned it takes more shooting skill to be able to accurately & quickly run single action pistols, lever action rifles and the shotguns that we compete with in this sport than my glocks, 1911s and AR15s. thats one of the reason i enjoy SASS because its challenging. but if any one of you all is ever down in florida give me a shout and come try shooting with us. you will be more than welcome to use my guns, gear and ammo. hell i will even buy your lunch if you dont have a smile on your face after your done shooting.

 

[InkEd]

Sorry Mr. Ashcroft,

The OP asked a question. The OVERWHELMING complaint is about the mandatory costumes. (Heck there's been two people on this thread that ALREADY OWN the guns BUT just won't do to dress-up.) The OP wanted to know the general consensus and that is it. Nobody is trying to be argumentative. It is the information the OP was requesting for suggetsions. As others have noted Black Powder and Garand Matches are shot
in ordinary clothes with NO negative effect to the sportsmanship or challenge. A person's individual OPINION can't really be wrong.

The SOLE reason that I (and at least 2 of my regular shooting buddies) don't do CAS is the costume/clothing requirement. That is a fact. The same is true for another member who answered on this thread. He joined a BP club instead. If they ever drop the requirement for cowboy clothing, I (and some friends) will join and enjoy ourselves. If not, no big deal. I still really enjoy shooting "cowboy guns" on my own.

Best regards and shoot safe,
-InkEd



The second is the underpowered loads. A few CAS participants have said that they have gotten a little better than in the past and for safety with close range targets, ammo use is okay. The money for competition isn't all that bad.

A serious open class IPSC gun will START at about $2500. 3-Gun will run about $2000 or better. The price of the guns and ammo aren't a big deal for those wanting to do competition shooting other than rimfire.

 

[SleazyRider]

I don't mind dressing up, heck, folks laugh at the way I dress anyway. But wearing two six-shooters just doesn't make sense to me. Is it historically accurate?

Nonetheless, I called my local SASS chapter to see if they'd let me observe a shoot, and they were less than enthusiast about my visiting them. Maybe Twain was right: I'd never want to be a member of an organization that would have me as a member.

 

[Hardtarget]

First...I can't afford the ammo to shoot a bunch of matches.

Second...I can't afford the array of guns to shoot the ammo through.

I shoot enough through the various guns I already have and none of them are cowboy types. Just never went that direction with my gun purchases.

Y'all have fun!

Mark

 

[just1more]

Since their are so many misconceptions to the clothing requirements, even from some SASS shooters. Here are the rules for all but two classes, and why the rules makers want it.

From Shooters Hand Book
CLOTHING AND ACCOUTERMENTS
Cowboy Action Shooting™ is a combination of historical reenactment and Saturday
morning at the matinee. Participants may choose the style of costume they wish to wear, but
all clothing must be typical of the late 19th century, a B-western movie, or Western television
series.
SASS puts a great deal of emphasis on costuming because it adds so much to the
uniqueness of our game and helps create a festive, informal atmosphere that supports the
friendly, fraternal feeling we encourage in our competitors.
All shooters must be in costume, and we encourage invited guests and family also to be
costumed. Shooters must remain in costume at all match events: dinners, award ceremonies,
dances, etcetera.
ALL clothing and equipment MUST be worn appropriately, how it was intended and how
it would have been worn in the OLD WEST or as seen on B-Western movies and television.

From RO II manual
ILLEGAL ITEMS
The following are examples of SASS “illegal” items. The current version of the SASS
Handbook should always be used as an additional reference for illegal items. The use or
presence of any outlawed item is a Stage Disqualification.
• Modern shooting gloves
• Short sleeve shirts (Male competitors only)
• Short sleeved tee shirts, long sleeved tee shirts, and tank tops for all competitors. (Long
sleeved Henley type shirts with buttons are allowed.)
• Modern feathered cowboy hats
• Designer jeans
• Ball caps
• Tennis, running, jogging, aerobic or other modern athletic shoes, combat boots
• Apparel displaying manufacturer’s, sponsor’s or team logos. Manufacturer’s labels on
such apparel or equipment are acceptable.
• Nylon, plastic, or Velcro accouterments.

These are all the clothing rules I know of. It is really very open to interpretation. I have heard of the costume police. I have never seen or talked to someone who was actually told that they were not in costume. I think that was a phase that has died out, much like the mouse phart loads people used to use. I have heard some light loads, but it was only when someone was trying out a new recipe, or had press issues. I have even see some shotgun targets fall, just from the velocity of the wad, because the press didnt drop any shot.
Here in the great northwet, we do tend to be even more open to rules for safety and warmth. So we allow much more including good rain coats.

