Jonzer77
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In other words, you don't have factual data. You are just making stuff up at this point. Got it.
Why not "pass it on" now? What do you think?
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In other words, you don't have factual data. You are just making stuff up at this point. Got it.
FireInCairo
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Pass it on!
I spend every working day with today's youth, and share the experience of shooting with many. I have found that when you give a young person something, they tend to value it as such. Free = worthless to the Entitlement Generation. They cherish nothing, maintain nothing, and honor nothing.
Of course, there are exceptions.
Of course, there are exceptions.
Zaydok Allen
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So, now you've completely switched over to simply yelling "Pass it on!" at people rather than engaging in the discussion that you started?
If that's the case, then this thread no longer serves a purpose.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
Yeah, we should focus this idea on the exceptions. They are out there.
chicharrones
needs more ammo
I think I know the general feeling Fire in Cairo meant when speaking of veterans tied to particular generations.
US military size in proportion to the population of the US has been shrinking year by year. Not necessarily because the military has dramatically gotten smaller (discounting WWII), but the population keeps growing and growing. So, children of veterans are being more and more outpaced in numbers by children of non-veterans.
These are not updated but show some useful info.
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0004598.html
https://www.google.com/fusiontables/DataSource?dsrcid=225439#rows:id=1
http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/05/us/war-veterans-by-the-numbers/
Red Wind
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I have several dozen firearms, 5 children and 20 grandchildren. I've got a codicil in my will.
Every gun goes to all of them. They can fight over who gets what!
3 of my children and at least 9 of my grandchildren, (including 3 girls), are quite interested in the shooting sports and hunting. I believe that takes care of me ,"Passing it on."
Every gun goes to all of them. They can fight over who gets what!
3 of my children and at least 9 of my grandchildren, (including 3 girls), are quite interested in the shooting sports and hunting. I believe that takes care of me ,"Passing it on."
FireInCairo
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This movement is not something to be debated, it's to be shared, spread far and wide for those who are interested.
Those who refuse to acknowledge the value can say whatever they like. They've already made up their mind summarily.
What purpose is served in arguing with them/you? We know how this goes on forums. We've seen this all before.
This thread is for those who understand the purpose behind it.
PASS IT ON!
FireInCairo
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These are good points. Thanks for chiming in, Chich.
I don't know where the poster got his stat on the average gun owner being 55. However, statistics on gun ownership come from surveys. Those surveys show a higher percentage of people from older generations own guns than those from younger generations. I doubt it would surprise anyone that those same surveys show:
- Greater numbers of men own guns than women
- Greater numbers of rural residents own guns than urban residents
- Greater number of conservatives own guns that liberals
- Greater numbers of whites own guns than minorities.
another pake
Member
I for one would still like to know the source/s for your "facts".
Where can we verify them? After all, "the movement" would be well served if we knew. I still say that no one knows the distribution of firearms by age because it can't be known. Any supposed data comes from answers that respondents provide to surveyors, and at least in my home no one has ever called or asked, "how many guns by age group."
Once again, the premise of exposing others and possibly gifting firearms to others has merit. HERE's an idea. After you pay off you student loans, start using all that money to buy guns for the neighbors.
This thread has taken a silly turn.
PASS IT ON
Where can we verify them? After all, "the movement" would be well served if we knew. I still say that no one knows the distribution of firearms by age because it can't be known. Any supposed data comes from answers that respondents provide to surveyors, and at least in my home no one has ever called or asked, "how many guns by age group."
Once again, the premise of exposing others and possibly gifting firearms to others has merit. HERE's an idea. After you pay off you student loans, start using all that money to buy guns for the neighbors.
This thread has taken a silly turn.
PASS IT ON
Red Wind
Member
FireInCairo seems like he's all tuckered out! These free give-away campaigns are draining! 
These free give-away campaigns are draining! 45_auto
Member
another pake said:
No, this thread never took a turn at all, it just STARTED OFF silly.
The same statistics that show that older people own more guns also show that higher income people own more guns.
I would bet that the lower income percentage of the population (those that can't afford guns) would be MUCH happier if the older, richer gun owners just gave them cash instead of guns. You'd probably have more influence on the 2nd amendment through them by just buying their vote.
