Gunbroker.com Transfer Problem

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Well I have been in business for a little over two years. No problems yet.

But I am cautious in filling out the 4473 and I make sure that the customer deos it all correctly before calling in the NICS. Even if I have missed something it will be caught on the phone during the check.

Maybe you should give 100% even with transfers, preventing mistakes. You seem to view transfers as a hassle and a burden. Why do you do them?


I charge $10 because everyone else in my area charges $15-$20 or so for them. I try to beat the other guys price. If they go lower, then I go lower. If a customer gripes about the $10 (which has never happened) then I will show them that it is a fair price and that I am cheaper than anyone else in a 300 miles radius. Transfers are an opportunity for my business, while I cant afford advertising, a nice website, or a massive inventory... transfers are what keep people coming back to me, and that means repeat customers.

I long for the day that I can do this full time with a nice storefront, etc. But until then I will keep on rolling as I have been. Be friendly, honest and priced decently. So I can fear the ATF looking at my books, or I can do things right and have no worries. If I am not comfortable with a particular transaction, I will not do it. Everything depends on circumstances, each customer is different. So I choose not to adhere to a blanket policy of what ifs, and just in cases. If its legal I will do it, for a fair price with a smile on my face... (even if I cant stand the customer, I still have to put on my game face and do my job.


The customer is not always right... But neither am I.However, I am the decider and as such my word is final. But I can always make the customer happy while getting the $$$ I need.

I dont know how long you have been in business, I know I have not been around too long... but the principles are the same for any business. And I feel that the best way to conduct business is to do what I can when I can while setting my prices at a fair level while still covering my overhead, ertc.
 
OK, now what have you said that is different from what I have said. Bottom line it is your business, you get to make the rules. And good luck in your business.
 
"If I was in Austin, I'd give Tejas my business."

RioShooter we may have done business. I have attended the gunshow in McAllen and the current location in Pharr. I'm the dealer with all the AR-15's.
 
RioShooter we may have done business. I have attended the gunshow in McAllen and the current location in Pharr. I'm the dealer with all the AR-15's.
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I've been to the Pharr Gun Show, but I haven't purchased anything there; yet! I'll look for you the next time I'm there. I'd like to make your acquaintance.
 
Tejas Gunwerks said:
OK, now what have you said that is different from what I have said. Bottom line it is your business, you get to make the rules. And good luck in your business.
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What's differnt is he is saying his attitude toward the customer is extremely important. You should be good to any prospective customer, because it pays off in word of mouth. There are some people that you can never please, but if you try not to be a jerk to anyone people will notice.

You may follow the same attitude, but if you look over your posts you come of as, "I am king of the gunstore how darest thou question me."
 
Tejas Gunwerks said:
razorburn you seem to be missing the whole point, the dealer said no, and the customer disrespected him. The customer said it's his money and he could take it elsewhere, what a horrible dealer/ffl for not doing exactly what the customer wanted. The dealer is the wronged person. You seem to think it is a one way street, many more customers wrong dealers than dealers wronging customers. Why can't you look in the mirror and face up to the facts? Now you have given me the idea of picketing outside customer's houses who have wronged me.
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Disrespected him? The original post only said that his FFL wouldn't do the transfer, and so he has to look for somewhere else that will. You don't even know if he said anything to the dealer. There was nothing about disrespect there in the original post. But this thread has swerved off that direction with your posts, and that's not the point anymore. The poor disposition of certain shop owners as demonstrated by your posts has become the point of discussion in this thread. Your god complex posts and the attitude showing the lack of respect you described having for your customers in this thread is the point of the talk now, which you still have not justified and are now trying to back down from.

Yeah, I've worked in sales before too, and I can tell you some customers are hell. They're ignorant, rude, and have no respect. But you know what? Tough luck. That's part of the job. It doesn't give you a license to treat them all with a lack of courtesy. You can't handle dealing with people, get out of the sales business. If you want to picket outside customer's houses, go right ahead. You won't affect them, the only people going in and out are them and you're not driving anything away. But if they do it to your shop, that's your money they're driving away, and your livelihood going down the toilet. You can't pay the bills, you lose your home. We'll spend our money at shops like shweboner's.
 
It's a classic setup to send something illegal to someone. Knowing who sent it is important for their safety. The ATF put an FFL in Alaksa in prison because someone sent something illegal to him. No one could prove it was the ATF.
 
Well I’m glad I read this. I learned two things.