 

[co_dave]

And it should be pointed out, that newcomers at monthly matches are welcomed however they come. If you want to shoot an annual match or higher, then expect the clothing rules to be enforced.

Sure, you might run into some hard cases who like to nit pick what you're wearing, but those are few and far between in my experience.

Oh, and there are more clothing rules if you want to shoot in the B Western or Classic Cowboy categories.

 

[Griff093]

Interesting thread. Sad there is so much misinformation and misconceptions. But, truthfully, very little has changed in the 20 years since I helped form the 2nd oldest cowboy action club in TX. The requirements are simple, all lead bullets, pistols 1000fps, rilfes <1400 fps (pistol-length calibers only), 20 - 10 guage with #4 shot or smaller.

There is no costume requirement (except for the Classic Cowboy/girl & B-Western categories). Long sleeved shirt, pants and leather footwear with no grip enhancing soles. Jeans are not a required minimum, wool was probably as prevalent as synthetics are today. A pair of broghams work as well as boots. Most clubs make accomodations for varying degrees of disability.

Just because some folks dress to the 9's, there are plenty of others that meet the minimum requirements... but if that's your excuse, stick to it. Fashion police are an urban legend in my experience. I should know... don't ask. But I've reformed... lately.

As for light loads... My guns are all over 20 years old... and have an untold number of rounds thru them. I firmly believe that shooting lighter than standard loads has helped them live this long. And at the time they started, my wife was a new shooter, why punish her and the 10 year old son with what they'd perceive as heavy loads? Let's put it in perspective, if my wife is havin' fun... so'm I!

One thing I've learned in 25 years of cowboy action shooting... you go out for the guns and shooting, come back for the people and keep coming back for the FUN! If you don't like socializing, then cowboy action probably ain't for you. Yes, different clubs have different character, but I've seldom been to one that didn't put on a feed bag after the shootin, do some visitiin' and socializin'. But, if that ain't your bag... stay home and play on the computer.

As for the guns... nothing worthwhile is cheap. some hobbies are more expensive than others. Take up water-skiing. Okay, just price it out! No you don't need a $65K tournament boat, but... if you're gonna do something, do it right!

When I started we used one sixgun. And about 10 years later the shooters demanded MORE shooting. So, a second sixgun fulfilled that need. As with most businesses... they try to please their repeat customers. Most shooters like MORE shooting. Bring out your lonely sixgun... either someone will loan ya one, or you can reload on the clock... that's a skillset that might come in handy. When I was with the SO, my Colt SAA was on my duty list... and I qualified with it. Droppin' one of the guns would diminish the draw and appeal of the game for current members.

If you've ever been treated poorly, you owe it to yourself to try again. I suggest you come on down to TX and visit us at the Lone Star Frontier Shooting Club. Send an email to one of the officers and introduce yourself. Let them know you're interested and when you'll be out. You'll be pointed to someone that'll take care of ya. If that ain't an option, try the same with any of the clubs on the listing found at: SASS Affiliated Clubs.

If you're happy playing whatever game you play, don't have the time or the inclination to add another one... so be it. Even if you've tried it and didn't find it your cup of tea... the game isn't to blame. It is what it is. Trying to change cowboy acton shooting into what you think it should be is like folks visiting TEXAS from someplace else, liking the weather... moving... and immediately trying to change TEXAS into something like what they left. I'm sorry folks, you get what you don't like with TEXAS as well as what you like.

I love silhouette shooting, and even played at cowboy lever silhouette before it was a recognized NRA sport. They've now got a couple of rules I don't like. Should I expect that they'll change them, just to get me as a shooter... I don't think so! Likewise SASS.

For those that have replied honestly, I thank you. As the author of the topic said, he ain't an official representative os SASS, nor am I... but this is a sport that I truly enjoy... just the way it is. I also recognize that it ain't for everyone. But, if you have an interest, I sure hope any misconceptions you may have held have been dispelled; any misinformation corrected. If not, feel free to email me or another active SASS member, heck for that matter contact the SASS Office directly and get your questions answered. I certainly ain't gonna ask an IDPA shooter about BPCRS. You shouldn't either.

 

[Justin]

The OP asked a question. The OVERWHELMING complaint is about the mandatory costumes. (Heck there's been two people on this thread that ALREADY OWN the guns BUT just won't do to dress-up.)

The name of the sport is Cowboy Action Shooting. Tie the word "cowboy" to something, and you're infusing it with a whole host of cultural references and expectations. The founders of CAS set out with a specific notion in mind; as I understand it, is to create a romanticized realization of the old west built on the foundation of shooting matches.

