why detachable mags. in tactical bolt guns?

[LRShooting]

As far as hunting goes, even with thick brush, I still like detach mags. I'm in a pretty heavily deer populated area and quick reloads are a must with unlimited antlerless deer tags.

Another benefit is rather than having to drop the floor plate or cycle rounds every time you get out of the vehicle or stop for the day, you just pop the mag out and put it back when you need it.

Although I cant see why you would need it if you're just the ocassional trophy hunter or paper punch occasionally. I guess maybe you might want it to save time

 

[Edarnold]

What is the benefit to running detachable magazine bottom metal in a .308 bolt gun that is used for punching paper at distance?



vs. standard bottom metal?



I'm thinking Badger M4 vs. M5 here.



I hate losing mags... and wonder about the benefit of five (or 10) in a detachable mag. vs. 4 in an internal magazine.



Is it more a gun game thing??

Returning to the OPs question, it's a gun game thing. If you are punching paper off the bench, the protruding mag is in the way. If you are shooting prone or offhand, the mag is in the way. If you are carrying the rifle in the woods, the protruding mag is VERY in the way. The larger cutout to accommodate the detachable magazine, compared to a conventional Mauser type, weakens the center of the stock, which will harm accuracy.

On the other hand, if you love showing off doing mag-dumps, 10 or 20 rounds at a time will let you burn out your barrel much faster. As far as being 'tacticool', last I looked the most tactical bolt-gun out there, the M40, does not have a big box sticking out the bottom.

Your opinion may vary.

 

[ROAshooter]

thank you Edarnold.....sums it up nicely

 

[TIMC]

last I looked the most tactical bolt-gun out there, the M40, does not have a big box sticking out the bottom.

That doesn't mean it is the best or even the right way to outfit a rifle.

I do however agree for a bench rifle there is no need for a high capacity box mag. I do like the 10 round detachable mag on my .308 bolt rifle that I use for pig hunting; that setup makes for fast follow up shots without reloading.

 

[R.W.Dale]

If you are just punching holes and SERIOUS about it you don't have a magazine at all. Internal or otherwise.

You also don't have an ejector to fling your precious cases far and wide

Otherwise a internal box does the same thing as a detachable it's just all convience after that.


Oh and an internal mag floor plate has just as big a hole in it as a detachable mag.

For example On a ruger m77 you can actually replace the floorplate and internal mag with a M14 magazine (fixed) with no modifications to the rifle.

As to the M40 it's been obsolete for about 30 years now and is a fine example of NOT ponying up the cash to give our servicemen the best equipment possible.

 

[Ed Ames]

Oh and an internal mag floor plate has just as big a hole in it as a detachable mag.

Not all internal magazines have floor plates. E.g. the Savage Hog Hunter; Rounds must go in and out from the top.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Not all internal magazines have floor plates. E.g. the Savage Hog Hunter; Rounds must go in and out from the top.

Ok if you like really cheap rifles with a cheap center feed mag glued into the bottom of a cheap as humanly possible plastic stock.

I don't consider this approach a plus compared to ANYTHING

 

[Ed Ames]

Ok if you like really cheap rifles with a cheap center feed mag glued into the bottom of a cheap as humanly possible plastic stock.

I don't consider this approach a plus compared to ANYTHING

Dakota Arms sells their Model 97 (starting price $2k IIRC) with blind magazines.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheapness. Some people don't want a floor plate that can pop open.

 

[R.W.Dale]

Dakota Arms sells their Model 97 (starting price $2k IIRC) with blind magazines.

And my savage 99 has a rotating magazine with a cartridge counter. Your point is?

I don't think anyone said that there are only stocks with a mag cutout. But above it was mentioned that a hinged floorplate cutout is somehow stronger than the same sized cutout for a DBM

 

[WNTFW]

Wydem: "Loading from a detachable magazine lets you mount your scope lower to the receiver and more inline with the barrel."
Never thought about that. Where I live and what I do shooting with gloves (for the cold) doesn't come into play either. So I didn't get tactical bolt knobs either.

Skylerbone: "If it's truly for tactical use, magazines are a great way to quickly change loads to suit your target. "
I have heard that before. Police Sniper application.

If you hunted where you had to unload often to cross fences it would be a convenience and safety consideration. Same goes for any unload / reload needs like vehicle transport.

Only real downside to me is cost of mags and DBM. If it wasn't for that I'd have them on my bolt gun and give a couple out for Christmas gifts.

When I shoot F-Class I have to single load. I just have the stock bottom metal as it saves about $400.00 and it is adequate.

A lot of guys have mag fed rifles and have to single load also. Those same guys shoot other matches where they use the mags. Their money, decision and so on. They are a bunch of cool guys that are great to be on the range with.

 

[Sovblocgunfan]

Re: post 13. Mad minute yes, changing mags for fresh reloading no.

Enfield SMLE magazines were only removed for cleaning purposes or an emergency unload. They were not changed out in the manner we think of today. The magazines were fed by stripper clips.

See pages 17 and 18 here:

http://www.weapons.org.uk/smallarmstraining/downloads/uk/01-03-42.pdf

 

[lobowolf761]

Who said anything about need? If all you do is ride your Harley around the block, you only need a peanut tank. But there is nothing wrong with installing a 5 gallon tank if that's what you want

Better to have it and not need it than need it and not have it.

 

[lobowolf761]

Re: post 13. Mad minute yes, changing mags for fresh reloading no.

Enfield SMLE magazines were only removed for cleaning purposes or an emergency unload. They were not changed out in the manner we think of today. The magazines were fed by stripper clips.

