Why buy a gun?

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Chinaski said,

"NGO involvement in humanitarian infrastrature development programs destroy all local markets for the same things they provide. These include food markets (local farmers can't compete with the foreign food, so the farmers end up joining the ranks of the refugees"

I'm sorry, but this just doesn't bide with common sense. Assuming that the majority of the money actually goes to providing stuff for the kid, they would not be able to do anything with $28 a day if they didn't buy local stuff. Importing goods from the US costs much more than buying it local (in Haiti for instance). As stated earlier I actually met the kid my youth group sponsored, we went swimming together. It was the same kid on the photo, so what you're saying doesn't make sense.

Anyway, this debate is changing the focus of the thread. The same argument could be made for me using the $360 to buy wool blankets for homeless guys or giving to the 3rd world debt relief stuff like you said. Bottom line: it seems more likely that such charitable acts would save a life than my having a gun would. Or is it? That is what the question was.

Jeff
 
seems more likely that such charitable acts would save a life than my having a gun would. Or is it? That is what the question was
Click to expand...

My contention was and still is -you can't contribute if you ain't here.

Bad things happen to good people. Too many members here on THR never thought they'd own a gun, some were anti-gun, and some just lukewarm about guns.
Unfortunely some had a rude awakening, to themself or someone close. Sometimes that happens and one does not get a 2nd chance when they wake up dead.

CRSam said it best: One never knows the where and when of their next encounter.

That was and still is my reply.

It's a personal choice YOU have to make.

I have, and I have the mindset to go along with my decison. I have been encountered, and I had a gun. I'm not the only one here at THR either to have BTDT.
 
Several comments.

I agree with Preacherman and some others. Most of these charities use the bulk of their monies on adminsitrative tasks (several are nothing but scams for the directors). Perfectly legal. But is it the best way to help someone?

You cannot help anyone if you are injured or killed. Your first priority must be your own safety. This is not selfish. This is cold, hard, fact.

There are people in Seattle who would do unspeakable things to you for no reason at all if they had the opportunity. Your great misfortune may someday be to give them the opportunity by being in the wrong place at the wrong time. This is not an abstract worry. Take a look at the FBI website. Go to the Uniform Crime Report. Talley the total of the 8 index crimes (robbery, rape, murder, car theft, aggrevated assault, etc.). This exercise should get your attention.

Finally, it's laudable to want to help those less fortunate than yourself. However, there are plenty of people who need your help in your city. Why not help them? In addition to the money you contribute, contribute your time. Time and personal interaction has a far more lasting and positive impact than money, given that the person has basic food, shelter, etc. And it's very rewarding.

There are many groups from Big Brothers/Big Sisters to Habitat for Humanity that would love to see you 8 hours a month.

I regards to CCW. A revolver can be a good choice. I'd go with a 38 instead of a 357 mag. Less blast, less flash. It will do the job with proper ammo and shot placement. But you'll need to get some training too. Fortunately for you, Insights is located in Bellevue. Excellent training. Highly recommend you get this before you carry.

Good luck.
 
Gotta agree w/Preachermand & ExDoc

Although I have no personal experience with any of these
organizations.
I have seen 'slums/cardboard villages in other parts of the
world and when an ad comes on, a question comes to mind;
How is MY child getting money, food, medicine, schooling., etc
in one of these areas when NO ONE else is (sometimes for
miles around) ?????
Just doesn't make sense. My child is gonna be OK but
EVERYONE around him/her is still starving/suffering etc.
Sorry, Lord please forgive my hard cynical heart but I just
can't buy it. The ads seem to be targeted to evoke
sympathy, pain, guilt to get money.
Try a little test - ask one of these organizations if you can
send clothing, food, books etc DIRECTLY to the child instead
of giving them money. $10 says the answer is 'NO, you have to
go through us 'cause we can use the $ more efficiently'
You can then decide if you trust this/these charitie(s).
 
Good points Chinaski!! Jeff, he's giving you the straight skinny. I know its counterintuitive, but its true. What he's talking about is bringing US inflation to isolated areas. What happens is that you have cultures which are stable for a thousand years, then outsiders come in and make their traditionally valuable goods and services worthless. This is the sort of thing which produces economic conditions leading to slave labor, prostitution and drug abuse.

Good search words to look up would be "cargo cult", "indigenous peoples", "prime directive" (as in Star Fleet's prime directive), "Appalachian culture + TVA + welfare", "Nike+ slave labor"

Jeff, back on topic, from the context of your religious book, John 12:2-8:
There they made him a supper; and Martha served: but Lazarus was one of them that sat at the table with him. Then took Mary a pound of ointment of spikenard, very costly, and anointed the feet of Jesus, and wiped his feet with her hair: and the house was filled with the odour of the ointment. Then saith one of his disciples, Judas Iscariot, Simon's son, which should betray him, Why was not this ointment sold for three hundred pence, and given to the poor? This he said, not that he cared for the poor; but because he was a thief, and had the bag, and bare what was put therein. Then said Jesus, Let her alone: against the day of my burying hath she kept this. For the poor always ye have with you; but me ye have not always.
 