I'm not interested in CAS, but even I can recognize that the costuming part of CAS is built right into the DNA of the sport, and demanding that they change or omit that rule for you strikes me as tremendously presumptuous.

The OP wanted to know the general consensus and that is it. Nobody is trying to be argumentative. It is the information the OP was requesting for suggetsions. As others have noted Black Powder and Garand Matches are shot in ordinary clothes with NO negative effect to the sportsmanship or challenge.

Black powder and Garand matches have goals fundamentally different than CAS. Those matches are strictly interested in the marksmanship aspects inherent to their particular venues, and nothing more.

What you're not comprehending is that CAS is meant to be more than a shooting competition. It's fundamentally designed to have inbuilt cultural and nostalgic significance to the participants.

Now, if cowboys aren't your thing, that's fine. Old west nostalgia and cowboy culture isn't my deal, either. But for the people who participate in CAS, the cultural trappings of the old west are arguably as important as the shooting competition itself. If you don't get that, or it doesn't turn your crank, CAS likely isn't the sport for you.

If you're so starved to shoot cowboy guns without having to abide by a dress code, go shoot a local IDPA match with your single action revolver.

A person's individual OPINION can't really be wrong.

By definition, opinions aren't right or wrong, but that doesn't keep them from being ill-informed.

The SOLE reason that I (and at least 2 of my regular shooting buddies) don't do CAS is the costume/clothing requirement. That is a fact. The same is true for another member who answered on this thread.

If you and your friends were really so fired up to shoot your cowboy guns in a match without having to worry about a dress code, you'd already be competing at local IDPA matches with them. I've seen it done.


On a fundamental level, railing against the dress code for CAS is a bit like wearing an oil-stained t-shirt, jean shorts, and flip flops, walking into an exclusive country club with a dress code, and then getting butthurt over the fact that they won't let you in. If you want to roll in certain cultural circles, it will be expected that you dress the part.

 

[rocky branch]

I don't have a horse...
Fully agree with the post on suiting up if you want to participate.
It's their show-their rules.

There is no "I" in group, bunch, or team.
Lynch mob, either.

 

[Justin]

With little exception, the practical shooting sports are all individual-based competitions.

Doesn't change the fact that you need to play by the rules.

 

[InkEd]

They asked, what would draw more shooters? I answered the question. I didn't ask (or expect) them to make a personal exception. I get that it's "part of it." Doesn't change my suggestion. Not really trying to get into a fight about it. Soooooo, yeah....... anyway.

Shooting a SAA in an IDPA isn't the same idea. No rifle or shotgun. Practical draw and cover vs. Fast and fun. One thing I will give to the CAS guys is they are polite and LISTEN to the suggestions when they ask a question.

Take Care.
-InkEd

P.S. If there is anyone that actually does CAS on this thread anymore that would like to answer a few questions about the "minimum cowboyish" dress, one could wear at an average local event, please p.m. me. It seems like fun and I enjoy the firearms and style of competition. After reading that technically a cowboy hat is not required under SASS Official Rulebook, I would like to have some questions answered by a knowledgeable person.

 

[Calibre44]

You may be interested to know that CAS has spread over to here in the UK: Click here

Click on the photos section once the website has opened up for a look at the guns used. Not the sort of thing I'm personally interested in but it looks like fun. We have to use Black powder pistols of course.

 

[Man From Boot Hill]

I want to give a small rebuttal to the poster about my guns: In SASS, only four guns are needed, two six-shooters, a rifle and a shotgun. Yes I bought two more guns than needed. In fact I also own three black powder revolvers, a single shot black powder pistol, a ruger 45 vaquero(old model) a 9mm auto pistol and a derringer in 38spl. Why do I have more guns? Because I can! Cowboy action shooting is as much or as little as you want to it to be. I find it fun and a chanch to relive in a small way what once was. No one is twisting your arm to join up, it's your choice. Unless you have been there and done it, don't be critical of what you don't understand. I don't understand the appeal of some video games, but I don't knock the folks that play them. It's different strokes for different folks. I like to try something once, if I like it I do it again! if I don't, well I can say I did it but did not care for it. Be glad you live in a country where you still have fun with a choice in that fun.

 

[Dr.Rob]

Co Dave has convinced me, I'm gonna try it out. Might not be til May, but I'm game.

 

[Brass Rain]

I think it looks like a lot of fun, but I don't have the money for all the required arms, or the costumes.

Also I feel more at home in pinstripes and a fedora.

