Gunbroker.com Transfer Problem

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Tejas is absolutely right in that he and those who do business like him won't be getting any of my money.

The guy I use for my transfers only charges $15 and accepts guns from non-FFLs. I value his services, so I give him my money whenever I can, even when there are other options that are a bit more convenient.

There are annoying dealers out there, but keep in mind that the FFL business isn't as easy going as most other types.

Find an FFL who does it right, and then do your best to support him.
 
You have no idea how I conduct business. All I have said is that the business owner makes the rules, not the customer. This is true of every business.
 
Dealers/Shipments/FFL's

The dealer is right. He has every right NOT to accept shipment from a non-FFL. Also, the customer has every right to find an FFL dealer who will if he so chooses. The dealer also HAS the choice of getting OUT of the business if he feels that the pressure of being a dealer is too much on him (ANY DEALER, ANY PRODUCT). Bedside manner is 80% of being a doctor, no matter how much you can't stand the patient.
 
The point is it is my business. If you don't like how I conduct my business go some where else. You have no rights, it's mine. If you want to make the rules go get your own business. Don't tell me it is your dollars, I understand that, there are some things more important to me than your dollars. If I want to close on Sunday, I will. If I want to charge $100.00 for a tranfer, I will. If I want to accept tranfers form FFL's only, I will. Yes, as the owner, I am always right, in my business. You have absolutely no rights whatsoever. If you choose to spend your money elsewhere, OK, it's your money, I have no right with your money. If you think you can do it so much better than me, go start your own business and put me out of business. Quit bitching.
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Counting the seconds till you're out of business, and ironically, bitching about the customers that drove you there.

If you do succeed, you should take no pride in it, because it was not earned with your attitude or business skills.
 
Swing, that's a little uncalled for. I've worked enough jobs serving customers in field service to retail that I know, you can NEVER make 100% of customers happy. In the end you just try to make a living pleasing those you can. Tejas says, "It's his rules." It's true. You do not have to patronize his shop. But let's not make snide remarks about him in passing, OK? I don't know about you, but $15 in exchange for a one-in-a-thousand chance of losing your FFL and/or going to Federal Pokey is not a good cost/benefit ratio. Since you guys are so quick to point out, there are those who will do this, then there is no NEED for Tejas to do this. Someone else already does. It would be different if he was the only gun shop in the state that took transfers. Then bitching would be in order. But it's still his bat and ball so he makes the rules.
 
To answer the original question, yes I have run into this as well. I successfully transfered in 3 handguns from gunbroker auctions before it happened to me.

As it turns out, those first three transfers were from sellers who had FFL's. The 4th attempt when south because the seller was a non-FFL holder and my FFL dealer refused to do the transfer.

My FFL only charges $10 so I really can't expect him to know or research all of the local or state laws that may impact a transfer. It really doesn't matter what the federal law allows so long as other laws are more restrictive.

It was not clear to me up front that the seller was not a licenced dealer, but I didn't ask either. It was a lesson learned for me. I will only buy from FFL holders from now on.
 
I have already said I do this type of transfer. The point I am making is that whatever issue you have with a business is that the owner gets to make the rules. If you do not like the rules, go somewhere else. I don't see the point in complaining about it. If you think you can do it better, do so. I'm a little tired of everyone complaining about every little thing someone else does or doesn't do. We have a different perspective. You think dealers have a bad attitude, I think some of you have a much worse attitude. If some of you came into my shop with the attitudes you have expressed in this forum, you would be escorted to the door and would be told to never come back. High Road indeed.
 
I respect Terry's right to pick a business model and run with it, and I get the impression that he respects my right to do business anywhere I choose (be it at his shop or somebody else's). Y'all just aren't getting his message - that you have no right to take an FFL to task for picking a business model and sticking to it. It's his money, and his livelihood, and he get's to decide how that all works out. You don't. If you expect a different business model, then find a different business or put up your own business and see how well that works out for you.

There is no peace or happiness to be found in trying to be all things to all people all the time. Pick what ya do, and do it well. Those that want it and respect it will respect you - those that don't, won't. And that's real life
 
Your dollars isn't worth my 20years in prison ...Texas Gunworks
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how would you get 20 years for doing something perfectly legal?...saddlebum
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Texas Gunworks,
Could you answer saddlebum's question.

In your quote above you seem to state that the transfer is illegal. Is it illegal or were you blowing smoke?


Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
I'd give Tejas my business

Tejas said:

I have already said I do this type of transfer.
Click to expand...

If I was in Austin, I'd give Tejas my business. So far I've had no luck here.
None of the pawn shops will to do a transfer; FFL or not. No gun shop within 30 miles will touch this deal either.

