Gunbroker.com Transfer Problem

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RioShooter

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I won an auction for a gun on gunbroker.com and contacted a transfer dealer listed on their website. He refused to transfer the gun because the seller is not an FFL. The seller stated that he has done over 100 transactions and only 2 dealers required him to have an FFL.

Now I have to find another dealer that will accept a gun from a non-FFL.

:banghead:


Has anyone else experienced this?
 
Not Illegal?

I live in Texas and the seller is in Arkansas. The seller said it is not illegal for him to do this, as long as he ships the gun to an FFL in Texas.
 
Just sit down with your local phone book and call all the gun stores, pawn shops, gun ranges, and gunsmiths listed. You should find one that will do it for you. If not you can ask the seller to have a dealer send the handgun. You may have to pay the added expense though.
 
More of a CYA for the accepting dealer I'd guess. Best thing is to get this stuff straigtened out BEFORE you do the deal.
 
The seller is correct in that he can ship to a
out of state ffl holder but some ffl holders
won't accept a gun from a non ffl holder.
I've sold a few guns out of state and always
ask the buyer if his transfering ffl will accept
a gun from a non ffl holder.I've never had any
problems but i've been asked to include a
copy of my DL and a bill of sales.
 
from batf web site.

B8) May a no- licensee ship a firearm by common or contract carrier? [Back]


A no- licensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or TO A LICENSEE IN ANY STATE A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun. In addition, Federal law requires that the carrier be notified that the shipment contains a firearm and prohibits common or contract carriers from requiring or causing any label to be placed on any package indicating that it contains a firearm.
 
This problem is occurring more and more. It's perfectly legal for a non-FFL to ship to an FFL (only the person GETTING the gun must be licensed) but I have found that 90% of FFLs don't know the law, or are afraid to do anything except the absolutely safe for fear of the ATF, or just don't want to accept shipments from no-FFLs for whatever reason.

Make sure your tranasfer dealer is OK with it before bidding or buying.
 
More of a CYA for the accepting dealer I'd guess. Best thing is to get this stuff straigtened out BEFORE you do the deal.
Click to expand...

Make sure your tranasfer dealer is OK with it before bidding or buying.
Click to expand...

Usually a non-FFL seller states that fact in their ad. Some will state that the buyer is required to pay for the transfer between TWO FFL's.

This seller stated nothing regarding this in his ad. Next time I'll ask.
 
A no- licensee may ship a firearm by a common or contract carrier to a resident of his or her own State or TO A LICENSEE IN ANY STATE A common or contract carrier must be used to ship a handgun.
Click to expand...
Being allowed to ship it is only the first part of the problem. The second issue, far more important than the first, is that you have to find an FFL with the appropriate license who's willing to receive the shipment, log it in, and then transfer it to you. That's where things get sticky, because it's not uncommon to find that a local FFL will only accept transfers from another FFL.

When I first encountered this, the tin-foil-hat side of me figgered that this was just my local FFL's way of trying to force me to buy from his stock. Then the statist side of me decided that he was taking this attitude to help ensure that he didn't inadvertently pass along a firearm that wasn't legal. Finally, the realist side of me saw what an FFL has to do to keep the BATFE boyz off his back, and I realized that the profit margin in transfers probably wasn't worth the risk to his business should he get in the habit of accepting transfers from an unknown third party. At least taking in weapons on trade or sale (same situation as taking in an out of state transfer from a private party) allows the FFL to evaluate the situation first hand and also make some money for the risk.

I've had the best luck using pawn shops for transfers - they tend to be cheaper and more willing to accept a transfer from a private party. I can only guess that it's easier for them to reconstitute theuir business should they run afoul of the Boyz From BATFE than it would be for a brick-n-mortar gun shop.
 
At first my Dealer said it was against the law. Then after I proved him wrong, by showing him the ATF regulation, he was ok with it. All worked out well, and now he knows.
 
it may be legal by federal law... but state and county laws may be more restrictive. For instance, Here on long island (NY) handguns must be shipped from out of state FFL to FFL. Long guns can come from a non FFL but all handguns either new or used must be from an FFL. check your local laws before you call out your dealer cause he may be referring to local, county or state laws covering handgun transfers.

ATF will not have the local laws listed and the local ATF office may not know. Call your county or state police or who ever issues the CCW in your area and ask them about transfers from out of state.
 
