Children in an adult gun site?

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Impureclient, why are you so adamant that we not let "children" peruse our site? Would you rather that the firearm community wither and die because we shun the young people?
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Larry--That is an outstanding post. My children, 8 and 11, are well educated in the proper handling of firearms as well. While I take normal precautions, I have no concern with my children safely conducting themselves around firearms due to their freaquent training.

I welcome our young additions & think it is great that we have a future generation taking an interest, but I am a little concerned with some of the immediate responses without some additional questioning. The OP in the thread being discussed was looking for a SHTF weapon, and acknowledged being 14.

A few appropriate questions might be warranted before encourging the kid to "go with the M1". With younger participants present, I think it is appropriate for us to take care to ensure our advice and answers explore a little to ensure we are not leading the young where they may be unprepared to go.
 
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There are LOTS of places kids should not be a part of but this isn't one of them! We are not a bunch of drooling Klansmen and for the most part offer solid information on many topics like hunting, reloading and yes personal defense. If a young person is interested there is NO BETTER place on the internet to ask such questions. I agree that the first place a child should trun for such questions are parents but not all parents are equiped or willing to handle such questions either. Here anyone young or old can ask questions in a responsible, MODERATED enviornment and get good answers to reasonable questions.
 
At the end of the day, the parent is responsible for educating their child. Period.

I certainly wouldn't want the moderators here to "moderate" my children or try to "protect" them. Quite frankly, that's my job. Ironically many of the moderators think that we're a bunch of children as it is and it's their job to protect us. Go figure, huh? It's somewhat disquieting that the final word is often "this topic isn't suitable for 'THE HIGH ROAD'..." Whatever that means.

Whether the content here (or elsewhere) is good, bad, or somewhere in the middle, it's the role of the parent to teach the child, right? I'd hate to think that a child would come here (or elsewhere on the internet) to educate themselves on what we all like about the 2nd Amendment. There's a world of difference between reading something (that might have been written by a moron...) and having a trusted responsible adult show you the way.

And then there's the added worry about children having conversations with adults on the internet - especially if their parents don't know about the conversations.

My $0.02.
 
This is Josh, my nephew:

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Please let me know where we went wrong with this. If this is somehow wrong, society is severely screwed up.
 
As far as parental permission to post here....the parents should be monitoring their kid's internet access. This can be done without software. Just use a spare old PC, set it up as a gateway...all the computers have to go through it to get to the router. This PC will log all traffic and what computer it came from (including time/date stamps and subpages requested). This is basic stuff to setup....a person who's willing to spend a weekend can setup a gateway like this, and it will provide loads of insight in the places their kids are going (so they are better equipped to handle such things).

That said, it's a good things that they are at least talking to a community that's as level headed as THR. Would we rather they get ran off to JimBob's Squirrelplosion Extravaganza? I hope such a forum doesn't exist, but if it did, I'd doubt there would be a very high maturity level...and thus be a bad example.

As far as working on rifle stocks....that's woodworking, it's relevant in many other ways. Maybe someday he'll make a killer bookcase, or decide to make a wooden keyboard or something of the such. Woodworking is applicable to all wooden objects :)

The rest of it, so long as his parental units are cool with it, rock on.
 
Just what has set you off, Impureclient?

What has made you think that a 14 year old can not understand self defense or firearms? My son knew the rules at age 3.

What has made you think that young Younggunner, at 14, cannot understand the rules?

We await answers...
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Set me off? See below
I'm just curious as what opinions are about children being in this site?
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If you will help me I also can't seem the part where I typed about a 14 year old not understanding firearms.
Please reply back with my exact words in a quote to refresh my memory so I can reply correctly, thanks.

P.S. Please post some pictures of a child holding a gun in order to prove nothing more than you know how to operate a camera.
 
Given the age of people I've heard on Xbox Live.....and how they act. I think MORE younger kids should be forced to only be able to use websites like THR, might mellow them out some and teach them some manners.

Seriously, given the games most kids get access to now-a-days, (And I'm saying that at age 19, is that bad?!) trust me, most of them wouldn't bat an eyelash at something talking about shooting a robber in the back....