These guys are really afraid of the Feds. One gun shop owner had a visit from ICE. They wanted to see his ammo sales records. He told them he was not required to show them his receipts, but he complied. As they left, he told them not to come back without a warrant or supoena.

The next morning, the ATF was at his door, and they wanted to see his gun sales records for the last TWENTY years.

This guy doesn't want to take any chances.
 
Tejas Gunwerks would never get my buisness



On a side note, the problem these days is no one wants to give you signed copies of an ffl to do transfers,they only want to do faxes .

Some sellers will not accept faxes and it is easier to simply put the ffl in with your money order.

When i bought my first gun off gunbroker,the seller would not accept a fax and i had to drive an hour away to the nearest ffl who would give me a signed copy .A real pain because there are at least 5 ffl dealers within 15 Minutes of my house

I have bought 3 guns off of gunbroker since then from sellers that accept faxed ffls,but for all 3 I still went back to the ffl that gives signs copies .i also went there when i sold 3 guns i did not like(goodbye S&W 910,hello P229 lol :D )

My friends think I'm crazy to drive 2 hours round trip when a fax can be handled in 10 extra minutes.

Because i think it is easier for buyers to simply get an ffl and put it in with a money order,I will continue to drive the 2 hours to do my transfers because i appreciate the fact that he offers it.
 
"Texas Gunworks,
Could you answer saddlebum's question.

In your quote above you seem to state that the transfer is illegal. Is it illegal or were you blowing smoke?


Respectfully,

jdkelly"

It doesn't seem to be illegal. Could the firearm have been stolen or use in a crime, sure. Could the tranferer use bogus ID to ship the firearm, sure. Does this transfer particularly bother me, no. But the recieving FFL has a right to run his business they way he wants. I don't see anything constructive coming out of this debate. If the FFL doen't meet your needs, go somewhere else. Why complain? Some of you want to be able to tell the FFL how to run his business, yet when he tells you how to run yours, you get indignant.
 
Quote:
Your dollars isn't worth my 20years in prison ...Texas Gunworks



Quote:
how would you get 20 years for doing something perfectly legal?...saddlebum


My involvement in this thread is the attitude above. It my money and you will do as I say. Well, no, I won't. It is my business, you will do as I ask, or take your business elsewhere. You don't have enough money to get me to do something illegal. Again, I am not saying this thread is about illegal activity. I'm sure everyone reading this can understand why this type of transaction is riskier than a FFL to FFL transfer. If it was an illegal transaction who is more likely to go to prision, the FFL or you the transferee?
 
The argument of, well if you dont like how I do it... go somewhere else." is a tired one. And more often than not.... very common in the gun world.


But that is just what I did. After getting giving my business to a local FFL several times, the final time I tried to setup a transfer, he jacked me around. I called him on it, he gave me that some old lines....

So here I am two years later with my own business and FFL.

I charge $10 for transfers ( plus state fee )

Because 2 minutes of paperwork is easily worth the $10 I charge. Not to mention that I am establishing an honest relationship with new customers. Because when I treat them right on something as small as a transfers they will come to me to buy ammo, parts, accys, etc. Or when they want to order a new pistol... they call me first to give a quote.

If marijuana is a gateway drug, transfers are a gateway transaction to bigger transactions for my business.


All of this talk about "what if it is stolen, etc.?"

Again, a 30 second phone call can check that out, if it is stolen, notify your customer, the seller or call the law. your ass is always covered this way.


Bad attitudes are a major factor in lessening our image. More new/interested shooters get turned off by jerks in gunshops than anything else.

I got into business to change that.

The dealer who burned me before I got my FFL is now out of business... not because of me... but he is still gone.


my .02
 
I am guessing Shweboner hasn't been in business very long. Just wait until the BATFE audits you, same with your State Comptroller. $10.00 (Plus State Fee) seems very attractive for 2 minutes of work. What about the 20 years you have to keep all this paperwork on file. That could be up to 20 compliance inspections. If you or your customer did something wrong on the 4473 you could be fined, loose your business or go to prision. The BATFE has 20 chances to do this to you. The Comptroller just did an audit on me. For all the transfers I did now I have to come up with justification as to why I didn't collect state sales tax. 2 minutes of work, try weeks and weeks of work. While I'm doing all of this silly make work, I am not earning money. So you charge $10.00 for a transfer, what happens when a customer walks in and says $10.00 is too much, it will happen, do you cave because the customer is always right or do you stand your ground and insist $10.00 is fair? Since you think it is right that the customer get to dictate your shop rules I guess your transfer fee is now $5.00, until the next one comes along. I'm happy you can check serial number, almost no FFL has this option. Most have to take chances a firearms is not stolen. Run your business for a few years then come back and talk.
 