$700 or so will easily get you a decent gun of any type you prefer (handgun, rifle, or shotgun) and enough ammo to shoot for a year. Very few people who are too poor or disinterested to come up with $700 are going to be influenced by a free gun.
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buck460XVR
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FireInCairo
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You want some statistics? Ok, I will reiterate what some brilliant observer noted earlier in this thread:
If every single gun owner in this nation decided to willingly gift a non-gun owner a firearm, we would double the number of gun owners in this nation!
DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF GUN OWNERS IN ONE FELL SWOOP!
You want to triple the number? Give away two firearms to non gun owners!
PASS IT ON!
If every single gun owner in this nation decided to willingly gift a non-gun owner a firearm, we would double the number of gun owners in this nation!
DOUBLE THE NUMBER OF GUN OWNERS IN ONE FELL SWOOP!
You want to triple the number? Give away two firearms to non gun owners!
PASS IT ON!
another pake
Member
The point was, is and always shall be, You nor I nor anyone else knows how many gun owners there really are. All that we have are many incorrect guesses.
Just the way it was intended.
Just the way it was intended.
buck460XVR
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If you were to triple the number of gun owners in the U.S. you would be over 100% of those legally able to own a gun. This would also mean you would be giving about 40% of those guns to anti gun folks. What good would that do other than get good guns destroyed? Your idea that just giving someone a gun will automatically make them a gun enthusiast is not valid. The idea that those without a firearm only are so because they cannot afford a gun is just as bogus. We baby-boomers have guns because we learned to love the sport by hunting and shooting with positive role models, not just because someone gave us a gun. Our fathers/grandfathers back then had less expendable income then to spend on a gun for a child/grandchild than now but still were able to afford it somehow. What's that old saying...."you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make them drink''?
Blade First
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"If every single gun owner in this nation decided to willingly gift a non-gun owner a firearm, we would double the number of gun owners in this nation!"
And you defeat your own argument in one sentence. You seem determined to ignore the real issue here...that without a receptive and willing-to-learn giftee, a huge portion of those gifted firearms are going to collect dust in another location.
I do appreciate your passion; not your ignorance of facts or naivete re: what a collection represents. Firearms aren't just mechanical devices to be stuffed in closets...some are heirlooms, some necessary tools, some are ideological statements, some are hugely entertaining, some are eye-candy...some are incredible works of art.
I suspect your own collection is on the thin side. Don't expect anything from me. Mine will go to family, friends and other deserving folk who 'get it'. You don't.
And you defeat your own argument in one sentence. You seem determined to ignore the real issue here...that without a receptive and willing-to-learn giftee, a huge portion of those gifted firearms are going to collect dust in another location.
I do appreciate your passion; not your ignorance of facts or naivete re: what a collection represents. Firearms aren't just mechanical devices to be stuffed in closets...some are heirlooms, some necessary tools, some are ideological statements, some are hugely entertaining, some are eye-candy...some are incredible works of art.
I suspect your own collection is on the thin side. Don't expect anything from me. Mine will go to family, friends and other deserving folk who 'get it'. You don't.
Ed Ames
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If I can break character for a moment.
In 1990-ish my family and I would have fallen squarely into the "urban poor" demographic. We couldn't afford an apartment in the city we were living in. We couldn't afford a sublet room. The place we called "home" was not legally habitable. No heat, no ac, no toilet or shower. We were poor.
But we saved up $169 (about $300 in today's money) plus tax etc. and bought a new 9mm pistol, a FEG. I was reminded of it recently because I saw one in a used gun counter, listed at $299.
We were odd urban poor because we did care about things like 2A rights. Not unique, but odd. We took that FEG shooting as often as we could afford, which wasn't often.
Nobody gave it to us. Nobody gave us the money we spent on it. It was very expensive to us but it was something we valued.
But there is something more. I don't know that we would have accepted a gun as a gift. A combination of pride (we actively hid our financial straits to avoid becoming charity cases) and paranoia (someone who gives you a gun knows you are a gun owner, and may not consider that confidential information, but being known as a gun owner can attract attention) would have made us very hesitant at least.
Nowadays I get a bit annoyed with myself if I buy a $300 gun because there is no economic barrier to buying something nicer and I don't need the clutter (but a P11 I paid $250ish for, in an Alien Gear holster, is one of my three main concealed carry guns), but I remember that part of my life all too well, and that's the context I am coming from when I say I don't think passing guns to people who don't buy their own would be an effective form of 2A advocacy.
