Why confiscation won't work

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Oh I'm with you Bob, I've got a little grey in the beard myself and have had a good life and owe very little except my gratitude for having lived in this great country my whole life.
I just look at some folks and wonder if there are enough left who would really walk away from it all.
 
Confiscation will only be a final step...after everyone willingly surrenders their firearms and ammunition due to one of the countless ways they will make it easier for you to do so than not to do so, or succumb to some law or regulation and lose their right to own firearms at all. Those who really want to disarm us have been and will continue to play the long game...camel's nose under the tent...death of a thousand cuts...incrementalism, until such time as the final blow is just the last manageable step rather than a trigger for war. Those of us who have been around for more than 50 years or so can really see how much we have given away over the years so far...and it's only going to continue to get worse until we quit trying to compromise and start rolling back most of the laws and regulations in all areas of our lives that we have allowed.
 
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Cofiscation

There we were,me and her, 2 dogs, finally moved into our new apt in Manhattan,
NYC from small area Vermont.
Third night, we had furniture just about everything cable was just attached, I plopped on couch, new rule no dogs on bed,tv was blaring as I listened to it, told
her to quiet up,It was about 1972, 20 minutes after 12 am, announce stated this is the first time in history as far as we can tell such a thing as this has never before happened. Almost every police officer was stationed with a crew of a few men, knocking on doors, breaking it down if the occupent refused to open to confiscate all registered weapons. This went on without warning,without giving receipts for money as stated in the law. Their was a tv camera at one private very wealthy owner, door was broken in,his firearms were all collector items, worth a fortune, cameras were allowed in by owner as his home was ransacked by the police, no one appeared to be in charge, when owner asked by what right are you doing this he was shoved aside live on tv. . I couldn't believe it. When it was over the tv station announced this was no show but was happening live as you watched.
No one got their guns back or any money for what was stolen.
Now you out there, tell me again how it would never happen.
She looked at me with a EVIL grin, hmm, whats in the closet over there.
 
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Anyone remember Ruby Ridge or Waco? Both of those started over weapons violations. Lots of people died. It didn't end well for anyone. The gov't isn't going to be that foolish again. The latest incident in NV http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2014/nov/12/cliven-bundy-ranch-has-been-fed-free-since-armed-s/ had a bunch of feds trying to confiscate some cows, not guns, and they pulled out.

They won't come to your house for your guns. You might however lose it if you get arrested.

http://www.rawstory.com/2015/12/rig...up-judge-and-sell-illegally-altered-gun-feds/
 
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There will never be a nationwide confiscation at your home by troops or police. The consequences on both sides would be too high and the government knows that.

However - they don't have to do that. The BATF and the IRS are divisions of the Department of the Treasury. All the Federal Government has to do is pass some kind of law that is administered by the Department of the Treasury.

Before you know it, your bank account is frozen, there's a lien on your property, etc. - just like the IRS does now when you don't pay taxes.

If they simply make it impossible for you to live normally - live in your house, buy groceries, buy fuel, etc. - they've won because very few people can live without being able to purchase the basic necessities.

After the Obamacare "penalty" was transformed into a "tax" by the Supreme Court - anything is possible.
 
We will probably never, ever see a complete "In your face" confiscation attempt like the ones I see described from time to time. Instead, they will slowly and incrementally expand the categories of people prohibited from owning guns. (Terror watchlist ban, then it will be those convicted of any type of violent misdemeanor, then drunk drivers...because if they are willing to get behind the wheel drunk, what's to stop them from doing it with a gun type arguments.... then anyone convicted of harassment or trespassing (Just imagine how scary those things would become with guns!), and then probably those who were prescribed certain medications.....you can see where I'm going with this...
 
Creative bookkeeping 101 is the most likely way to enforce a unpopular law. Re the Affordable Health Care "tax". It seems the people they were supposed to help are the most negatively affected I am hearing from people around here. The old saw death by 1000 cuts does apply. BUT some of the 20 something crowd is asking questions and obtaining firearms as of late. There is hope after all I believe.:D Look at what Canada ended up with for their long gun registration law. Massive non compliance and a money drain for taxpayers.
 
SlicLee - don't forget that video from the days of Hurricane Katrina where NOPD cops were doing door-to-door confiscations. In this particular instance, a frail, elderly woman (90 lbs. soaking wet) was body slammed into the wall of her house by a cop that weighed well over 200 when she showed them her revolver. It wasn't even loaded and she was holding it through the frame.
 