Helping the poor

At your age, the best thing you can do for the poor is build yourself into a productive person. Would the poor be better off if Wozniak and Jobs had donated their computer-hobby money to the poor? Of course not.

In fact this is usually the best thing you can do at any age; if there are more people like you starting businesses, there will be more jobs and fewer poor.

And right now if you live in a bad area, then part of staying productive is keeping yourself safe from crime.
 
MolonLabe416

I am thinking about a .38 but will probably get a .357 just for the flexibility. Even if I just shoot .38's through it I will be able to "kick it up a notch" if need be.

I'm starting to think that you guys are right, getting a gun enables me to stay alive so I can continue to give and "build myself into a productive person" in the words of telomerase. I plan to look up those FBI stats later, but for now I'm at work and need to get back to work.

Jeff
 
"Who is helping you out?"

My parents, myself (via school loans I will repay later). I realize what you're getting at. I'm not interested in helping those who won't help themselves. I'm interested in helping those who can't help themselves - trying to get them in a situation where they can help themselves.

Jeff
 
>I'm interested in helping those who can't help themselves - trying to get them in a situation where they can help themselves.

The best way to help the poor is to hire them. While there are a few people who can't work at all, most of the unemployed would love to have a productive life, self-respect, a chance to move up, etc. This also has the advantage of actually creating wealth instead of just taking it from one person and moving it around... otherwise you're just taking money that could have gone to cancer research or something else with a lasting impact, and blowing it on your own pet giveaway.
 
telomerase,

Hiring someone is the best way to help someone because it enables them to help themselves, but some people need other help to get them in the position where they can get hired. For example, in my experiences with homeless people many of them want to get a job but simply do not know how. They don't realize that submitting an application is just the first step and even if they do realize that they need to follow up on the application they are so nervous about that prospect that they are incapable of doing that follow up in a way that would be beneficial. (i.e. "being too nervous to present yourself in a good light). Many of them also do not understand basic concepts of hygiene and are totally ignorant of how to prepare for an interview. When people are like this, just hiring them does not help because if they weren't prepared to get the job on their own they won't be prepared to do the job either.

All this just to say that charity is not just some "pet giveaway" it is very needed because some people cannot "get a job." But this whole discussion is getting away from the purpose of the thread. Speaking of which, I have decided to buy a gun and applied for my ccw today. About three weeks from now I will be carrying.

Jeff
 
abaddon,

Buy your gun so you can protect yourself. Follow Zach S's advice. There are plenty of ways to help out that don't involve any out of pocket expense.
 
A few thoughts, slightly OT

Abaddon:
I really admire the way you are thinking. Believe me that I understand these kinds of calculations.
If you are serious about helping then you must think long-term. If this is how you plan to approach life -- and it would be better if more people did --then you may improve thousands and thousands of lives over a few decades.
Obviously you should take everything you read here with a grain of salt (at least when it comes to international charities). One really neat thing you could do, that would be good experience for other work later, would be to research where the money really goes for a few different organizations. If there's one you are really impressed with, you might convince some of us to chip in also.
Buy a gun if you think that is a cost-effective way of reducing the overall risk to your life. If you drive and don't wear seat belts, or ride without a helmet (including bicycles) then a gun is probably a waste of money.
A few months ago Clayton Cramer had a very detailed series about how to save on expenses. It's in his archive somewhere (maybe www.claytoncramer.com ?)

Can I assume you are at UW? What are you studying?
 
I might sound like a complete selfish ???, but screw the extra kid and buy a gun. its great that you want to help them out, but if it were me i'd be taking care of #1 first. cant sponsor even one kid if you get killed or maimed (by BGS) and werent able to prevent it with your new ccw gun.
 
As was said before, most of the "save the children" charities overseas are mostly scams, please check to see if you are really helping a child or if you are helping a dictator. When they searched the homes of the sons of sadamn, they found huge amounts of "charity" things, especially from Unicef.

Also, I think that helping those in your community is far more important then anyone overseas. Most countries get billions in aid from the US, which usually ends up in the un's pockets and the pockets of the "government" in that country. Even though we have a "welfare system" here in the US, most of the people that us it are abusing the system. I bet you can find plenty of children in your area that need a big brother, Tutoring (since you're a college person), etc.. Walk in the halls of some of these hospitals that are not fond of children (reg. hosp. not shriners(sp) or real children hospitals) and hear as the admin staff tell the parents of these kids that their insurance doesn't cover this or that and they can't (won't) do anything. You can give them the money even if it only pays for their parking in the garage, which doesn't care if your kid is dieing, they only care for your cash to get out just to go home. I'm not against helping the world, but there are too many Americans that need help in our own backyard that don't get billions in aid money, which the people in the other country don't see anyway.

