Why did Ruger discontinue the Old Army?

[junkman_01]

Jaymo wrote:

I'd like to see them bring back the .32 H&R mag Single Six, but I have one already so it's not important.

That's a very self-centered attitude. I guess I could tell you I feel the same way about the ROA. I already have mine, so if Ruger brings it back for you unwashed masses, it will de-value mine. But I won't tell you that. I want you to eventually get one and see what a top quality C&B revolver built with 20th century technology is like.

 

[Jaymo]

Yeah, it is. What I meant to say was that it's not important TO ME.
Either that, or I'm completely apathetic about anything that doesn't affect me or mine.
Not sure which. I really don't care.
I wasn't concerned about my SS .32 being devalued by Ruger reintroducing it. I bought it to shoot, not to sit in the safe. Unfortunately, all it's done since I bought it is sit in the safe. Pity.
I agree completely with you about getting an ROA. I mean-no, the ROA is a total POS and you should give yours to me for proper disposal.

 

[J-Bar]

A nice night out on the town with your missus (or other), with a good meal and a movie, is going to cost you $100. If the gun that appeals to you is only priced at $100 more than you expected to pay, just buy the dern thing and enjoy it. Life is too short to try to beat the seller out of less than one night's entertainment.

ROAs are plentiful, just maybe not at the price one wants to pay. So you makes your choice. If you really want one, they are out there. Buy one and have fun. Ruger is not likely to make them again...well, maybe an anniversary model in 50 years. You are welcome to wait if you want to.

No, I am not rich. I am just not into denying myself something that I really want because it is a few bucks more than it was a few years ago.

 

[Jim K]

They were of no interest to people who wanted modern cartridge guns. And they were scorned by the black powder folks because they were not "historical". (Neither are brass framed .44 "Navies", but the ROA didn't even look like anything Robert E. Lee used.)

So, slow sales and curtains.

Jim

 

[Jaymo]

Yeah, I don't think I'll be waiting until I'm 91 to buy one.

 

[Pancho]

As the ROA is a knock off of the Remingtion solid top. I like to thing what would have happened if they had made a commitment to build a similar firearm based on the Colts 61 army. My name would definitely be on that list. kllllllllll

 

[kBob]

I got interested and got in the wayback machine to check prices in 1976.

OK actually I pulled the 1976 Gun Digest annual out of my library and looked in the catalog section.

ROA listings were:
Blue $125
Blue with brass Dragoon triggerguard and grip $140
SS $167.50

The Actual Colt 51 was $135 and their 3rd Model Dragoon was $204

The High Standard Confederates were $145

An Italian walker was not more than $130
Italian Remington 1858 types not more than $126
same with adjustable sights not more than $152.45

Rugers basic single caliber Blackhawk cartridge guns were $119.75 blued or $149.75 SS and the blued two cylinder convertables were $142.80

PRice wise the ROA does not seem that much out of line.....until you notice I used the term "not more than'. Gun DIgest gave ranges of prices on types of guns while at first glance it appears a ROA might be cheaper than one or more outfits .44 Remington (as it was) there were apearently firms that managed to sell target sighted Remmies for as low as about $75. All the Italian guns were over a wide spread with the price differences being between about 35 to 50 percent off those top prices being offered.

All means nothing I just thought it interesting, especially that Ruger could go from plainjane cartridge Blackhawk to ROA with only about a $6 increase in cost to the buyers.

And for reference I think Minimum wage was just over $500 a month then and gas was dispite the earlier embargo under a buck a gallon IIRC

-kBob

 

[artee]

In the summer of '75, minimum wage was $1.65 an hour. For a 4wk month, that's $264.

 

[kBob]

SO I was wrong a and I went and looked up Min wage and federal law made min wage $2.30 @ by 1976 which looks like $368 for four 40 hour weeks. Plain blue ROA cost just over 54 hours of 1976 minwage work....except the proices likely went up to take acount for the manditory wage hikes.

-kBob

 

[CraigC]

No, I am not rich. I am just not into denying myself something that I really want because it is a few bucks more than it was a few years ago.

I like the way you think!

SS $167.50

And with inflation that would be $632 in today's money. If that's MSRP, then street price would be around $474. Which is not at all out of line compared to the cartridge models but I think a lot of folks have been accustomed to getting Italian replicas for $200.

 

[Busyhands94]

you know what i would like is if they made the old army in .32 for small game, .36, .45, and .50, the idea of having a .50 cap and ball just appeals to me, i would REALLY like that.

 

[steelbird]

Robhof-

You commented that the ROA is (was?)the only USA made cap and ball revolver. Unless NAA is making their mini revolvers outside of the USA, their "Companion" guns are cap and ball. I know, not the same league as the ROA, but a USA made cap and ball, AFAIK.

 

[Busyhands94]

Steelbird, they do indeed make them in the USA (buy American made items frequently) i have two NAA cap and ball guns, they are built like little Ruger Old Armies! you can use smokeless in them too.

 

[AbitNutz]

Truth is...you want to improve the ROA? Make a cylinder to use the 209 primer. A couple of gunsmiths do it in Britain to subvert the laws but the costs are astronomical.