Neo-Luddite said:
NY Times ran a piece today about the run up on gun sales that follows heavy press coverage of anti proposals. If you want a hoot, read some of the comments.
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/...o-spot-region&region=top-news&WT.nav=top-news
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The following response and a response to that response from that article is really thought provoking:

mh12987 New Jersey 13 hours ago

"This story is a red herring. It suggests that the marginal rate of new gun sales (the rate at which gun sales increase or decline over time) is somehow the critical issue. In country that now has over 300 million guns in private hands, who cares when new gun purchases spike? At the risk of sounding cynical, we've already lost the gun control issue. There's no repairing this now. Anyone who wants a gun owns one. Or six. Or fifteen. We are so powerless to fix this, so far past the "tipping point" on this issue, that the NRA's point -- that you're better off armed than not armed -- is starting to sound valid to more and more people. That's what accelerates gun sales -- not the fear of confiscation (and not President Obama), but the belief that if everyone else is armed, I need to be too. I don't think there's a solution other than acceptance and planning your life (and our public policies) with the understanding that ubiquitous gun ownership is a given in this country for the foreseeable future."

J.R. Christensen Sag Harbor, N.Y. 10 hours ago

"Sir! So far, your comment is definitely the best one that I have read on this blog! It is unequivocally true, and I can't believe it isn't a Times Pick? If they had any honesty, it would be.

The gun control war is indeed over, or at least it is for the next 50 years. Americans will never give up their guns anytime in the near future, and anti-gun types will never stop whining and calling for more gun control. It is what it is. Deal with it!"
 
Why did confiscation work in Australia? Why did every Tom, Dick, and Harry march into their local law enforcement office Downunder when asked to by their government and turn in their guns without compensation of any sort (if I under stand it correctly)? If anyone know why the Aussies are so docile please share. I think it for the simple fact that Americans are different, and while I have many friends the founding of Australia was very different that the United States, I hope we are a different breed for the most part.

I agree that house to house will not work here, but ye old government here could make it pretty painful to own guns and ammunition. Besides most of law enforcement don't see it the anti-gunner way. I have asked our local ATF agents and local Sheriff, and municipal police what they would do if the order came down and without any hesitation they said they'd take their badges off and go home. As has already been mentioned in this thread, storm trooper tactics will tip their hand should they try it in small towns first.

I don't think that confiscation will ever be tried, we might see what the Canadians have, which is so restrictive as to basically shut down shooting sports altogether. I had some Canadians in my shop about a year ago and they were ecstatic about being able to run out to the our local range and go shooting without several Mommy permission slips detailing the guns they had and what route they were taking to the range.

On the practical side there's the revenue collected by the government on guns and ammunition, not mention that many manufacturers supply same said government. Without being able sell to the public many in the gun industry would go under without public sales and that creates a whole different animal. Remember Uncle Sam needs gun owners as a quasi standing army, meaning that this country even with it's current lack of leadership is not a push over!
 
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You will never see the grand proposal to outlaw, ban or confiscate firearms, and to watch for that kind of think is to take your eyes off the real threat. It's called "incrementalism", and its the best political method to achieve any goal by one "common sense" minor infringement at a time, right under the noses of an uninterested public. It is how we lost so much of our 2A rights, and its also how we have reclaimed many. If you sit on the sidelines waiting to fight the big battle, by the time that battle comes, we have already lost, and its just the final scene. Engage in the small battles, as they cumulatively determine what direction we go.
 
Why did confiscation work in Australia? Why did every Tom, Dick, and Harry march into their local law enforcement office Downunder when asked to by their government and turn in their guns without compensation of any sort (if I under stand it correctly)?
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In point of fact, they didn't. Despite all the photographs depicting dumptruck loads of weapons being destroyed, there was massive non-compliance, as high as 80% by some estimations.

They love to tout that "we've not had a mass shooting like that since!", but the truth is that they hadn't had a mass shooting like Port Arthur prior, either. Anyone who knows a thing about scientific methodology is well aware that you don't attribute a singular anomaly not reoccurring to anything.
 
TimSr said:
You will never see the grand proposal to outlaw, ban or confiscate firearms, and to watch for that kind of think is to take your eyes off the real threat. It's called "incrementalism", and its the best political method to achieve any goal by one "common sense" minor infringement at a time, right under the noses of an uninterested public. It is how we lost so much of our 2A rights, and its also how we have reclaimed many. If you sit on the sidelines waiting to fight the big battle, by the time that battle comes, we have already lost, and its just the final scene. Engage in the small battles, as they cumulatively determine what direction we go.
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While I agree 100% that incrementalism is and will continue to be their preferred strategy, never say never about those grand proposals, neighbor.

