Why Colt Will Fail!

[45auto]

There's no prize or payoff for being the largest seller of 1911's. They need to continue to produce high(er) quality of products and make money. From what I read about Kimber, it may be a "curse" to be the leader anyway.

IMHO, they are headed in the right direction, although too slow. They are not going to be price competitive with Kimber or Springfield so they need to be the best...people do and will pay more for Colts, at least a reasonable amount more. Their price on the new series 70 is laughable, the WWI and II are properly priced IMO.

I believe they sell quite an amazing amount of 1911s given the fact, in my area anyway, virtually no one stocks them and they only offer mil-spec guns with none of the features most people want...priced close to most "loaded" models and well above other mil-spec's.
Imagine if they actually had models with the proper features and you could actually buy one at the gunshop.
They also have discontinued many models that could probably sell.

They should stay away from plastic, DAO, double stacked guns. Who wants to compete with Glock, Sig etc ? They don't have the cash or marketing/distribution knowledge to distribute a gun like Sprinfield(XD) so why bother!

I hope they "stay". If not, that would leave only Kimber as the last large 1911 american manufacturer... and Kimber has decided for you that you will have a firing pin safety activated by the grip safety, external extractor, front serrations, etc. I wasn't aware a lot of the consumers(us) had "asked" for all that.

 

[Lone Star]

Majic-


As for Venturino not mentioning Remington Rolling Blocks, you obviously haven't seen the cover of his, "Shooting Buffalo Rifles of the Old West", or read that book. It also includes several other makes as well as Sharps, in several forms and a number of calibers.

He also has two outstanding revolver books covering Old West Guns. One is even called, "Shooting Colt Single Actions"! The other also includes guns of other makes, and I think his comments on Remington, Merwin and Hulbert, and S&W guns have indeed not been published, certainly not to the degree with which he delves into them. I FINALLY learned why Remingtons probably weren't more popular!

His books are available from him. I'm not sure if I can post the address in this forum, but he has ads in, "Shooting Times" and other magazines. Each book sells for roughly $25-30 and is worth it.

I'm not going to argue with you about my posts. You're free to believe as you please. Those with an open mind might want to see what Mike has to say. He does indeed have some new twists on old topics.

Lone Star

 

[natedog]

45auto, the NRM Government Model retails for $500. Run a search, you'll find that everyone has said the same things about the pistol: nice fit, finish, perfect reliability, crips trigger, and good accuracy. Also, I'm any of the MIM parts that Colt has had problems with (early versions had troublesome extractors, I believe) were replaced with machined bar stock. Kimber hasn't made an effort to correct the broken slide stops, sears, hammers, etc.

Some don't like front slide serrations, commander hammers, triggers with holes, gas pedal safeties, etc. The NRM is a good .45 without all the "custom" features that most 1911 makers include, and it retails for at least $100 less than a Springfield "Loaded" and about $200 less than a Kimber Series II.

 

[Mark8252]

Clint Smith's Opinion

Sorry never heard of him either.
If I like a gun I buy it... Mr Smiths opinion is not important to me. Neither is anyone elses opinion (respectfully).
My opinion...my money. Works quite well for me.
I do not see how not knowing Mr Smith has anything to do with how Colt thinks of anyone else.

 

[twoblink]

Yeah, I'm not waiting for the next firearm from Colt..

Let's see... the 1911... just 100 more years before they put out another firearm.. What will it be called? The "Colt 2011"?

 

[45auto]

Natedog:

I agree, the Colt is a very good gun. I "see" them for about $590, when I see them. The Springfield loaded runs @ $650...Kimber a bit more. Prices do vary of course.

Colt needs to add more models with the popular features, and useful in my mind, at a higher price than the other two. IMHO, they could sell quite a few at $100-150 higher than their competition. Keeping in mind, of course, they aren't going to be the largest sellers and they have to be "better".