See pages 17 and 18 here:

http://www.weapons.org.uk/smallarmstraining/downloads/uk/01-03-42.pdf

It's the same with the Swiss rifles. Detachable mags but loaded from top with stripper clips. Granted only 6 rounds at a time.

 

[agtman]

Not all internal magazines have floor plates. E.g. the Savage Hog Hunter; Rounds must go in and out from the top.

Which is one of several reasons I won't be getting Savage's "Hog Hunter" to hunt hogs with.

Aside from being slow & awkward to load (or reload) with an optic mounted, it's overly weighty and comes housed in a cheapo plastic stock that looks at your wallet and says: "Please spend more $$$ on me and upgrade this stock."

 

[JDGray]

Why detachable mags? To allow for faster reloads in a shootout, or added capacity. Most target shooters, hunters, don't need the capacity, but if they want it, they can have it with a detachable mag. Personally, my centerfeed Savage feeding was below par, the McRee chassis that replaced it, feeds like a champ from the detachable magazines. To each his own in America!!

 

[Lord Teapot]

the benefit is more rounds per reload, and faster reloads. IE; more time shooting, less time loading.

 

[Ash]

No, it's the same amount of time loading - the loading merely takes place elsewhere. A detachable magazine allows you to load them at home and then shoot - the time is merely displaced.

However, unless you have enough magazines for the bolt action rifle to shoot all day long, or more correctly through an entire session, you will be reduced once more to the same level as any rifleman who shoots with a hinged floor-plate or blind magazine.

 

[Jim Watson]

I am not an sniper or a hunter and my center fire paper punching is done one at a time. My target rifles are either single shots or had just as well be, with "sleds" to ease single loading.
Your needs may differ.

 

[jmr40]

Ok if you like really cheap rifles with a cheap center feed mag glued into the bottom of a cheap as humanly possible plastic stock.

Cheap has nothing to do with it. Floorplates add unnecessary weight and complexity to rifles while adding very little convenience. A great many experienced hunters prefer blind magazines. My $1,000 Kimber has one as does my custom stocked Remington 700. A lot of DG hunters weld floorplates shut so they won't dump ammo out unintentionally during a hunt.

 

[chicharrones]

Dakota Arms sells their Model 97 (starting price $2k IIRC) with blind magazines.

I don't think it has anything to do with cheapness. Some people don't want a floor plate that can pop open.

Interesting. I think I've read of dangerous game hunter needing that, but I can't recall why. I'm not a dangerous game hunter so I have no idea other than just one less thing to go wrong I suppose.

 

[jmorris]

A lot of this looks at it from a loading stand point.

How about asking the question of why hinged floor plate vs blind magazine? Answer is its a lot faster to unload with a hinged floor plate.

Then you could progress to is a hand full of loose rounds any better than a magazine full of rounds? Answer would be a lot faster to store and or retrieve and reload with the magazine.

 

[taliv]

There's no such thing as a tactical anything. All rifles are 'tactical'.

yes, there is. no, they're not.

Tactical is a meaningless term. All firearms are tactical. They cannot be strategic.

it is not meaningless. when people say it, i know what they mean, which is something with a primary design purpose to give advantage in a fight. it distinguishes those firearms from ones that are primarily designed for target shooting, hunting, or a dozen other purposes unrelated to combat.

i don't know why this concept is so hard for people to understand, or if they are just being obstinate. it may be overused and often misapplied, but everyone else knows what it means, so insisting it has no meaning won't help your credibility.

examples of firearms that are not tactical

as for the OP, all my bolt guns are 'tactical' and have detachable magazines for 2 reasons. I shoot sniper competitions and often need 20+ rounds in a timed stage, and am often required to unload when moving between obstacles. for instance, if you have to shoot till you hit a couple targets, then run to the top of a tower and shoot some more targets, for safety, the match rules will generally require you to run up the steps with an unloaded rifle, but you will have to unload and reload while on the clock. doing this with a blind magazine or hinged floorplate would not be competitive.

unlike others, i have not found magazines to be in the way either at the bench, prone, when hunting, etc. but i can see how some people who don't need them would be better off without. i wouldn't want one on a dedicated deer rifle.

 

[WNTFW]

Good post Taliv,
What mags/DBM do you use?

My favorite counter I get when mentioning high mag capacity as an advantage.
(Generally from some no shooting know it all regarding handguns)
Them: "Well how many times do you plan on missing?"
Me: "A lot less than you, a lot less than you"
Never has one of them offered to prove themselves at a local range. Go figure.

On a serious note I ask what makes them think it will be a one on one fair fight.

 

[taliv]

my favorite are the surgeon DBM, but since switching to the KMW sentinel stocks a few years ago, that's mainly what i use, and they're also quite nice. Badger are also good, but i prefer the protective shield on the surgeon instead of the flush badger ones. I also like the latch better. here's a pic of the two
there are lots of other options out there, like PTG, etc. i don't have much experience with them.

for mags, i only use AI, either 10 round AICS or 10 round AIAW

 

[Sheepdog1968]

I do some 200 yard bench rest competitions at a local range. Round count plus some sighter shots results in about 25 or so rounds in 30 minutes. While it's not rapid, it keeps me busy. I don't have a detachable mag and I have a one piece rail for the scope. I find that skin gets scraped up a bit trying to reload at a pace that is faster than if I'm just plinking at a range. I suppose I could train a bit more to minimize the finger scrapes. I could see where having a detachable mag that I could pop out after ever 5 (or 10 even better) would be nice to have for the reason motioned above.