Why aren't you a cowboy action shooter?
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Jabez Cowboy
Member
Cowboy loads
It seems that some people are under the impression that all "Cowboy Action" shooters shoot light loads ..... This is just not so ...
My pistols clock between 916-960 Fps. with 250 gr. bullets and the same loads clock between 1,224- 1,268 Fps. depending on rifle used ...
Jabez Cowboy
It seems that some people are under the impression that all "Cowboy Action" shooters shoot light loads ..... This is just not so ...
My pistols clock between 916-960 Fps. with 250 gr. bullets and the same loads clock between 1,224- 1,268 Fps. depending on rifle used ...
Jabez Cowboy
It probably doesn't help much that light loads are sometimes refered to as "cowboy loads"
Out of curiosity, what kind of barrel lengths are you guys commonly running on your pistols? is a midlength, 4.5" -5" barrel more or less prevelent than the 7.5" models?
Chris "the Kayak-Man" Johnson
mdauben
Member
Unfortunatly, this can happen with any group sharing any interest.
I had a smilar problem with a non-shooting related special interest club I tried to join a couple years ago. I was new to the area and didn't know anyone yet who shared this interest, so I checked out their website and called the "recruitment chairman". He invited me to a weekly get together, spent all of 5 minutes talking to me and then wandered off to sit with his friends (didn't invite me to join them), I stood there for a good half hour and had two people walk up to me and say hello, then wandered off to sit with their friends (didn't invite me to join them). I figued maybe it was just a coincidence to I tried another meeting a couple weeks later. After sitting around by myself for another half hour, I finally realized that this group really wasn't that interested in anyone outside their "clique" joining, so I left and never came back.
MD_Willington
Member
Never tried it before, no one ever invited me out to a shoot.
rugerman
Member
Don't play dress up, have several single action pistols but no two alike and all with adjustable sights, dito on the leveractions, no side by side shotguns and no cream puff loads that are good for nothing else. My lever actions and single actions are for hunting not Saturday morning dressup time.
Kayak man -
I would say a majority are in the 4 & 5/8 - 5 & 1/2 inch range. You do see the 7.5 inch ones sometimes though, it's all about how the individual wants to have fun, within the rules and structure of the game of course. Part of what I like is getting to see other folks guns, open tops, Ruger old Armys, Schofields, Walkers, etc.
Dave
I would say a majority are in the 4 & 5/8 - 5 & 1/2 inch range. You do see the 7.5 inch ones sometimes though, it's all about how the individual wants to have fun, within the rules and structure of the game of course. Part of what I like is getting to see other folks guns, open tops, Ruger old Armys, Schofields, Walkers, etc.
Dave
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
InkEd, what is it exactly that you are afraid of??? Is it just too far outside your comfort zone to wear anything but your every day clothes, or do you really just hate it?
This is a very good point. Who is more likely to look out of place at the grocery store, the shotgunner wearing a sporting clays vest, the 3-gun shooter with his tac-vest or the guy in a cowboy hat and boots???
Well, lets see.
I've been aware of SASS since I was 27 or so. I've been actively competing with firearms since about age 28. I'll split my answer into two parts.
1) Why I didn't get into SASS in the first place:
-startup cost. 4 guns, clothing, ammo, etc.
-period nazis (I've dealt with them in other recreational activities, and I have no need of any hobby that encourages them interfering with me). AT the very least, there are guns that fit their time range that they won't permit even if you offer to meet the lead requirement and velocity requirement.
-variability of what gets you a hassle. I'm 6'7", and the availability of period clothing in my size is nearly zero. Some clubs are more lax, some are more strict. I didn't need the hassle.
2) Why I continue to stay away.
-as a shooting sport, there's nothing really unique about it. It's a steel plate match with costumes, and the costumes cause hassle.
-lead bullets. I don't really like loading with cast lead.
-cowboy calibers in lead. I wouldn't share ammo with anything, or reloading setups with anything. Which means more components and more press changes or more presses.
-safety. At least locally, the SASS crowd seems to think lead + 1000fps is a guarantee of safety. Their steel is a death trap. You couldn't pay me to shoot at it.
-plus everything I mentioned in 1).
I've been aware of SASS since I was 27 or so. I've been actively competing with firearms since about age 28. I'll split my answer into two parts.
1) Why I didn't get into SASS in the first place:
-startup cost. 4 guns, clothing, ammo, etc.
-period nazis (I've dealt with them in other recreational activities, and I have no need of any hobby that encourages them interfering with me). AT the very least, there are guns that fit their time range that they won't permit even if you offer to meet the lead requirement and velocity requirement.