In 1990-ish my family and I would have fallen squarely into the "urban poor" demographic. We couldn't afford an apartment in the city we were living in. We couldn't afford a sublet room. The place we called "home" was not legally habitable. No heat, no ac, no toilet or shower. We were poor.
But we saved up $169 (about $300 in today's money) plus tax etc. and bought a new 9mm pistol, a FEG. I was reminded of it recently because I saw one in a used gun counter, listed at $299.
We were odd urban poor because we did care about things like 2A rights. Not unique, but odd. We took that FEG shooting as often as we could afford, which wasn't often.
Nobody gave it to us. Nobody gave us the money we spent on it. It was very expensive to us but it was something we valued.
But there is something more. I don't know that we would have accepted a gun as a gift. A combination of pride (we actively hid our financial straits to avoid becoming charity cases) and paranoia (someone who gives you a gun knows you are a gun owner, and may not consider that confidential information, but being known as a gun owner can attract attention) would have made us very hesitant at least.
Nowadays I get a bit annoyed with myself if I buy a $300 gun because there is no economic barrier to buying something nicer and I don't need the clutter (but a P11 I paid $250ish for, in an Alien Gear holster, is one of my three main concealed carry guns), but I remember that part of my life all too well, and that's the context I am coming from when I say I don't think passing guns to people who don't buy their own would be an effective form of 2A advocacy.
FireInCairo
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This is the most important fact in this thread.
silicosys4
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my take:
Guns are not just another object to be passed along willy nilly.
I have gifted more than a few guns. My BIL got a brand new PSA AR as a gift, after we built it together. He got a Glock 21 from me as well.
My sister got a P64 for personal protection while her BF is away.
My mother got a S&W 442 because she wanted her own gun, without relying on my fathers for protection.
My father got...lets just say he's gotten his fair share from me as well
The difference between my gifting and the OP's gifting?
I know each and every one of the people my firearms were gifted to, and I know that the gift will be appreciated, and not just end up in some pawn shop a few months/years down the road.
Ownership of a firearms is a responsibility, and bestowing it upon someone is not something I do lightly.
Picking random people who are without and gifting them a firearm does nothing to pass along an appreciation of said firearm and the responsibilities involved.
I am happy to help a person learn, but as it has been said here already, there is no real significant monetary burden to anybody acquiring a firearm these days. People who are "ready" are perfectly able to acquire them for themselves.
People that aren't, or that I suspect aren't able to understand that responsibility but are still interested, I'll take shooting and if they want to acquire their own I direct them to reasonably priced sources, with the understanding that if you want something, you put in your own effort to get it.
Since I'm in Washington state, there is no such thing as "giving" anybody a firearm anymore. It's going to cost somebody $40 regardless.
Guns are not just another object to be passed along willy nilly.
I have gifted more than a few guns. My BIL got a brand new PSA AR as a gift, after we built it together. He got a Glock 21 from me as well.
My sister got a P64 for personal protection while her BF is away.
My mother got a S&W 442 because she wanted her own gun, without relying on my fathers for protection.
My father got...lets just say he's gotten his fair share from me as well
The difference between my gifting and the OP's gifting?
I know each and every one of the people my firearms were gifted to, and I know that the gift will be appreciated, and not just end up in some pawn shop a few months/years down the road.
Ownership of a firearms is a responsibility, and bestowing it upon someone is not something I do lightly.
Picking random people who are without and gifting them a firearm does nothing to pass along an appreciation of said firearm and the responsibilities involved.
I am happy to help a person learn, but as it has been said here already, there is no real significant monetary burden to anybody acquiring a firearm these days. People who are "ready" are perfectly able to acquire them for themselves.
People that aren't, or that I suspect aren't able to understand that responsibility but are still interested, I'll take shooting and if they want to acquire their own I direct them to reasonably priced sources, with the understanding that if you want something, you put in your own effort to get it.
Since I'm in Washington state, there is no such thing as "giving" anybody a firearm anymore. It's going to cost somebody $40 regardless.
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Zaydok Allen
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That's simply another opinion stated as a fact, which doesn't make it true.
