Why Berdan Primers

[TooTaxed]

One reason I got my CETME was to take advantage of surplus reloadable ammo, as I reload most of my ammo. SURPRISE!!! Only the US, and India, use Boxer priming...and the US doesn't currently have any surplus ammo on the market...and the quality of the Indian ammo is highly suspect (posts have provided photos of a CETME, FAL, and MG-42 allegedly blown up attributed to the Indian ammo).

Quality 7.62 x 51 NATO (.308 Win) surplus that I know of comes from Australia, Portugal, and South Africa...all berdan primed and non-reloadable, and not inexpensive ($140-$190/thousand). Most other nations, including Russia, use berdan priming...why? Is there some superiority of berdan over boxer priming?

 

[Dave R]

The really crazy thing is that Mr. Berdan, who invented those primers, is an American. And the guy who invented Boxer priming is from UK. Go figger.

I think the only advantage of Berdan priming is two holes instead of one.

The big disadvantage is non-reloadable. Or technically, reloadable with specialized, expensive equipment.

If you can ever find Hirtenberger surplus, its boxer-primed and reloadable.

 

[mrapathy2000]

cetme is not the best gun to reload for. fluted chamber.

you can reload berdan primed casings though people make it sound impossible and it is not. might be a chore but hey reloading pretty much is anyway so you have a few extra steps and each case you try and deprime wont come out reuseable still get some back.

I was thinking of getting a saiga 308 and cetme but have tossed that idea.

reason being. cetme fluted chamber would chew up brass and I wouldnt want to reload for it. you can use commercial brass in cetme though forget reloading it unless you want a new paper weight. commercial brass is not as thick as military. after round is shot the casing will stay in fluted chamber bit better and the case head will come off nicely leaving nice suprise behind.

their are couple shops that will resize and prime berdan for you not sure what it cost.

http://www.midwayusa.com/rewriteaproduct/245983
rcbs berdan depriming tool.

can find some info in google groups and search handload section here and glocktalk. someone handloads 5.45x39 and 7.62x39 with berdan primers and might be helpfull.

if you try it let me know what die and how resizing the shells works after its been through fluted chamber.

 

[Triad]

I suspect that the Berdan primed cartridges are less costly to manufacture. Boxer priming requires the anvil to be made separately and inserted into the primer, while Berdan priming creates the anvil at the same time the flash holes are made.

 

[patentnonsense]

Are the pocket dimensions compatible?
If you decap a Berdan (and drill a flash hole), can you reprime it with a Boxer??

Seems like the drilling and decapping could be done with two stations on a progressive press - a 1050 e.g.

 

[Jim Watson]

No.
Few Berdan primers are the same diameter as US Boxers.
The integral anvil in a Berdan case sticks up in the middle of the primer pocket.

It has been done, if the Berdan pocket is a smaller diameter than a .210" large Boxer, to hammer down the anvil with a punch, which fills in the two or three Berdan flash holes. Then drill a center flash hole and ream the pocket to the right diameter. Phew.

There are some black powder calibers that have been converted from Berdan to take a battery cup shotshell primer. Others have had the primer pocket bored out completely and a bushing with Boxer primer pocket driven in. The bushings are usually made out of common cartridge cases, saving steps in cutting the primer pocket and flash hole. I read of one case where the bushing was just the head and rim of a .22 Hornet. Low pressure loads only, of course.

Not something to do on a progressive.
Not something to do if there is ANY source of Boxer brass or a supply of the right size of Berdan primers. Decapping and recapping Berdan is not as easy as Boxer, but it can be done.

Another reason for the Berdan primer is that it holds more priming compound. That was important in some of the early development of non-corrosive primers, but no longer matters much.

 

[444]

I have tried to reload Berdan primed cases. 7.5 Swiss.
It isn't hard, and it isn't expensive. I bought the RCBS tool mentioned by mrapathy2000.
However, I then found out that I couldn't find anyone that sold Berdan primers in the US. I posted on the subject, and was given some advice on where to look, but when I called everyone mentioned, they didn't have them.
This has become a moot point for me since I was able to buy 500 cases (Boxer primed cases) from Graffs.

 

[TooTaxed]

Fluted Chamber

I was surprised to find that my CETME chamber doesn't deform military brass, though it does leave dark flute marks visible on the fired cases...powder marks? I've rolled the cases down slight inclines...cases roll smoothly. There may be more of a problem with commercial brass, but I haven't fired enough to notice. Should be no problem to resize...

Like "444", I also once considered reloading berdan, but could not determine a source of primers. Someone had recommended filling the cases with water, insertng a tightly fitting dowel, and wacking it with a hammer...water pressure supposedly pops the primers out, then you resize. Sounds messy...never actually tried it. Boxer repriming is certainly easier!

 

[mrapathy2000]

not sure if CCI has berdan primers they list no 34 and 41 military primers for 5.56 and 7.62.

http://www.cci-ammunition.com/html/products/primers/primer_chart.htm
http://www.cci-ammunition.com/default.asp?menu=1&s1=3&pg=10&prod_id=30

http://www.ows-ammunition.com/cgi-b...session=407caa8741d2b03b&L=eng&Category=80000

swear I had couple more links but couldnt find them.

if you really want to reload some try searching the handloading section here,glocktalk and google groups.

might find info by also searching for 7.62x39 or 5.45x39.

 

[Gary G23]

Berdan is more reliable. It is my understanding that the Russian military actually uses Berdan corrosive primers as they are much more reliable in cold temperatures.

 

[Sunray]

"...you can reload berdan primed casings though people make it sound impossible..." Not impossible, just a pain in the neck. Berdan primers aren't easy to come by and far more expensive. At least, up here.
Military ball ammo was never intended to be reloaded and it's made to be fired out of any military firearm. Be it a rifle or an MG. The primer has to stay put and go bang every time.
No, drilling a new hole makes the hole too big and it's unreliable.

 

[patentnonsense]

No, drilling a new hole makes the hole too big and it's unreliable.

The flash hole??
Why would a big flash hole be bad?
Is that because of loose powder shifting around in the case?