As for the gun. That is your decision. We can quote the Bible, explain that if you get killed or disablied that you won't be able to help anyway, etc.. The decision to take your own security, your own responsiblity for your life, is in your hands. Granted, you may never have to use your weapon for defense in your entire life, but G-d forbide if you find yourself in a situation where one could have come in handy. Don't get me wrong, I'm not trying to use "scare tactics" on you in order to buy a gun. I'm just trying to say that it's up to you to decide.

But, first and foremost, check into that charity to ensure that you're not spending 80+% on "admin" costs and the child is only getting 20-%, if that.

M
 
The concept of giving to the poor is commendable. The application of the concept breeds parasites. It is not a cross the board donation. People are solicited to donate money, and people are solicited to donate their life to do a hands on spread of the wealth. Wedged between the donor and the volunteer lives the administration. They are drawing salaries siphoned off the donations. That means you are not only helping some poor kid, but also the administrators with salaries that best your own many times over. I personally have always had a problem with paying someone to give my money away for the sake of charity.

Capitalism at it's best. Receive a product, skim a profit margin off the top, distrubute what's left.

For just one bite of a bologna sandwich you provided some poor child, the adminstration has fed his family steak.
 
If you still feel that strongly about your convictions, join the US Army as a Medic. I personally have provided medical aid to thousands around the world in need; sometimes working side-by-side with US missionaries. Healing infections, providing dental care, teaching personal hygene to the impoverished was a big part of my military career. I am glad to say I saved many lives vs. taking them (though I would if required). Then you can advance your career, help the needy, and train with firearms and get paid (OK maybe not much).:D
 
Have you heard of the "Sponsor a Gun" program? You send $30 dollars a month. Get a photo of you sponsored gun. You can write letters to your sponsored gun, read replys from your gun about it's adventures, and for most within a year you can take it home
Click to expand...

My! What a marvelous idea! I think I will sponsor a gun. In fact, I believe that I will sponsor several guns; perhaps, an entire family of guns. And I will start with Springfield Armory guns. Now, I must decide, which SA gun I should "save" first. What a dilema!!
 
I initially clicked into this thread, thinking it was yet another "why I have gun threads" to post a glib reply to the literal question, "Why buy a gun?" with the response "Because if you steal one, you'll become a criminal", but I see that this is actually a thoughtful thread.

The geek's .02, in bullet points:

-Kudos on taking a wider view, and giving charity a high priority.

-Beware scams

-Charity begins at home

-As a student, your first priority is to your existence, and then to your education, which will make you a much more effective player later. The good you do now is but a small fraction of the good you will do over your whole lifetime.

-Reluctantly, I've acknowledged that I can't solve the whole worlds problems, but I do have a whole lot to say about what's within arm's reach. I find it a fulltime job to to keep myself, my family, my house, my business & people in order, in roughly that sequence. Anything good I manage to do on top of that is gravy.

-I'd argue that posession of & proficiency with your sidearm in preparation for your personal defense is a significant part of your overall education, and "rounding out" as a full fledged human being, and if you're ready for it, by all means, proceed!

Sometimes, I have a hard time viewing someone who isn't at least mentally prepared to defend their existence as complete and prepared to be truly contend with the non playskool world.
 
Why buy a gun? Because it's hard to find someone who will give you one for free.

:)

Having said that, I don't trust any of those 'sponsor a kid' programs.
 
For those curious about the organization I donate to go here http://www.compassion.com/about/financial/default2.htm it is their financial information and reveals that they only spend 10% on administration costs. As I said I would earlier I talked to my youth pastor and confirmed that Compassion International is the same organization that we used for the child I met while in Haiti. So now I know that the organization is in contact with the child and if 80% of the money I give goes towards "program expenses" for that child. I am sending an email to Compassion to ask what "program expenses" means, but I think it is the actual charity stuff. I still think that this is good not just for the child, but also for the country as a whole. The kid is being educated and is getting medical care and when he grows up he will be equipped to better help his country (Haiti).

manwithoutahome:
Helping with medical costs in America is a good idea, I may look into that.

On capitalism:
Freely donating to the people who need it IS capitalism at it's best. Capitalism is the best economic system out there, but it is not perfect and people will fall between the cracks. People who voluntarily give to those who genuinely need it and have not been given a fair shake can help to bring the capitalist system closer to perfection. As stated earlier, the goal of true charity is not to give a hand out, it is to enable people to help themselves.

I agree with Geekwitha.45, the ability to defend oneself is part of being a well-rounded and well educated person.

On that subject, to answer Dilettante, I actually go to SPU. I am Double-majoring in Philosophy and Political Science.

You're right Ed, it is really hard to find someone who will give you a gun for free. I like Keith's idea, start a charity to give guns to the working poor. We could call it "GunVision".
 
Luke 22:36 is often taken out of context, the reason he wanted them to get a sword wasn't for their defense, they wanted to appear to be criminals and since carrying a sword was a crime that was one of the best ways to do it.

while that verse is a poor verse to use to argue the right of self defense there's lots of stuff in the old testament about things like "if a man fails to protect his family he will be in the same moral boat as the attacker"
 
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