1 – See if my FFL transfer dealer will take shipments from individuals (not FFL holders).

2 – See if seller will take faxed copies of FFL’s.

Some business owners are jerks and some customers are jerks (that’s people).
Run your business how you want and I’ll buy where I want (hope neither of us are jerks and we’ll do business). At least that’s how I see it.
 
My responses are from a compilation of all the post, not specifically what RioShooter himself said. Specifically the following:

Quote:
Happens all the time. Some Dealers just prefer to work with other Dealers.


Yeah, and some dealers don't want my dollars.
__________________

My customers do get respect, most of them are nothing like you. When they show me disrespect they are shown the door and told not to come back. I am not backing down from anything. Just because you have a couple of dollars in your pocket doesn't give you the right to disrespect me. You don't get to dictate how I run my business. Take your dollars somewhere else, I don't need or want them. I would rather go out of business. Working in sales and being the owner of the business are two different things. Working in sales you have to satisfy you employer. You do that by satisfying your customers. The owner set the rules you play by. It is his company. You seem to think you speak for every arrogant, rude customer who thinks he is God's gift to the retail business. Well, pass it along, take your business elsewhere. I have plenty of decent, respectfuly customers.
 
ok this thread has turned into a severe pissing match between 1 dealer who has repeatedly said that he WILL accept transfers from private parties (the point of the thread) but that he defends the FFL's right to refuse them as a matter of policy.

several other THR members have piled on and stated that an FFL refusing to accept the transfer is wrong because since it isn't illegal, an FFL doesn't really have the right to refuse this transaction.

emotions aside, we can see that there are two avenues a customer can go. they can take their transfer (and future business) to another dealer, or just find another dealer for this one transaction and respect that FFL's business decision.

one thing that hasn't been pointed out is that the ATF itself has put out a bulletin requesting that FFL's do not send or fax copies of their FFL to non-licensees. this is a security measure to ensure that someone isn't running around with a copy of your FFL trying to fool other dealers that they are buying guns under the auspices of your FFL. granted this can happen with a crooked FFL, but generally, that is not seen as a problem since they have their own FFL to begin with.

in order for a private party to send an FFL dealer the weapon they must have a copy of the FFL's license. so basically, that private party now has a copy of your FFL for their records. granted most will use it for legitimate purposes, i.e. record keeping in case ATF runs a trace, they can say they shipped it to this FFL. however, there is a chance that this person can obtain an FFL and then go buy guns with it, and ruining all chances of an ATF trace in the future.

just something to think about.

and by the way, yes, Tejas Gunwerks is a pretty damn good gunsmith. :)
 
It just gets curiouser and curiouser. First the F troop wants you to not sign your licencse so that you can send copies to others signed in blue or red and then they tell you to not send them to people, just in case the guy is going to use the license unlawfully.

Curiouser and curiouser

Then they let the ffl fax them.

It they weren't so screwed up and messing with our rights it would be funny.

I have sold firearms on the internet and I always suggest that local instate bidders can do a face to face transfer without the ffl, mostly because I hold the atf in such low regard.

and the hubris of some ffls make me want out of their stores as soon as I figger it out. I hope those outfits go broke.
 
I've done business with Terry and Steve, and will continue to do so. They're both good guys and run good businesses. I make it a point to say hi to them whenever I make it to the Austin show because I remember their good prices and good service.

If fact, I'll see you guys this coming weekend, visiting family in tow. :)

That aside, what Terry is saying is really simple. It's his decision on how he runs his business and what risks he's willing to take. I can respect that he's probably just tired of "customers" whining and complaining instead of going to look for someone who will do business they way they want business done, no matter how impractical it is for the business owner.

How many of you people criticizing Terry would be amenable to someone demanding you change the way you run your business?
 
Gentlemen,

As a customer in a small town I have an interesting perspective.

We have a local gun shop owned by a very pleasant older gentleman. I really prefer to do business there even though I often have to pay up to 50% more for the things I purchase. I would just prefer to keep my money local.

He will not accept a private individual to FFL transfer for me. When he has done transfers for me he recently charged me $50 for the service.

I continue to do business with him. I ordered a custom rifle last year with a total cost of just over $1000 not including optics. When I asked the owner to accept the rifle for me he stated he would for a fee of 10% of the total cost of the rifle. I had already paid for the rifle 50% down on order 50% prior to shipment. We agreed to disagree on cost and I elected to drive 30 minutes to another town where a FFL accepted the rifle for $10.