-variability of what gets you a hassle. I'm 6'7", and the availability of period clothing in my size is nearly zero. Some clubs are more lax, some are more strict. I didn't need the hassle.
2) Why I continue to stay away.
-as a shooting sport, there's nothing really unique about it. It's a steel plate match with costumes, and the costumes cause hassle.
-lead bullets. I don't really like loading with cast lead.
-cowboy calibers in lead. I wouldn't share ammo with anything, or reloading setups with anything. Which means more components and more press changes or more presses.
-safety. At least locally, the SASS crowd seems to think lead + 1000fps is a guarantee of safety. Their steel is a death trap. You couldn't pay me to shoot at it.
-plus everything I mentioned in 1).
Texas Moon
Member
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- 483
I shot in CAS for a few years back in the late 90's/early 00's.
Gave it up. It just got too expensive for me.
I think expense is the big reason most folks don't join up.
The costume thing can be a bit tedious but a simple pair of jeans, hat, and shirt will suffice.
Personally I didn't care for the rules that allow firearms like the 1897 Winchester pump shotgun(which was never on the frontier) but not allow an 1880 D/A Webley revolver.
I never liked the mouse loads either.
CAS will have to evolve and begin a classification for folks to shoot .22LR to get new folks in. Maybe only allow subsonic?
If gamers can shoot mouse loads whats the diff of shooting .22's?
Gave it up. It just got too expensive for me.
I think expense is the big reason most folks don't join up.
The costume thing can be a bit tedious but a simple pair of jeans, hat, and shirt will suffice.
Personally I didn't care for the rules that allow firearms like the 1897 Winchester pump shotgun(which was never on the frontier) but not allow an 1880 D/A Webley revolver.
I never liked the mouse loads either.
CAS will have to evolve and begin a classification for folks to shoot .22LR to get new folks in. Maybe only allow subsonic?
If gamers can shoot mouse loads whats the diff of shooting .22's?
MattTheHat
Member
I don't normally load lead either, but it's mainly because the indoor range where I normally shoot prohibits it. Considering the small amount I'd need for a typical CAS event, it certainly wouldn't be a deal-breaker for me.
I can see, especially for those who don't hand load, that the lead requirement could be a show stopper for some folks. Maybe having reasonably priced hand loads available might help in this regard. I understand the liability issue, but if folks are freely letting others shoot their hand loads in guns they allow others to borrow, it doesn't seem like any additional liability.
-Matt
Matt, the difference is that with one you are commercially selling a product, with loaned guns and given ammo you aren't. There are a number of commercial reloaders selling rounds for CAS.
I am NOT trying to talk anyone into it, nor am I putting down those who have chosen not to try it. Just trying to let folks know what it is all about from my experience, having been in the CAS game for 3 years now.
I'm not a fan of the pump 97 shotgun either, but it sure doesn't effect my enjoyment of the game. I shoot my mule ear double and have fun.
I am NOT trying to talk anyone into it, nor am I putting down those who have chosen not to try it. Just trying to let folks know what it is all about from my experience, having been in the CAS game for 3 years now.
I'm not a fan of the pump 97 shotgun either, but it sure doesn't effect my enjoyment of the game. I shoot my mule ear double and have fun.
DammitBoy
Member
I've always like the idea of going to a CAS or SASS competition to see if I wanted to join up.
I have all the guns, the costume idea doesn't bother me at all, and the fact that lots of women participate sounds like it's a great boon for all the shooting sports. If more people get involved in shooting sports because they can dress up and act goofy - more power to them.
My problem is I have no idea how to meet up with these folks or where they compete anywhere near me. I belong to my local shooting club, I go to about ten gunshows a year in multiple states, and I read several shooting publications every month.
I've never seen a poster, a flyer, or an advertisement about CAS or SASS. I've never seen a table at a gunshow promoting CAS or SASS. Seems like, if these organizations wanted to find new members - they would be at the gunshows...
I have all the guns, the costume idea doesn't bother me at all, and the fact that lots of women participate sounds like it's a great boon for all the shooting sports. If more people get involved in shooting sports because they can dress up and act goofy - more power to them.
My problem is I have no idea how to meet up with these folks or where they compete anywhere near me. I belong to my local shooting club, I go to about ten gunshows a year in multiple states, and I read several shooting publications every month.
I've never seen a poster, a flyer, or an advertisement about CAS or SASS. I've never seen a table at a gunshow promoting CAS or SASS. Seems like, if these organizations wanted to find new members - they would be at the gunshows...
MattTheHat
Member
Never thought of it that way. Well, as long as reasonably price ammo is available, I don't see that as a huge problem for most folks. Same as any other shooting sport, then. You either buy your ammo, or roll your own.
