Why do FFL dealers do this?

[Olympus]

Why do some dealers throw a fit or refuse to do FFL transfers from a private seller? Say I want to a gun from an out of state seller, why do some dealers not want to do the transfer because it is coming from a private seller instead of another dealer? I guess I don't know the whole process, but are there more hoops to go through when the gun comes from a private seller as opposed to another dealer?

 

[cbrgator]

Because that FFL is responsible for that firearm and he has no way of verifying its a legal weapon until it gets to his shop, at which point he is already F'd. If he receives it from another FFL, that other FFL will have had the opportunity to inspect the gun in person before it gets dropped in the mail so the FFL receiving it can be assured its the correct and legal gun. It's essentially a hedge against the receiving FFL losing his license. He practicing CYA.

 

[waterhouse]

The main reason is that too many private sellers, even when given explicit instructions to do so, don't include

a)their name and address with the gun, so that the dealer can log it in
b) the name and contact information of the person who bought the gun, so that the dealer can contact them and let them know their gun has arrived.

Most FFLs include a copy of their license with the gun, as well as an itemized receipt which lists the purchaser. Many private sellers include a copy of their driver license and a note saying who the gun belongs to. These are great.

I've gotten packages that contain only a gun, no paperwork at all. Every once in a while someone uses their work shipping dept. to send a gun with no paperwork, so then I don't even have a return address.

If every shipper included the information they were supposed to, more dealers would probably accept shipments from private individuals, but I find that dealers are much more likely to include the needed information than non dealers.

 

[SaxonPig]

Hmmm... A guy who makes his living selling guns would rather sell you one from his inventory than transfer one from somewhere else. Gee, I have no idea why some dealers aren't too keen on doing transfers.

Seriously, some just see it as too much bother to justify the money they make. Don't whine and complain, find another FFL. Some P/T FFLS exist solely to do transfers. Pawn shops will also sometimes do them.

The GunBroker home page has a list of dealers in your area with their fees. Shop around.

 

[Olympus]

Well I guess I understand a little better now. I suppose not everyone is honest in telling their FFL what exactly they're going to be receiving. Frustrating, but makes sense. It just sucks because all the FFLs around charge you to ship plus the cost of shipping as well as to receive.

I guess FTFs are the way to go.

 

[waterhouse]

Hmmm... A guy who makes his living selling guns would rather sell you one from his inventory than transfer one from somewhere else. Gee, I have no idea why some dealers aren't too keen on doing transfers.

The question was not why some dealers don't do transfers, it is why some dealers don't accept transfers from non dealers.

 

[DHJenkins]

While searching for an FFL, I was basically accused of being a criminal by a hysterical woman over the phone at a gun store when I asked how much they would charge to handle the transfer of a stripped AR lower.

Takes all kinds...

 

[nalioth]

Because that FFL is responsible for that firearm and he has no way of verifying its a legal weapon until it gets to his shop, at which point he is already F'd. If he receives it from another FFL, that other FFL will have had the opportunity to inspect the gun in person before it gets dropped in the mail so the FFL receiving it can be assured its the correct and legal gun. It's essentially a hedge against the receiving FFL losing his license. He practicing CYA.

. . . and your FFL holders can tell at a glance if it's "legal" or not?

Or is your FFL also a LEO and can call in the serial on every weapon s/he receives (and his or her department doesn't mind the extra overhead)?

I'm not sure what you're getting at, honestly.

waterhouse hit it dead on.

 

[Olympus]

Hmmm... A guy who makes his living selling guns would rather sell you one from his inventory than transfer one from somewhere else. Gee, I have no idea why some dealers aren't too keen on doing transfers.

The only reason I buy out of state is because I can't find what I want locally. If the dealer had what I wanted, I'd likely buy it from them. By the time you add shipping and FFL fees to any out of state "deal", you end up paying just about the same as if you bought locally. This is especially true with used guns, which is what I bought. I can see how dealers wouldn't want to do a transfer on a new gun that they have sitting in their own display. We're talking apples and oranges with used guns though.

 

[SaxonPig]

I misread the post.

Many FFLs are ignorant of the law and believe that guns must be shipped from FFL to FFL. I have met many such men. Others know the law but refuse non-FFL shipments as policy. I am sure they have their reasons (maybe liability or an abject fear of the jack booted thugs... I mean the ATF) but they elude me. I have accepted numerous guns shipped across state lines from unlicensed sellers when buying C&R qualified guns.

You have to ask first and find another if the first FFL balks.

 

[Walkalong]

I have one FFL who will not deal with a transfer of a gun from a non FFL, wether it is shipped from an FFL or not. His choice. I have another who will. No big deal to him, all he wants is a DL copy from them.

The first FFL isn't wild about transfers period, but I have bought a good bit from him over the years, and still buy from him, so he does it for me. He understands when I buy a gun from somewhere else when I can't find it local. It would be years before some things show up around here.

 

[nalioth]

I have one FFL who will not deal with a transfer of a gun from a non FFL, wether it is shipped from an FFL or not.

How does he stay in business?

All gun distributors hold FFLs.