 

[2ndAmFan]

Money. Heck, I can barely afford to get out and do some target shooting twice a month unless I limit myself to .22 only.

 

[xcgates]

Personally I just don't have the time to get involved in a league, much less the money for the guns. That, and I'd be much more likely to do something involving guns I'm more likely to use in the course of my duties. (Service pistol/carbine type stuff)

As far as the whole "costume" controversy, boots, jeans, button up shirt sound pretty darn close to my Sunday best these days.

IOW, nothing against the rules or the people, just not my cup 'o tea.

 

[GBExpat]

Why aren't you a cowboy action shooter?

It holds zero interest for me ... but I am glad to see that others are enjoying it so much and expanding the base.

 

[Jbar4Ranch]

I want to give a small rebuttal to the poster about my guns: In SASS, only four guns are needed, two six-shooters, a rifle and a shotgun.

Back ups are nice, but, on the other hand, in all the years I've been shooting this game, I've never had to swap out a handgun, and only swapped out a rifle and shotgun one time each. If you have a malfunction, it will be no problem at all to borrow or share someone elses gun(s) to finish the match.
Of course, after those 4 initial required guns... then you'll want to get into the side matches and want to buy a Sharps or High Wall or somesuch for the long range matches... then there are pocket pistol side matches... derringer side matches... Wild Bunch matches...
Keep your eyes open for used guns or closeouts and you can put together a set of the four required guns relatively inexpensively. In January of '09, I bought an "as new", unfired .357 Rossi 1892 for $300, in the fall of '09, I bought a .357 Marlin '94 for $249 from a pawn shop, and another one from a SASS Wire member a year later for $375. Two months ago, I bought six Uberti single action revolvers from Wholesale Sports on close out for $327.75 each; 3 .38 spls, and 3 .45 Colts. Old, but solid SxS's, such as a Stevens 311, can be commonly be found for $250 or so. A single shot is even legal, just a but slower - I use this one every once in awhile just for the fun of it.

Technically, it isn't legal due to the "external modification" on the muzzle, but no one has ever complained about it at a local match.

You can shoot this game how you want to shoot it; light gamer loads to see how fast you can go, or warthog black powder loads to be a bit more authentic. Winning or losing is nothing to most of us, it's just a fun thing to do on a Saturday, more of a social event than anything. I can finish in the top half of the pack at any shoot I go to, but more often than not, I'm shooting something like 18" Uberti Buntlines, a 7 shot Spencer 56-50, and a 10g hammered shotgun w/brass shells and black powder where I consider a 90 second stage time to be pretty damn good... and I haven't finished dead last yet!

As for the clothing... well, wouldn't you don a western shirt, boots, & hat and try to get some personal tutoring from experienced shooters such as these?

The lovely Rocky Meadows -


or

 

[MattTheHat]

They asked, what would draw more shooters? I answered the question.

We get it. Change it from CAS to something else and they'll draw new participants. That's about as helpful as going to the doctor for a bad cough and having the good doctor suggest suicide. Sure enough, suicide would cure the cough. It's not really a relevant treatment, though, is it?

I think what this thread has done is identified many points of confusion for those of us who don't participate in CAS. Largely, those points have been addressed and corrected. If there's one thing CAS can do to encourage new shooters is to bear those misconceptions in mind and try to better educate those who might stumble across the various CAS web sites. The thing is, all of the sites I've visited in the past all had pretty good FAQ sections that already address the majority of these misconceptions. So I'm not sure how much more can be done. Maybe move a couple of the more mis-understood points to somewhere on the main page of the various websites in addition to the FAQ pages.

Then you have the complaints of those who feel they have been treated rudely by CAS representatives, for instance, at a booth at the local gun show. That's a problemwhich can be rectified fairly easily: Don't let the grumpy old guy run the CAS booth. If the grumpy old guy runs that particular CAS club and wants to run the booth anyway, maybe the others in the club need to figure out how to tell him he needs to hone his people skills, otherwise his efforts are largely wasted.

-Matt

 

[mcdonl]

Well, I have learned that people are passionate enough about it that if there is ever a match near me I would like to attend. The pictures of the women pretty much sold me, but I would enjoy the skilled shooting as well.

I have watched the end of trail special that Mr. Bane hosts every year and it looks like a blast.