I believe Colt "knows" all this, "broken record" and all that. I suspect they just don't have the cash flow to properly outfit additional models. They tried it with their XS models I believe. Worst beavertail fit I have ever seen I might add!
If you don't have the "cash", the simplest, easy things become a problem.
I hope they survive in the long run.

 

[EdipisReks]

i'm hoping that the Colt 2011 is some kind of laser.

 

[shep854]

LnoeStar, how long did it take you to get past page 6 (the CobraSkin ad)?

 

[Lone Star]

Shep854-

Thanks for bringing that to my attention; I'd missed that page, and I have a Cobra Gunskin holster that I think is for a S&W K-frame, but the barrel area is molded as if it's for an L-frame with full-lug barrel. (Some limited production K-frame guns also have full-lug barrels, but I can't think of any holsters molded for them.) I use it with a M66, and it's not a loose fit.

I'm troubled that the ad mentions no business address...only a 'phone number.

As for the chick, she seems to be wearing a coat of paint like certain girls in"Sports Illustrated" 's swimsuit issue, but in a camouflage pattern.

I know that new editor Roy Huntington has gotten some flak for running ads with hot girls in them, but it doesn't bother me, provided the ad is in good taste. This one is no big deal, and she is cute.

Lone Star

 

[mec]

Talk about your surgical precision. Colt really hit the mark with this one. The gun companies can safely disregard gun magazines in most cases- only a small percentage of gun people read them but not this time.

Anybody serious enough to think about buying a colt single action has read Venturino about six ways from Sunday. Not only is Venturino the most knowlegeable Colt SSA writer around but he has contributed a great deal to the lore of western firearms in general. He was a technical advisor for Quigley Down Under and has written the book on getting top performance from the old buffalo rifles.
I suspect somebody at Colt Industries is busy trying to fix the situation right now.

A gaff like this one gets a lot of attention. Just look at the number of hits on this string. It combines the two most popular subjects on any gun board (1) ( Name a firearms company) sucks, and; (2) Outer space is a vacumn because gunwriters suck even worse.

 

[BigG]

I don't think the one gaffe is going to put the company under. BTW, Mike Venturino needs to get a model to do his photos. He's a real turn off with his physique, unkempt dress, etc., unless he is the poster boy for redneck chic?

I skip his articles unless I can cover up his pictures. JMTC

 

[Lone Star]

Big G-

You may have a point! Maybe, "Shooting Times" will spring for Mike to hire that Cobra Gunskin model mentioned above...

Lone Star

 

[AirPower]

gun rags aren't like what they used to be....life link between mfg and consumer. now with internet, most people just come find info on places like THR. I've heard of Mike but i'ts not such a big deal if some Colt rep didn't know him by name. Seems like a big publicity opportunity for Mike.

 

[c_yeager]

Anybody serious enough to think about buying a colt single action has read Venturino about six ways from Sunday. Not only is Venturino the most knowlegeable Colt SSA writer around but he has contributed a great deal to the lore of western firearms in general. He was a technical advisor for Quigley Down Under and has written the book on getting top performance from the old buffalo rifles.

Anyone who is in the market for a Colt SAA is going to buy one regardless of wether or not Colt dissed their favorite author. If they werent commited to the Colt name in the first place they would have purchased Rugers and saved a lot of money.

 

[mec]

Could be true. Colt got a good write-up from Wiley Clapp in the American Rifleman a few months ago. On the whole though, Colt does't seem much inclined to dance with the gun magazines. If a person were to choose a single action based on magazine reviews, he would probably be inclined to go with USFA as they are widely promoted as being a lot more true to the original design than the current Colts.

 

[George Hill]

Colt being snobbish? No way!



Colt, FN, Browning, Beretta... some of the worst gun snobs out there.

You guys should visit NAA in Provo. They practically hugged me... showed me the whole operation and the CNC mills and the whole shebang. Those guys are proud of what they make, how they make, and they are gonzo gun nuts. Solid people.