Your dollars isn't worth my 20 years in prison.
Click to expand...
... shows the mentality of dealers these days.

In any event I was thinking of selling one of my guns for some needed cash, but decided that it's SUCH A PAIN to get guns nowadays that I'll never ever sell one once I've managed to walk of out the store with it.
 
The point is it is my business. If you don't like how I conduct my business go some where else. You have no rights, it's mine. If you want to make the rules go get your own business. Don't tell me it is your dollars, I understand that, there are some things more important to me than your dollars. If I want to close on Sunday, I will. If I want to charge $100.00 for a tranfer, I will. If I want to accept tranfers form FFL's only, I will. Yes, as the owner, I am always right, in my business. You have absolutely no rights whatsoever. If you choose to spend your money elsewhere, OK, it's your money, I have no right with your money. If you think you can do it so much better than me, go start your own business and put me out of business. Quit bitching.
 
You have no rights, it's mine.
Click to expand...

Actually, consumers do have various rights in regards to private businesses. For example, in certain states, though a dealer can generally refuse a sale, he cannot refuse a sale due to racial, sex, marital status, religion, and in some states, sexual orientation . Some states exempt small businesses. Some do not. If you are not exempt from the law, then you face fines and civil penalties.

Terry, I have respect for your business. Gun dealers in general have a tough job. However, simply articulating "I don't want to do it" may not be so cut and dried as far as the legalities are concerned.

Why are you as a person so afraid that someone sending your business a firearm via contract carrier will result in you getting put in prison? It's completely legal under federal law, and if state law allows it, then it's legal. What would the point be of having an FFL on the other end? He can't run a NICS check on that person selling the firearm anyway.
 
With an attitude like that, I would tend to assume that Tejas Gunwerks might be another failed small business in the near future. Terry, your response was not what I would call taking the higher road on this subject. Lastly, it is perfectly legal for an out of state FFL holder to transfer a firearm transaction provided the "shipper" submits the proper information with the shipment. Each state can add additional identification requirements, but most just require a copy of a valid drivers license.
 
I am not comenting on matters of law, but of policy, the way I conduct my business. As far a selling a gun to someone, I don't have to. There is no law on the books making me do so. Now, I am not stupid enough to say I won't sell you a firearms because you are black or white, or straight or gay. All I have to do is say it doesn't feel right. The BATFE has my back there. If all the "i's" aren't dotted or the "t's" crossed, I can go to prision. I personally do accept transfers for non-FFL's, but if a Dealer chooses not to, who are you to complain. The point of having an FFL on both ends is the sending FFL has met with the original owner of that firearm. He has checked his ID, he has met the person and can give a description of the person if need be. How do I know who sent the firearm to me if it is an individual? Identification is stolen every day. Yeah, it may be legal, I may not go to prision, still, I may have to spend hundreds of thousands of dollars defending myself, or I just may loose my license, no real fault of my own.
 
The point is it is my business. If you don't like how I conduct my business go some where else. You have no rights, it's mine. If you want to make the rules go get your own business. Don't tell me it is your dollars, I understand that, there are some things more important to me than your dollars. If I want to close on Sunday, I will. If I want to charge $100.00 for a tranfer, I will. If I want to accept tranfers form FFL's only, I will. Yes, as the owner, I am always right, in my business. You have absolutely no rights whatsoever. If you choose to spend your money elsewhere, OK, it's your money, I have no right with your money. If you think you can do it so much better than me, go start your own business and put me out of business. Quit bitching.
__________________
Tejas Gunwerks
Terry L. Davis
3411 Andtree Blvd.
Austin, TX 78724
(512) 926-8082 (Shop/Fax), 947-2122 (Cell)
http://www.tejasgunwerks.com
[email protected]
Awesome Gunsmith and Armorer
Click to expand...

For your sake, I hope those last two skills are better than your apparent attitude about customers. I've been in sales for 20 or so years. Customers are not always right, some a re a mjor pain in the butt. That said, providing products and/or services that customers value (pay for) is what pays the bills in any company.
 
"With an attitude like that, I would tend to assume that Tejas Gunwerks might be another failed small business in the near future"

You see, that is my choice. My attitude is a direct result of "customer" attitudes. I get tired of all the complaints about how this dealer did that. If you don't like how he conducts business, why are you taking the "low road" by complaining on a nartional forum? If you can build a better mouse trap, go do it.
 
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