 

[dirtyjim]

they do it because they don't want to do transfers & its just one more excuse for them not to do it. i collect prewar sporting rifles so i can rarely buy off the shelf. i've bought about 50 rifles off gunbrocker in the last couple years. about 40% of those came from dealers. for the most part the individuals i bought from were just as good about putting a invoice with their name & address in the box & packed the guns better than the dealers.
i have a c&r so i usually don't have to do transfers but when i do their is no way i would use one of the " i only accept shipments from ffl's" dealers.

 

[huntsman]

Hmmm... A guy who makes his living selling guns would rather sell you one from his inventory than transfer one from somewhere else. Gee, I have no idea why some dealers aren't too keen on doing transfers.

What works for me is to establish a good relationship with a gunshop owner. Tell him exactly what you want, condition and what your price limit is then let him find it.

The guys I've used enjoyed the "hunt" and got me what I wanted and I paid MY price if they make a few bucks that even better all that matters is I'm satisfied.

 

[Gaffer]

The ATF has been very tough on some dealers and the threat of losing their FFL is always hanging over their heads. Most do not want to chance the tranfer of a non-FFL gun for fear that there is something amiss that will cost them their FFL. Sounds reasonable to me and should to every honest law a biding gun buyer.

 

[Olympus]

What works for me is to establish a good relationship with a gunshop owner. Tell him exactly what you want, condition and what your price limit is then let him find it.

The guys I've used enjoyed the "hunt" and got me what I wanted and I paid MY price if they make a few bucks that even better all that matters is I'm satisfied.

You must have some good gun shop owners where you're from. Here in a large city, all of the gun shop owners could give a crap less about you unless you've bought several guns from them in the past and paid their nice little mark up. I would say 80% of them here in the city are jerks. I've been looking for a Python recently and I thought, on a long shot, that I'd just call all the gun shops and pawns in the yellow pages and see if they might have one. I can't even tell you the number of times I got laughed at when asking. I know it's a hard gun to find, but was it really appropriate to laugh at a guy that's just trying to cover the bases? Then you get the ones that tell you that you'll never find one. I've heard that 3 or 4 times. Now I wish I would have remembered who all I called and tell them that now I currently own two!

I think the moral of my story is if you ever find a dealer that treats you right, treat them right too. I just haven't found one yet.

 

[huntsman]

I think the moral of my story is if you ever find a dealer that treats you right, treat them right too. I just haven't found one yet.

I'm from a rural area so maybe dealers are more accommodating. I've used two over the last 15 years buying about half a dozen guns from each; of those probably half were special orders.

One guy would do a search then call me on the phone with 3 options then we'd decide which I wanted to try first.

Sometimes I'd give some money up front ( 50%) sometimes not, one dealer and I had similar tastes so He'd say I don't need any front money because if you don’t want the gun when it comes I’ll just keep it.

 

[waterhouse]

they do it because they don't want to do transfers & its just one more excuse for them not to do it.

I really doubt this. If they don't want to do transfers they can either say "we don't do transfers" or they can charge a high fee (say, $100) for transfers to discourage it.

i've bought about 50 rifles off gunbrocker in the last couple years. about 40% of those came from dealers. for the most part the individuals i bought from were just as good about putting a invoice with their name & address in the box & packed the guns better than the dealers.

I have over 50 guns come through a month, probably 65% from dealers. I agree, for the most part, individuals are pretty good about including the necessary information. The difference is that just about every single dealer includes it, and 85% of non-dealers include it. For the most part, non-dealers are fine, but it only takes a couple times of having to spend 30 minutes trying to track down a seller for it to get old. I'm pretty low volume and it isn't that big a deal to me, but if I had 200 guns a month coming in I wouldn't have time to deal with the 15% who can't follow basic instructions.

I've spoken to other dealers about this issue. A very small percentage believe that they would be breaking a law. I don't know what to say about them. Most that don't accept from non-dealers have their policy in place because a few bad apples spoiled the bunch.

 

[Olympus]

I'm from a rural area so maybe dealers are more accommodating. I've used two over the last 15 years buying about half a dozen guns from each; of those probably half were special orders.

I'd say you're probably right. I've lived my whole life in a very rural area and have only just recently moved to a big city. I haven't even been here a year yet. There is a big difference in the dealers here in the city and the ones back home.

 

[dirtyjim]

waterhouse, the few dealer's i know of that only accept shipments from ffls also charge roughly double what the two dealers that i use for transfers charge.
i'm not trying to beat up on the dealers but the only two real problems i've ever had came from dealers not individuals. i got a mannlicher schoenauer 1903 off gunbroker & had it shipped to my local dealer because the seller doesn't accept c&r ffl's. i have a stack of signed ffl's from my main dealer that i use so i don't have to go to his gunshop to pick one up evertime i win an auction. i just call him, let him know what i won & who its coming from so he will know to expect it. it showed up priority mail with no paperwork of any kind, only the first & last initials of the seller on the shipping label. the owner went on vacation that week & the post it note saying they were expecting the rifle for me somehow got lost & i was working out of town at the time so i figured they would call me when i came in like they always do & i would pick it up over the week end.
the other time i had a dealer just throw a rifle in a cardboard box with no packing material at all & the stock broke at the wrist during shipping. it was a project rifle & i wasn't planning on using that stock so i didn't make a big deal out of it but i wouldn't buy from that guy ever again.