Just wish they made a series of 1911's in .45ACP and an I frame or J frame revolver in .38... that would be too sweeeeet.

 

[Nightcrawler]

Hey Ogre, don't forget HK!

 

[Gatofeo]

For many years, Colt has not only missed the boat on shooter wants and needs, it's gone so far as to figuratively place itself in Death Valley --- away from any water the boat may require.

Everyone knows that the Colt Single Action Army is enormously popular. The Europeans make it by the shipload, for shipment to its residents and the rest of the world.
What does Colt do? Make it a "special order" item. This makes it so unattainable that dealers ask outrageous prices for it. So, few people can afford to buy it.
Yes, I know it's an expensive design to make. Business practices suggest that you sell a widget at twice its manufacturing cost. Or nearly twice its cost.
Given that formula, I find it hard to believe that each Colt SAA costs $500 to $600 to make. Look at the cost of steel, worker wages, local business taxes, manufacturing equipment, heating and air conditioning in the plant and so on ... surely the sum of all those doesn't equal $500 to $600 PER UNIT.
Smith & Wesson recently brought out its classic series of .38 and .44 revolvers, which proved enormously popular. What did Colt do? Nothing! No production of the New Service, Officers Target .38, .32 or .22, M1903 Pocket Pistol, ec. Nothing!
The popularity of cap and ball revolvers is probably at an all-time high. What does Colt do? Discontinue their own entries in this field.
How is it that Kimber can manufacture a 1911 with target sights, enlarged port, target trigger and other refinements for $700 --- but Colt's government model with fixed sights and standard equipment costs $600?
I love the few Colts I have: an Official Police .32 from 1916, an Officers Model .38 target gun from the 1930s and a 2nd generation 1851 Navy made about 1978 (yeah, I know, the rough castings of the frame were done in Italy, but it was shipped to Colt for milling, finishing and assembly and sold by Colt so I consider it a real Colt).
Who among us wouldn't buy a Colt SAA if so many were made that the price dipped to the same as that of Rugers ($400 to $500)?
And offer that same SAA in .17HMR, .22 LR, .22 Magnum, .32 Magnum, .32-20, .357 Magnum, .38-40 (with optional cylinders for .40 S&W or 10mm Auto), .44 Special, .44-40 and .45 Colt. The Colt SAA frame is probably not strong enough, or its cylinder beefy enough, to take the .41 or .44 Magnum but who cares? Let Ruger have that market; it's dominated it for decades, anyway.
And if Colt REALLY wants to sell its guns, roll-stamp on every frame or barrel, "The Right of the People to Keep and Bear Arms Shall Not Be Infringed."
Some tasteful script around the periphery of the cylinder, or along the side of the slide, would look nice and be appreciated by shooters.
As for the AR-15, offer a "combo" version that takes 5.56 and --- with an adaptor --- .22 Long Rifle.
Bring back the little .25 Auto with a titanium frame. Make a slightly larger version chambered for .32 Auto.

Gun manufacturers have lost touch with shooters. They're missing tremendous opportunities. Smith & Wesson seems to have the best ear.
Why hasn't Remington offered its cap and ball and cartridge revolvers?
Why hasn't Winchester offered its 1873 rifle and 97 shotgun? Or offered a newly made M1 Garand or Carbine?
Of course, the big question is, how is it WE shooters can recognize these failings but the manufacturers can't?
Could it be that the manufacturers dont' listen to us?
Why don't we get regular postings from the manufacturers on this very site and other gun sites? The people in the marketing and public relations firms of the gun makers are missing a platinum opportunity.
That whirring sound you hear in the distance is Oliver Winchester, Samuel Colt and John Browning turning over in their graves at about 5,000 rpm. They would NEVER have overlooked an opportunity to reach tens of thousands of shooters in their own home, and to get feedback from them.
But what the heck do I know? I don't have a marketing degree ...
Come to think of it, neither did Oliver, Sam or John ... gee, how did they create a vast manufacturing empire that served the world without one? Must have been a fluke ...