Will I again do business with the local gun shop? Yes.

Will I drive out of town to do business with the other gun shop? You bet.

It is all about business and preferences.

Tejas Gunworks, I will do business with you when I am your way.

The fraternity of gun owners should strive to be a civil cohesive group. We may not agree on everything, but that does not preclude civility and business.

Charles
 
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Then I guess you were blowing smoke.

It doesn't seem to be illegal.---Texas Gunworks
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Then I guess you were blowing smoke.

If the FFL doen't meet your needs, go somewhere else.---Texas Gunworks
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That's where the thread was when you entered, implied something was illegal.

Why complain?---Texas Gunworks
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Why not, it's a Forum, and the subject is firearms related?

I think they hit a raw nerve and you reacted.


Respectfully,

jdkelly
 
"Quote:
It doesn't seem to be illegal.---Texas Gunworks

Then I guess you were blowing smoke."

Actually, no, there is always that possibility. A non-ffl trasfer to a ffl is a high risk transaction. This is why some ffl refuse to do them. I simply defended the ffl's decision not to participate.


Quote:
If the FFL doen't meet your needs, go somewhere else.---Texas Gunworks

That's where the thread was when you entered, implied something was illegal."

There is always the possibility something is illegal. It is the reality of my business. I'm the one who will go to prison, not you. If it is not a face to face transfer the risk is high. Again, defending the ffl's decision not to participate.


Quote:
Why complain?---Texas Gunworks

Why not, it's a Forum, and the subject is firearms related?

I think they hit a raw nerve and you reacted."

So, you are allowed to complain and I'm not?


Respectfully,

jdkelly"

And by the way it is Tejas Gunwerks, not Gunworks.
 
saddlebum,

I shipped a rifle through the USPS and was required to provide a copy of the FFL when I paid for the shipping. This was their rule not BATF.
 
please show me where in the BATF regs. it say's this?

I dont know exactly where it says.... but you cannot mail guns across the country to private parties... it must go to an FFL holder.... You have to have a copy of the license so you know you are indeed sending to a FFL holder.

that is kind of the point of this post....




OK, now what have you said that is different from what I have said. Bottom line it is your business, you get to make the rules. And good luck in your business.


Exactly. We have the same philosophy... we make the rules. I just try to make mine fair and keep my customers happy and my policies encourage them to return. I dont do this just for the money.

Thank you, and I wish you luck in your business as well. As more of us prosper, the industry grows stronger. And from that comes power and influence... and ultimately we can stop the trampling of our 2A rights.

So I will take all of the customers I can help, and you can be more selective in you customer list.
 
it must go to an FFL holder.... You have to have a copy of the license so you know you are indeed sending to a FFL holder.
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yes it has to go to an ffl holder.

no you don't have to have a copy of his license if you are not an ffl holder. he can give you his ffl number and you can verify it on easy check. a private person does not have to have a copy.

and yes the post office might ask for a copy that is thier rule not batfe
 
I think the problem you’ve run into...

Your dollars isn't worth my 20 years in prison.---Tejas Gunwerks

I am not comenting on matters of law…---Tejas Gunwerks

It doesn't seem to be illegal. ---Tejas Gunwerks

I have already said I do this type of transfer. ---Tejas Gunwerks
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TG,
I haven’t taken a side in this discussion and was only interested in your justification for the conflicting points of view you’ve presented.

I think the problem you’ve run into in this thread is that your logic is very flighty and was presented in an emotional and rude tone.


jdkelly
 
Update and clarification to original post

one thing that hasn't been pointed out is that the ATF itself has put out a bulletin requesting that FFL's do not send or fax copies of their FFL to non-licensees. this is a security measure to ensure that someone isn't running around with a copy of your FFL trying to fool other dealers that they are buying guns under the auspices of your FFL. granted this can happen with a crooked FFL, but generally, that is not seen as a problem since they have their own FFL to begin with.
Click to expand...

This is the reason I was given by the gunsmith I usually do business with. Our discussion was cordial, and there were no hard feelings. I understood why he wanted to be cautious, so I went elsewhere.

I did find a dealer who would accept my transaction. They routinely accept guns on consignment, so they are used to dealing with non-ffl's.

I noticed that they have a 02 (pawn shop) license rather than a 01. Pawn shops accept guns from non-ffls as a regular part of their business.

IMHO, the government has created this situation with over-regulation.:banghead:
 
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