Now we should keep the graphic pictures out, which we do. But the text isn't hurting them, and it isn't going to affect them nearly as much as some of the things in these games will.

Honestly, I can't think of one good reason to keep 'kids' off this forum...
 
I think I obtained what I was looking for here and I know everybody knows where I stand so I'm going to leave at this and say no more as I'm not going to get ganged up on by every mod in the site and eventually get kicked. So in short, sorry for asking and have a nice day.
 
the internet can be a dangerous place for a kid.

parents need to monitor the kid's internet activities. If a parent who knows the kid best doesn't want their kid on here, so be it. In fact, if a parent were to ever post "Hi I joined because my kid whose screenname is ABCXYZ is a member here and I think some discussions on here are not appropriate for him' I would gladly not respond to any topics or posts by that kid to help that one specific parent.

However, I say let the parent decide. Aside from limiting swear words and pornography, we should be who we are, and the parent who ultimately controls the kid's internet access can determine when and how much THR the kid can access.
 
When I was ten, my next door neighbor, who had a collecion of handguns, rifles, and shotguns, gave me his copy of the first (1944) edition of the Gun Digest.

When I was twelve, I went to a military academy camp and was taught rifle shooting. One of the medals I got was called "Marksman". That was in the summer of 1957. Later that year I was given my grandfather's Marlin Model 39A. For Christmas, I was given a Browning .22 Automatic rifle. Two years later I bought a Model 1903 rifle.

I've ben reading gun magazines, issues of the Gun Digest, and The Shooter's Bible ever since.

We didn't have websites then but we did have publications.

Now, what was the issue, one more time?
 
Larry,
My son is 11 and shoots with me
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Nobody is saying kids shouldn't shoot guns, again this quote above is from my 1st post.

and last count I had 4 mods on this thread. One came in to keep argument to topic and not on me. 3 of them are against my opinion I'll just keep it that way. That is all.
I'm still interested though in the part where I typed about a 14 year old not understanding firearms.
 
Alright, I went back and read all the posts by Impureclient in this thread. By the way I read them these seem to be his main 'concerns'/'issues'/whatever you may choose to call them.

  • Concerned about his children/any children talking about defensive plans with those other then their parents.
  • Concern about the next kid that grabs a gun and goes on a shooting spree getting tips on what to use/how to shoot here.
  • Inappropriate things for kids to see as far as he's concerned, such as threads covering headshots, potentially unsafe practices (sleeping with a gun under a pillow), and SHTF topics, anything involving shooting at another human being for any reason.
  • Kids getting advice for a straw purchase.

I'm going to respond to each of these individually personally.

First one, I don't think ANYONE here claims to be a master tactician and can plan for every contingency concerning defense of every home out there, most of them probably not even every contingency for their own home. If a youngster whose parents trust him enough with a gun he has access to chooses to come in here and discuss their plans, and ask for help with contingencies, good on them I say. They should plan it out with their family too, but getting help with the ideas could very well help them protect themselves/their families down the line. I also think that almost every post in one of those threads always includes something about making sure the entire family knows the plan so none of them get shot accidently. If they follow the advice, then I can't see the harm in it.

Second one, I honestly think we'd all recognize if a kid was just trying to get help on ideas to go on a shooting spree, and even if we didn't, well, I don't think that's the type of kid whose going to come out and say he's 15, and wants to go to the mall to shoot it up...I also can't really think of any situation that anyone can justify asking about what the best position in a school/mall/whatever is to hole up and 'hold off' large amounts of people without arousing almost everyone heres suspicions, and the thread getting locked. For this site, the second one is pretty much a silly suggestion.