 

[Wildalaska]

How is it that Kimber can manufacture a 1911 with target sights, enlarged port, target trigger and other refinements for $700 --- but Colt's government model with fixed sights and standard equipment costs $600?

How is it? How about...MIM! Hey when ya buying parts that cost a nickel, maybe the cost of the wole product should be 50% less..

Given that formula, I find it hard to believe that each Colt SAA costs $500 to $600 to make. Look at the cost of steel, worker wages, local business taxes, manufacturing equipment, heating and air conditioning in the plant and so on ... surely the sum of all those doesn't equal $500 to $600 PER UNIT.

See above...surely the cost of a Kimber, made with small parts that costs fifty cents, shouldnt be $700...

Remmeber that COLT SAAs are all limited production and hand fitted and have immediate collector value...simply becasue some shooters cant afford them doesnt mean that Colt should cheapen them.,...

WildapplesandorangesAlaska

 

[Majic]

Some tasteful script around the periphery of the cylinder, or along the side of the slide, would look nice and be appreciated by shooters.

Maybe by some, but I believe that most shooters prefer their firearms free of frivilous script. Look at the the amount of people who dislike the warnings found on every Ruger. Commerative models have scripts on them and they have never been great sellers. Even on the resale market they lose a lot of their original price to the common buyer.
The serial number, manufactor's name, name of model, and chambering designation is all that most want on their firearms. The rest can be printed in the manual and on the box.

 

[Old Fuff]

With the possible exception of Gaston Glock, I don't think any handgun manufacturer is enjoying a 100% mark up. The profit has to be shared with a distributor and retailer in most cases. In theory a retailer can expect a mark-up of between 25 to 35 percent, but in practice discounting will eat up a lot of that. The same can be said about distributors. Most gunmakers won't make 30% over their costs, which is the reason so many are turning to cheaper ways of making things.

 

[Parker Dean]

Why don't we get regular postings from the manufacturers on this very site and other gun sites? The people in the marketing and public relations firms of the gun makers are missing a platinum opportunity.

Sometimes they get run off by trolls

I watched it happen on the 1911 forum. Last year the owner of the company created a thread introducing the Commander and CCO size 1911's. The thread went downhill immediately and now the company "speaks" through one of the mods.

Although some other companies do still participate:

Rock River Arms Pres, owner, whatever, Bob posts in the RRA section relatively frequently. Haven't noticed any trolls in there. Yet.

The Colt section at 1911Forum had one employee posting with certain news tidbits and obsevations. His job changed and he doesn't post very often anymore. Maybe it was just the job change, maybe not. He hasn't said.

In the Armalite section of arf.com Armalite staff post occasionally.

 

[Dionysusigma]

Personally, I've never been all that impressed by Colt anyway. If I see a Colt product, whether on the web or at a store/show/whatever, I just keep looking for something else that's pretty dang close (if not the exact freakin' same thing) for half the price.

George Hill: Colt, FN, Browning, Beretta...

Nightcrawler: Hey Ogre, don't forget HK!

George Hill: ... some of the worst gun snobs out there.

I guess that's why we've got Century

 

[tc300mag1]

Wonder if Mike will start pushing those now snazzy Ruger Blackhawks

 

[mec]

those engraver shop rugers are very nice alright. Nice and expensive too. I understand that the ruger people were pretty divided over whether to open the engraving shop or not and that a number of them are still pissed off about it.

If the engraviing shop crashes and burns, the ruger collectors will have a field day.

I bet however that somebody in the Colt company is now doing deep salaams in front of a statue of Venturino so that he will not be unhappy with them. His influence will be significant among Single Action fans- at least until Shooting Times goes away. They recently reported about 150,000 paid monthly circulation and its uncertain how far the figures can drop before they pack it in.