Forget RWS, Remington, CCi, 10's, 11's etc...use a leap in technology and make all those problems go away. The 209 shotgun shell primer I suspect would solve all of these issue.

 

[kBob]

AbitNutz,

I have a revolver much very like a ROA that has no primer issues, it is called a Ruger Blackhawk and uses these things called cartridges. Big leap forward!

Just teasing.

-kBob

 

[robhof]

steelbird, you are right and I should be ashamed, because my NAA Companion has been with me longer than my current ROA. I've even been coveting the EARL b/p, which they recently put into production.

 

[AbitNutz]

They also have other guns called automatics that carry 15 or more of the, what was it? Cartridges? They have made the revolver, in any form, obsolete.

The revolver was the highest form of muzzle loader. Using a cartridge misses the point. There is an elegance to the ROA that IMO is unmatched. Changing to a better fitting primer just is a bit of evolution.

 

[MCgunner]

As much as I admire the ROA as a robust revolver I have to admit that they are too heavy and are way too muzzle heavy which makes them hard to shoot accurately ( at least for me ) . An 1858 with a 5 1/2" tube is wonderful in my hand.

I just ordered a 5.5" Pietta 58. While I hope it shoots well, I'm skeptical that it could POSSIBLY outshoot my ROA which is the finest BP I've ever fired, most accurate. My Stainless got stolen, bought my blued one used, but it's in great shape.

They made very few changes to the ROA up until the 5-1/2 and it sold like hot cakes. I wish they would have continued to make changes and maybe a bit more development.
Perhaps one in 36 caliber? Or maybe mess with the hammer and cylinder to ensure even better ignition.

How about if they built an ROA in .36 on a frame similar to the Single Six Magnums? I'd LOVE to have a compact .36 of a modern design in stainless with adjustable sights! But, hell, I'd settle for reintroduction of the regular Old Army. I'd like to get another Stainless one. A fixed sight 5.5"er in stainless would be awesome. maybe I'll get a used one some day, lots of 'em on Gunbroker if you have the cash.

 

[tango2echo]

I fish offshore and had a Ruger BOD member onboard our 43' Cabo wahoo fishing last October. I asked why they quit making the ROA and he said it came down to cost vs. profit. They can make a hell of a lot more money selling LCR's, 556's, LCP's, and similar than they can on a gun that requires 8-10 man hours to build and fit and fills a very small demand. They kept all the tooling but have no plans to build ROA's in the near future. I asked about "special runs" and "anniversary models" and was told "I doubt it."

t2e

 

[AbitNutz]

Yes the price would be crazy but I would like to see Clements Guns come out with his version of a black powder pistol. I think about the only part he hasn't made is the receiver itself.

I do wish that Ruger would bring it back. A nice 32 would be just the ticket.

I'm really busy figuring different loads for my ROA. I have had several BigLube molds converted to hollow points, steel sprue plates, better handles and cam handles. Drilled and tapped for set screws to keep everything tight and some Bullplate to keep it smooth.
The downside is the mold is heavy but the sprue plates trough, instead of having to hold the mold over individual fill holes works crazy good. You just start filling the trough and all the cavities get filled. I do preheat the mold with a small griddle and a single electric cooker. I think that is one of the keys to getting this to work.

45 gr of triple 7 over a 200 gr HP BigLube is just wicked. I get good expansion, great accuracy, not lube mess, no leading and a big smile.

 

[CraigC]

Clements is also doing Bisley conversions on Old Armies now too.

 

[Loosenock]

If Ruger would make any ROA my little ol' heart desires it would be:

On Ruger's New Vaquero frame, 3 inch barrel with "birdhead grips" and .36 caliber. That would be the ultimate "Avenging Angle".

D.D.

 

[kBob]

Loosenock,

Brother Rockwell might step back to this side of the vail to get his hands on that one!

-kBob

 

[ReloaderEd]

Bill Ruger was quoted as saying "The ROA is the best firarm we have ever made and Ruger will alway produce it." His son promptly forgot that statement and cancelled production of the ROA. Now days anything they make people buy. Yes they are in it for the money but they have forgotten there base supporters. Nor do they care about their base supporters including their loyal dealers. Personally I have enjoyed Rugers over the years from my first flat top .357 to my 22 hornet bolt rifle. But I have enough firearms which my off spring now have and shoot. But for me I am done with Ruger. Take Care!!Be Safe!!!

 

[CraigC]

Yes they are in it for the money but they have forgotten there base supporters.

This is complete and utter nonsense. It's also very sad to see crap like this posted here because one of the areas where they have been the most responsive is their single action line. Since Bill's death the company has been MUCH more responsive to consumer demands. He retired in 2000 but had not been in charge of operations for some time anyway.

Bill Jr. retired in 2006.

The Old Army was discontinued in 2008. Why? Lack of sales. Folks act as if it was done to slight them personally.

Get your facts straight, that is how rumors get started.

But for me I am done with Ruger.

And for imagined reasons.