 

[cane]

Lots of comments about "costumes". I would think that a "costume" is something you wouldn't wear daily. Look at shotgun shooters, they for the most part wear vests, and the vests for trap, skeet, international, and sporting clays are different. "Action" and 3 gun shooters wear shorts, knee/elbow pads, and shirts with all kind of firearm related patches on them. Different games, different "costumes", OTOH, most of us have "jeans", a long sleeve button shirt, and leather boots. No hat is required. I just came from "Winter Range" which is the SASS national championship, one shooter on my posse wore bib overalls, that's it (of course I don't know if he was commando or not) no hat, no boots/shoes, and met the "dress code".

 

[Nushif]

Don't let the grumpy old guy run the CAS booth. If the grumpy old guy runs that particular CAS club and wants to run the booth anyway, maybe the others in the club need to figure out how to tell him he needs to hone his people skills, otherwise his efforts are largely wasted.

I'd say that' a problem that's not exactly isolated to the CAS community. So really most clubs could learn a thing or three about that, be it a chess club, IDPA, CAS or whatever.
the biggest problem to most recruitment efforts to niche sports and the like is the exclusiveness.

[edit]
To me really the biggest drawback that stops me from doing CAS is that there is no specialized stages, no niches within the sport.
A shotgun only stage or league would be amazing! I've been meaning to pick up a nice side by side and love the way they handle, but I don't like two revolvers or rifle shooting. Gimme an excuse to save the pennies for cheap Stoeger side by side and I'd be on it. I already have the hat, and the white undershirt and overalls idea sounds like a hoot.
So a one revolver league and a shotgun league would be a lot more likely to draw me in than having to shoot two revolvers, a rifle and a shotgun.
[/edit]

 

[tinygnat219]

I used to shoot CAS, and it was the most fun I've had in any of the shooting games. Lots of fun, camaraderie, and shooting period firearms doesn't hurt.
I simply stopped going as I have too many other committments these days. I'd LOVE to get back into it as the shooters there are warmer, friendlier, and more relaxed than anything at
I'm loving the "mandatory costume comments" here. Especially when one looks at 3-Gun, IPSC and IDPA where specialty holsters, vests and other concealment items are considered "equipment". Change equipment to costume and you can can have the same complaints about them. .

Either way, it's up to you just how much into the "game" you want to get. I got in on the cheap:
2 Taurus Gauchos (when they were made) 800
SXS Stoeger Shotgun I already had: 250 was what I paid for it used
.357 Levergun I got lucky in a consignment sale: 250.
Leather was another 100 bucks and the belt was taken from an old toolbelt.
Startup costs ARE high, but they plateau quickly once the guns are procured. Ammo is the main expense after that. The goal should be to choose a common caliber, .38 SPL / .357 is probably the most popular due to the inexpensive nature of the .38 LRN ammo.
It's not the cheapest game around, but if you look at 3 Gun with an AR-15, the costs mentioned above might cover the AR-15 and the optic. This doesn't count the shotgun, or the handgun, or magazines for the handgun, or the fact you'll be hitting 3 different kinds of ammo rather than 2. So, compared to modern 3 gun, CAS is actually cheaper. Not cheap, but cheaper.

I ended up getting rid of the Gauchos. Crappy guns. I ended up going Nuclear cheap and getting two Nagant 1895 Revolvers for 150 each back in the day and shot .32 S&W Long through these. I'd generally finish middle of the pack. One time I was accused of being a gamer b/c of the .32 Long ammo. I handed the Nagant over and had them try the SA trigger (both of them are SA). He couldn't release it easily, and this is one I had worked on to get it down to 8 pounds. He apologized, shook his head, and asked: "THIS gun replaced the No. 3 S&W in Russia?" I let him shoot them after the match was over. The guy hit the 200 yard gong with the .32 Long. We're now pretty good friends. At one point I also picked up a SA Ruger Super Bisley Blackhawk in .44 Magnum shooting .44 Russian with the 7.5 inch barrel. So, I used that in a cross-draw right handed holster with one of the Nagants. You get some wierd looks when you use those. However, I had fun, and that was the goal.
CAS has its issues like any other group. I personally can't stand the use of the 1897 Winchester Pump gun. Why? b/c it's not really a Wild West gun. However, when talking to some of the older folks who told me that the movie the Wild Bunch was partial inspiration for the game, I got a bit more perspective as the 97 pump was used in that movie pretty heavily. Still, it's a fun group that I miss hanging out with and I will get involved again.

 

[Oyeboten]

Well, as it happens, yesterday at the local Gun Show here, I had a nice conversation with one of the local Cowboy Action Shooting Club's reps.

This is the first time anything like a conversation, let alone a warm or friendly mood has occurred.

They said "Come on out and watch, have fun, learn more..." and so on.

Very nice people, was a pleasure.

So, I will go and check out the scene next time they convene for their Matches.