It would only be the most important fact in this thread if the premiss that giving guns to people would generate 2A advocacy, awareness, and activism. That premiss is flawed for many reasons already stated, and many folks do not accept that premiss. That doesn't mean we naysayers are right either. But I say again, you asked what we think. Don't be upset that people don't agree with you.
It is just as flawed as promoting the gifting of holy books as a way to increase awareness and advocacy for freedom of religion in the first amendment.
If your idea works, I congratulate you, and I'll happily eat crow. I wish you luck but if you actually convince people to start giving their guns away, then you should definitely look at a career in politics, because I suspect you could sell binoculars to a blind man.
splattergun
Member
I owned only a .22 revolver from age 16 to 36. I simply could not afford to buy or feed any more firearms. I had bills to pay and mouths to feed and ain't nothing in this life's free. Not even a gun.
Then I began to get ahead.
Now I have "more guns than I can shoot at one time".
I have kids, grandkids and friends that will end up with my firearms, if they are wanted. If they aren't wanted, then they will be sold and the money goes to college for the grands.
That's passing it on, ain't it?
My father gave his WWII Navy 1911 service sidearm to my eldest brother for his 21st birthday. 9 months later my brother sold that pistol to pay for his wedding. Is that the kind of passing it on you mean?
Then I began to get ahead.
Now I have "more guns than I can shoot at one time".
I have kids, grandkids and friends that will end up with my firearms, if they are wanted. If they aren't wanted, then they will be sold and the money goes to college for the grands.
That's passing it on, ain't it?
My father gave his WWII Navy 1911 service sidearm to my eldest brother for his 21st birthday. 9 months later my brother sold that pistol to pay for his wedding. Is that the kind of passing it on you mean?
buckhorn_cortez
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I think the entire idea is simplistic and based on false premisses.
Owning a piano doesn't make you a musician - it makes you a piano owner.
Same thing with being given a gun. It doesn't and won't automatically make you into a shooter and gun advocate - something YOU'VE CHOSEN TO IGNORE
Probably because it is not supportive of your self-defined "good idea."
You have to want to shoot or hunt to own a gun. How does giving someone a gun create that interest? It doesn't anymore than giving someone golf clubs would make them an avid golfer.
Guns are owned by people for different reasons - and that's the point, you need a reason to own a gun - not just have one given to you. If you want something bad enough, you pursue it yourself.
My parents, uncles, and grandfather did not own guns. I was always interested in guns so I pursued ownership of one myself. When I was 11 years old I asked my father when I could own a gun. For whatever reason, he said "When you're 14."
I worked summers mowing lawns and doing yard work, and winters shoveling driveways. On my 14th birthday, my father took me to a gun shop and I bought my own gun; a 16 gage, Hi-Standard pump shotgun, with the money I earned.
Giving someone something will not automatically engender an appreciation for the gift or the Constitution.
But, as with most true believers, once they become fixated on something they'll refuse to listen to anyone else - and that's the point your at.
I'll make the observation one more time - if you can't afford to buy a gun, you probably can't afford the ammunition either.
Owning a piano doesn't make you a musician - it makes you a piano owner.
Same thing with being given a gun. It doesn't and won't automatically make you into a shooter and gun advocate - something YOU'VE CHOSEN TO IGNORE
Probably because it is not supportive of your self-defined "good idea."
You have to want to shoot or hunt to own a gun. How does giving someone a gun create that interest? It doesn't anymore than giving someone golf clubs would make them an avid golfer.
Guns are owned by people for different reasons - and that's the point, you need a reason to own a gun - not just have one given to you. If you want something bad enough, you pursue it yourself.
My parents, uncles, and grandfather did not own guns. I was always interested in guns so I pursued ownership of one myself. When I was 11 years old I asked my father when I could own a gun. For whatever reason, he said "When you're 14."
I worked summers mowing lawns and doing yard work, and winters shoveling driveways. On my 14th birthday, my father took me to a gun shop and I bought my own gun; a 16 gage, Hi-Standard pump shotgun, with the money I earned.
Giving someone something will not automatically engender an appreciation for the gift or the Constitution.
But, as with most true believers, once they become fixated on something they'll refuse to listen to anyone else - and that's the point your at.
I'll make the observation one more time - if you can't afford to buy a gun, you probably can't afford the ammunition either.
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Jonzer77
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Surveys are complete BS. I can't think of many people that would give honest answers to a random person over the phone regarding firearm ownership.
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