Third one, inappropriate topics for kids to see, based on what you wrote seems to include anything SHTF related, shooting another human for any reason, and potentially unsafe practices with guns. Well, as far as SHTF, they don't tend to last too long around here, and seem to mainly concern what the best gun for it is, wheres the best place to hole up/whats the best stuff to stock up with for it, where to avoid, things like that...honestly, it's just silly fantasy/nightmares to me. I also don't see where the harm here is. Especially since as far as the best gun, no one ever settles on just one. If you're worried about this in relation to number 2, well, I think any gun is a bit of a concern for a kid to get and take to shoot people, but given the games they play, I think they're more likely to pick a gun that looks like that 'uber great gun from COD4!' then they are to go and get advice on whats best for home defense or taking down a certain type of game.... I also think, that given the games that most kids play, that shooting a human isn't a taboo subject to them, since they have games they do it in all the time. Its also possible that they're mature enough that they know someday they may need to, and discussing it really isn't going to hurt their psyche anyways. As for the unsafe practices though, well, thats why the threads are THERE, to discuss whether they're unsafe or not. If the kids reading about it and it seems to be popular consent that it's unsafe, they're probably not going to be the one that does it, as opposed to the kid who just thinks "Cool! I should hide a gun under my pillow!" and just goes and does it.

Finally, point four. I really wouldn't consider a kid giving their parent money so the parent can buy a gun for them a straw purchase. As long as the parents in control of the gun, it's their gun....we're not talking about buying a gun for a felon, or Joe from the corner. This is a gun that's going to stay in the same house as the parent that bought it. I also think it shows maturity that the kids saving the money for their own gun. I also don't think the BATFE would consider a parent buying their kid a gun to be a straw purchase...though I have no written opinion from them on that, I haven't exactly seen a court case saying it's illegal or heard to many people claim it is before....

Well, I THINK I hit all your main points, if I missed any, or completly misread your posts, well, I'm sorry, but I tried. In closing I'd just like to sum up all the above as basically reading "There really isn't any harm I can think of coming out of a under-18 member reading this forum, based on what I read your beliefs on what you believe the harm could be."
 
I'm just curious as what opinions are about children being in this site? This site may be a "family" site but I assumed that meant to keep the language clean and so forth in case they wander on or are looking over our shoulder when we peruse in here. There is a lot information on here and some of it is not G rated. Definitely not proper for a young one depending on how you raise your kids.
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THR content is absolutely tame compared to what is constantly available on television. A child's ability to read about "tools used to kill" on THR is totally eclipsed by their ability to hear and see the details of death, murder, and mayhem on a 24/7 smorgasboard of crime and forensic shows on television. And that's not even considering the crude language and behavior on display daily on a large number of big-name news and commentary shows.

Ah, who cares what I think. I grew up in a distant time when cartoons like Bugs Bunny, The Roadrunner, and Tom and Jerry were thought to be safe fare for kids; little did my parents suspect the immense damage they were inflicting on my young psyche.
 
Kids who shoot, be that with the da, ma or Scouts, etc., don't get into trouble with the law. Kids who seek information from reputable sources are to be commended. It's even better if the kid then reads the books that are recommended.
"...tools used to kill..." Nonsense. That's an anti-firearm ownership group mantra. Has nothing to do with reality. Far more firearms are used for recreational target shooting than are used for hunting.
 
AKElroy said:
Larry--That is an outstanding post. My children, 8 and 11, are well educated in the proper handling of firearms as well. While I take normal precautions, I have no concern with my children safely conducting themselves around firearms due to their freaquent training.

I welcome our young additions & think it is great that we have a future generation taking an interest, but I am a little concerned with some of the immediate responses without some additional questioning. The OP in the thread being discussed was looking for a SHTF weapon, and acknowledged being 14.

A few appropriate questions might be warranted before encourging the kid to "go with the M1". With younger participants present, I think it is appropriate for us to take care to ensure our advice and answers explore a little to ensure we are not leading the young where they may be unprepared to go.
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I agree. My kids were trained to respect firearms, and not be afraid of them, They are 21 and 23 now AND BOTH HAVE CARRY PERMITS, and a much more modern collections than I do.

Just a couple weeks ago there was a news story about an 8 yr, old that grabbed his mother's 38 and hid in a closet with his little sister. When the intruders opened the closet door, one of them got 38 reasons to split. They were caught and arrested. My only issue was, who would leave an 8 yr. old home to babysit his 5 yr. old sister.
 
death, murder, and mayhem on a 24/7 smorgasboard of crime and forensic shows on television
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In fact, I recall a story I saw on FOX News either late last year or early this year in which a crazed man in Israel stole a bulldozer and went on a rampage, only to be stopped by an IDF reservist with a pistol. FOX played the footage of the reservist jumping into the cab of the dozer and firing directly into the head of the rampaging bulldozer man, splattering the contents of his skull all over the rear of the cab.