Tejas Gunwerks said:
You see, that is my choice. My attitude is a direct result of "customer" attitudes. I get tired of all the complaints about how this dealer did that. If you don't like how he conducts business, why are you taking the "low road" by complaining on a nartional forum? If you can build a better mouse trap, go do it.
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You see, that's their choice. It's their right to complain about it, just as it's your right to refuse a sale or display a poor attitude to potential customers. Hell, if they wanted to, it's well within their rights to go outside your shop with picket signs everyday and voice their complaints and poor experiences about you to anybody who was planning to go in. Is it nice? No. But as you so vehemently protest "it's your shop, you can run it as you please within the confines of the law", you must also acknowledge "it's their time, they can spend it as they please within the confines of the law" and exercise their legal right to protest you and your shop.

You seem to want customers to show courtesy to you when you not only fail to do the same in return, but show a God-complex attitude that is downright disrespectful. Sorry. They're justified in every legal or moral way to come away with the same poor attitude you showed them. Welcome to the real world, where some 90% of gun shops fail.



To my fellow THR or TFL'ers, this is why I don't always support local gun shops over the big guys like Walmart/Dick's/Sports Authority/Bass pro. There's one shop nearby owned by man with a great attitude and fair prices, I always give him my cash whenever possible. But with the abundance of shops like Tejas, frankly, it's clear that many small shops deserve to go out of business. This is not the first time these kinds of experiences have been related. Almost all of us have been into shops run by terrible, slovenly and unfriendly people. With the array of options available now, these places not only fail to deliver meaningful service or prices, they often do more harm than good. How many potential shooters are turned away when they walk into a gun shop to be turned off gun ownership by some arrogant jerk? Support the good local places that need and deserve it. Let the poor shops be consumed by the corporates.
 
razorburn you seem to be missing the whole point, the dealer said no, and the customer disrespected him. The customer said it's his money and he could take it elsewhere, what a horrible dealer/ffl for not doing exactly what the customer wanted. The dealer is the wronged person. You seem to think it is a one way street, many more customers wrong dealers than dealers wronging customers. Why can't you look in the mirror and face up to the facts? Now you have given me the idea of picketing outside customer's houses who have wronged me.
 
I've purchased several firearms off of gunbroker and auctionarms without much of a hitch. I even sold a rifle on auctionarms and shipped it myself without an FFL. I made sure that I checked out the United States Post Office regulations on their website before shipping my rifle. I noticed that all pistols had to be shipped from FFL to FFL. Long guns can be shipped by anyone as long as it is being shipped to an FFL. I just had to send the firearm registered mail and provide a copy of the FFL license to the Post Office. It pretty much is easy to do the only thing is I didn't charge enough for shipping and lost a little money on the deal.

I don't know why the FFL you wanted to use has a problem about accepting long guns from a non FFL, but that is his decision. I don't know if he is worried about a firearm that isn't legal or he has other concerns. You just have to respect his decision and find someone else to do the transfer.

I have a question for all the FFL holders out there, if you ship a firearm for someone who does the transfer? I have a firearm being shipped to me and part of the shipping cost is $25 for a transfer, I was under the impression that the transfer paperwork was done on my end and my FFL collected the money. Does the person shipping the firearm through the FFL on his end also have to do a transfer? The only reason I asked is that I agreed to buy this rifle and after I sent the money order the guy said he had misquoted the price and I owed him another $15 for shipping, handling, and transfer. This brings the total cost of shipping to $50, is he getting ripped of by his FFL?
 
The shipping FFL has to receive the firearm. The appropriate information has to be recorded in his Bound Book. The FFL is providing a service and I see no reason he shouldn't charge for it.
 
Tejas I agree with you the shipping FFL has the right to set his prices but $25 to record the firearm in his book seems a little steep to me. My FFL also ships firearms and says that it rarely cost over $20 to ship a long gun and he charges a flat rate of $35 to ship a firearm. He only charges $15 to do the transfer when I receive one in through him. I just think that the FFL is over pricing his services, but who am I to argue with him if I want the rifle.:rolleyes: I was just a little confused because I was being told that the transfer was being done in PA and I live in CO. I was just wanting to mainly know what kind of transfer was being done on their end?
 
The sending FFL is opening himself to risk, worse case he can go to prison. He has to keep those records for 20 years. If something was done wrong and it is serious enough he can go to prision and pay a fine begining in any of those 20 years. To some dealers it isn't worth the risk envolved for a mere $15, $20, $25.00.
 
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