Ban guns. All guns. Get rid of guns in homes, and on the streets, and, as much as possible, on police. Not just because of San Bernardino, or whichever mass shooting may pop up next, but also not not because of those. Don’t sort the population into those who might do something evil or foolish or self-destructive with a gun and those who surely will not. As if this could be known—as if it could be assessed without massively violating civil liberties and stigmatizing the mentally ill. Ban guns! Not just gun violence. Not just certain guns. Not just already-technically-illegal guns. All of them.
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https://newrepublic.com/article/125498/its-time-ban-guns-yes-them
 
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I also hear those who say that the authorities will have no taste for the task. Again those same people have years invested in their jobs and have based their future well being and survival on the pension they will receive. State, local, federal, military they all have a great deal riding on how they follow their superiors orders.
Don't get me wrong, I never want to see the day when we are at the point in this country that we were in the 1850-60's but I think we are certainly on that path. I feel that I want no more compromises on the 2a and that the death from a thousand cuts is the plan at this time along with extreme proposals that make lesser ones seem reasonable.
Secret lists and the ramifications to individual freedoms aren't even considered in the debate.
 
X-Rap said:
I also hear those who say that the authorities will have no taste for the task. Again those same people have years invested in their jobs and have based their future well being and survival on the pension they will receive. State, local, federal, military they all have a great deal riding on how they follow their superiors orders.
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Following orders.... Many thoughts entered my mind, but disagreement eventually won the day. There would be charges of racism and subjective enforcement and they would likely be legitimate claims. It would also be very hazardous duty. Would you want to be a LEO following a confiscation directive from people's homes (your neighbor's homes)? Confiscation simply will not happen.

Would you give up your guns regardless of whether a 4473 was completed with purchase?
 
I don't know, would you walk away from a 25 year career and face whatever penalties the gov had installed to thwart dissent.
We have already had the president proclaim gun control is a matter of national security on national TV so that jump has been made.
 
X-Rap said:
I don't know, would you walk away from a 25 year career and face whatever penalties the gov had installed to thwart dissent.
We have already had the president proclaim gun control is a matter of national security on national TV so that jump has been made.
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I DID walk away from a career in law enforcement when the president of the union made a deal with the president of the city council to support a semi-auto ban in exchange for replacing the departments old Model 10s with semi-autos. Granted, it was a career in its infancy, but had my Dad not been already retired, he would have walked away too.

If one has confidence in their ability to always find a way to make a living, it's not hard to walk away from situations that are at odds with your core principles, integrity and honor, IMO.
 
What do you mean confiscations won't work, it's never been tried before in the US and in England, Australia, and other European countries it worked very well.
 
"What do you mean confiscations won't work, it's never been tried before in the US and in England, Australia, and other European countries it worked very well."


The growth of this country was based on ARMED citizens.....not so much elsewhere.......and the founders of this country KNEW what they were doing.....with the 2nd amendment
 
CHIPCOM - FROM THE NEW REPUBLIC - " Ban guns. All guns. Get rid of guns in homes, and on the streets, and, as much as possible, on police. Not just because of San Bernardino, or whichever mass shooting may pop up next, but also not not because of those. Don’t sort the population into those who might do something evil or foolish or self-destructive with a gun and those who surely will not. As if this could be known—as if it could be assessed without massively violating civil liberties and stigmatizing the mentally ill. Ban guns! Not just gun violence. Not just certain guns. Not just already-technically-illegal guns. All of them. "
Click to expand...

The New Republic has been and is an extreme left wing Marxist oriented magazine. Began as one and continues to this day.

As far as gun confiscation goes, were it to be made a law, while the SWAT teams, regular Federal, State, and local law enforcement cops, and military confiscation teams stormed out to confiscate guns and kill anyone who "made a furtive move toward his waist band," the fat politicians who passed the law and the parasitic bureaucrats who enabled the law's enforcement, would all be sitting back laughing, drinking, partying, enjoying life as smug, self righteous tyrants always do.

No skin off their noses. Just keeping the worker peasants in line don't you know.

L.W.
 
Leanwolf said:
The New Republic has been and is an extreme left wing Marxist oriented magazine. Began as one and continues to this day.

As far as gun confiscation goes, were it to be made a law, while the SWAT teams, regular Federal, State, and local law enforcement cops, and military confiscation teams stormed out to confiscate guns and kill anyone who "made a furtive move toward his waist band," the fat politicians who passed the law and the parasitic bureaucrats who enabled the law's enforcement, would all be sitting back laughing, drinking, partying, enjoying life as smug, self righteous tyrants always do.

No skin off their noses. Just keeping the worker peasants in line don't you know.

L.W.
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They don't have enough troops to hit everyone at once...and forum rules prevent me from speculating on how those fat pols and bureaucrats might have those smiles wiped off their smug little faces while their goons are out doing their dirty work. ;)
 
chipcom said:
Did it?
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Of course, why if it wasn't for the brilliance of taking guns away from people who've never used them for anything nefarious the geniuses in the liberal media wouldn't be coming out now saying that all guns should be confiscated.

I mean, all those journalists and contributors in the media went to universities and are "highly educated" thus they KNOW more than WE do.

EDIT: Obviously, I'm being facetious.
 
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