This is the kind of thing shown on the nightly news on a regular basis. No one has to worry about their kids seeing something comparable to that on THR. (Except those negligent discharge threads, which I think are actually a good thing for kids to see.)
 
There's an infinite number of sources for a child can receive information about firearms. If all children got their information from The High Road, the world would be a much better place. Or at the least, there'd be far fewer mall ninjas out there.

We can only wish we could get more kids receiving their firearms education here.

Please let me know where we went wrong with this. If this is somehow wrong, society is severely screwed up.
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Here's wearing a Yankees hat - that's all I see wrong with that pic.
 
Ok this thread is taking off like a rocket here. What we are discussing though isnt kids on THR, its kids on the internet PERIOD.

Kids on the internet are like kids watching movies, reading books, looking at magazines, and playing video games. Pretty much all print or digital media exposure presents the same potential issue that the child may encounter material of which the child is not fit to understand, material that may be above their maturity level (obscene, pornographic, morally dubious), or that their parent may not approve of for some reason or another. The solution is that the parents of the child need to monitor how much and what media the child has access to. The content providers of non-broadcast television (HBO, Pay-per view) are not responsible for who purchases and views their content, that is up to the consumer. We have ratings on movies and video games which limit who can purchase them, however that doesn't stop a kid from getting ahold of them.

If we are looking for an "Answer" I would say to rate this site on a PG-13 level (and technically the entire internet is PG-13, you have to have adult verification to make an email account).

---the reason I stated non-broadcast television is because their rules are different from regular broadcast channels such as public access, and over-the-air ABC, NBC, and FOX. The same difference applies to content rules of FM/AM Radio compared to subscription satellite radio.
 
i'm pretty sure we knew who the Dark Knight is...i even rememeber when he was really dark...that's what made your statement so funny.

next you'll have us believe that witches and dragons don't exist
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Although Batman may have been dark at some points in his career, the fact remains that he always stood for justice, and to protect the citizens of gotham city. Some of his more notorious rivals required him to take on a more fearful persona. But the fact remains, Batman embraced fear, he uses it to create an image, to terrorize those who would harm others, he gives them something to be afraid of. They think twice knowing that batman could be anywhere. His dark persona and methods are not a device of evil but his way of fighting crime, rather than take on every single thug one by one, he becomes a fear, that could be anywhere, to terrorize every last one of them.

And once again, I still have not found a good reason, in years of browsing gun forums, why "SHTF" is a topic worthy of posting.
 
Let's take a step back and try to understand Impure's point of view ........


Younggunner is 14 and made posts on the following:

1. He talks about purchasing a firearm with his own money.

I just bought a Springfield XDm while I was home on leave and Form 4473 asks on question 12a if the person on the form is the actual person purchasing the firearm. As defined on Important Notice #1, page 3, Form 4473, this purchase would not be a legal transaction and I would advise anyone against doing it.


2. He talks about being "backup" for a LEO and an FBI agent in a SHTF scenario.

How many of you, mods included, would discuss this type of thing with a 14 year old? I know there are some of you here that are probably LE, and I have to ask ..... would you let a 14 year old kid be your backup even if the SHTF? My oldest will be 14 in December and even though he's incredibly smart and a really good shooter, there are some things, like taking another person's life if the "SHTF" really happens, that are really too deep to discuss with someone this young, much less discuss about online.



Now if the topic was "Would an M1C be good for feral hog hunting?", or "What caliber of shotgun is good for turkey hunting?" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. And IMHO, I think this is what Impure was trying to get at ..... that there are some things that this kid's parents need to discuss with him because we aren't his parents or legal guardians and it would be improper for us to discuss it with someone this young.



Kris
 
Now if the topic was "Would an M1C be good for feral hog hunting?", or "What caliber of shotgun is good for turkey hunting?" then we wouldn't be having this discussion. And IMHO, I think this is what Impure was trying to get at ..... that there are some things that this kid's parents need to discuss with him because we aren't his parents or legal guardians and it would be improper for us to discuss it with someone this young.
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My thoughts exactly.
 
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