-Matt
Jabez Cowboy
Member
Mouse loads ????
I don't recall any one calling the .45 ACP GI load light (230 gr. bullet at 830 Fps.) so I hardly think my stated CAS loads running a 250 gr. bullet at over 916 Fps. Could be considered all that light .... This speed attained in my SLOWEST 4 5/8 inch barreled gun ..... My 5 1/2 inch gun clocks 960 Fps. with this load ...
As for folks not being friendly , I ain't found that to be the case ....
Come on out and visit and shoot ....
Jabez Cowboy
I don't recall any one calling the .45 ACP GI load light (230 gr. bullet at 830 Fps.) so I hardly think my stated CAS loads running a 250 gr. bullet at over 916 Fps. Could be considered all that light .... This speed attained in my SLOWEST 4 5/8 inch barreled gun ..... My 5 1/2 inch gun clocks 960 Fps. with this load ...
As for folks not being friendly , I ain't found that to be the case ....
Come on out and visit and shoot ....
Jabez Cowboy
dammit boy - http://www.sassnet.com/clubs/Clubs_list.php?state=Mississippi there is a link to the Mississippi clubs that are affiliated with SASS.
David E
Member
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- Aug 3, 2008
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- 7,459
I will get around to it, as my wife seems to be attracted to it....BUT
As others have said, it costs a LOT to get started.
At one match, I borrowed a nice '73 lever gun (my .44 Trapper only holds 9 in the tube) and it costs $1400. I can get a real nice AR for that......maybe two.
Holster rig for the wife is $500.
So even sharing the guns we're looking at over $3500 just to get started. Double that to $7000 if we each have our own set of guns......and we haven't even bought the costume(s) yet.
On top of that, to be competitive, the guns need to be modified from how they were originally designed, such as the short-throw lever on the rifles, etc.
I'd have to spend time getting good shooting loads that kick less than blanks big fat targets up close.......and that has zero practical application for me.
And all the time I'd spend getting good with gamey, antiquated gun designs, I could (and should) be spending getting good with modern, practical firearms.
Contrast that to buying a used Glock or Beretta trade-in and an Uncle Mike's holster and mag pouches and you're ready to shoot USPSA in Production division.
As others have said, it costs a LOT to get started.
At one match, I borrowed a nice '73 lever gun (my .44 Trapper only holds 9 in the tube) and it costs $1400. I can get a real nice AR for that......maybe two.
Holster rig for the wife is $500.
So even sharing the guns we're looking at over $3500 just to get started. Double that to $7000 if we each have our own set of guns......and we haven't even bought the costume(s) yet.
On top of that, to be competitive, the guns need to be modified from how they were originally designed, such as the short-throw lever on the rifles, etc.
I'd have to spend time getting good shooting loads that kick less than blanks big fat targets up close.......and that has zero practical application for me.
And all the time I'd spend getting good with gamey, antiquated gun designs, I could (and should) be spending getting good with modern, practical firearms.
Contrast that to buying a used Glock or Beretta trade-in and an Uncle Mike's holster and mag pouches and you're ready to shoot USPSA in Production division.
CraigC
Sixgun Nut
It ain't light but most of your "competitive" shooters are using superlight bullets at minimum velocities. I mean seriously, a 160gr .45???
Vern Humphrey
Member
I was in a saddle shop when the owner was pressuring me to join. I noted several pictures of people riding wooden horses. I don't ride wooden horses.
Where *does* the mounted aspect of the competition come into play?
Years ago (before I had any interest in guns) my dad gave me a Ruger Vaquero and suggested I do CAS, but said I shouldn't do anything mounted. It was all very strange as I actually had the perfect mare for it, and it might have got me interested in guns sooner.
The current horse is retired from the show ring but age doesn't translate into a quiet mind. The Vaquero continues to be a "display item" on my bookshelf.
Years ago (before I had any interest in guns) my dad gave me a Ruger Vaquero and suggested I do CAS, but said I shouldn't do anything mounted. It was all very strange as I actually had the perfect mare for it, and it might have got me interested in guns sooner.
The current horse is retired from the show ring but age doesn't translate into a quiet mind. The Vaquero continues to be a "display item" on my bookshelf.
Somebody mentioned a 22lr category, and that MIGHT tempt me to try it a time or 2. I could buy or borrow those guns fairly easy. But I just don't need to buy 2,000+ in guns and leather to get started. Now if you hooked me on the little stuff...
Zundfolge
Member
Justin
Moderator Emeritus
The equestrian sports are, as I understand it, a separate game under the purview of SASS.
Philly Slim
Member
I've see a couple of folks say it's too much trouble coming up with an alias. You already have an alias. Just use your user name from here.
Also, it sould be pointed out that there are three different "sports" under the banner of SASS.
The Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) is the overall governing body. It's run by a group of gentlemen called The Wild Bunch. This group of men used to be HEAVILY into IPSC, IDPA and other modern shooting sports. After their normal matches they'd go back to someone's house, sip whiskey, smoke cigars and watch old western movies. One day one of them got the bright idea of shooting thier modern matches with the old cowbody guns they had laying around. They had a blast. Not long after that they formed SASS and the rest is history.
Now under the banner of SASS you have three completely different and separate sports.
Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS): two sixguns, a lever rifle and a double barrel, model 1887 lever or 1897 pump shotgun. Minimum costume requirements are a pair of jeans, long sleeve button down shirt and a pair of work boots. That's it, nothing more is required. You don't have to wear a hat and you don't have to wear cowboy boots.
Cowboy Mounted Shooting: Sort of the same as above except you do your shooting while riding a horse as fast as you can. Targets are baloons and rounds are black powder blanks.
Wild Bunch Action Shooting (WBAS): This is the newest sport under the SASS banner and is just now in its infancy. It's based off Sam Peckinpah's movie of the same name. (Remember the group of men who started SASS who call themselves The Wild Bunch. Guess what their favorite movie was. ) This is different from CAS in that it's a game for all you who hate mousephart loads. This is a big bore game. Required guns are Model 1897 pump shotgun, lever action rifle of .40 caliber or higher and a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. Minimum power factor is 150. That's a 200 grain bullet @ 750 fps. That's a MINIMUM. Not what I'd call a mousephart. Lots of movement during the stages and lots of reactive targets. So flirting with the minimum loads will probably come back to bite you in the butt.
If you don't do anything else, at least go out and watch one of the three. If it's still not your cup of tea, at least you gave it a look. That's all anyone can ask.
Also, it sould be pointed out that there are three different "sports" under the banner of SASS.
The Single Action Shooting Society (SASS) is the overall governing body. It's run by a group of gentlemen called The Wild Bunch. This group of men used to be HEAVILY into IPSC, IDPA and other modern shooting sports. After their normal matches they'd go back to someone's house, sip whiskey, smoke cigars and watch old western movies. One day one of them got the bright idea of shooting thier modern matches with the old cowbody guns they had laying around. They had a blast. Not long after that they formed SASS and the rest is history.
Now under the banner of SASS you have three completely different and separate sports.
Cowboy Action Shooting (CAS): two sixguns, a lever rifle and a double barrel, model 1887 lever or 1897 pump shotgun. Minimum costume requirements are a pair of jeans, long sleeve button down shirt and a pair of work boots. That's it, nothing more is required. You don't have to wear a hat and you don't have to wear cowboy boots.
Cowboy Mounted Shooting: Sort of the same as above except you do your shooting while riding a horse as fast as you can. Targets are baloons and rounds are black powder blanks.
Wild Bunch Action Shooting (WBAS): This is the newest sport under the SASS banner and is just now in its infancy. It's based off Sam Peckinpah's movie of the same name. (Remember the group of men who started SASS who call themselves The Wild Bunch. Guess what their favorite movie was.
) This is different from CAS in that it's a game for all you who hate mousephart loads. This is a big bore game. Required guns are Model 1897 pump shotgun, lever action rifle of .40 caliber or higher and a 1911 chambered in .45 ACP. Minimum power factor is 150. That's a 200 grain bullet @ 750 fps. That's a MINIMUM. Not what I'd call a mousephart. Lots of movement during the stages and lots of reactive targets. So flirting with the minimum loads will probably come back to bite you in the butt. If you don't do anything else, at least go out and watch one of the three. If it's still not your cup of tea, at least you gave it a look. That's all anyone can ask.
OP
OP
J-Bar
Member
SASS Mounted Shooters use .45 blanks shooting at balloons while riding their horses through a gymkhana-like course.
http://www.sassnet.com/mounted_news.php
Cowboy Action Shooters use live ammo on steel targets with our feet on the ground:
http://www.sassnet.com/sass_news_article.php?New-SASS-Home-Page-82
You can find clubs near you on the "Affiliated Clubs" tab on the SASS home page.
You can find ALL (well, most all!!) the rules in the Handbook under the "SASS Handbooks" tab on the home page.
http://www.sassnet.com/mounted_news.php
Cowboy Action Shooters use live ammo on steel targets with our feet on the ground:
http://www.sassnet.com/sass_news_article.php?New-SASS-Home-Page-82
You can find clubs near you on the "Affiliated Clubs" tab on the SASS home page.
You can find ALL (well, most all!!) the rules in the Handbook under the "SASS Handbooks" tab on the home page.
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