Why do people hate shipping to New York so much?

[daniel craig]

Everytime I try to buy on Armslist I'll get a really motivated seller until I find out I'm in New York. Even if I provide them with a legitimate FFL to ship to it seems like people clam up as soon as I say that. There are people here who like to shoot we're not all cops out to try to get you.


Edit: so it comes down to the inconvenience of the thing. Got it.

Case closed, thanks for the people who humored me with this thread.

 

[cslinger]

There are certain jurisdictions in the U.S. That not only have restrictive laws they also have a fluid way of interpreting those laws and seem to change them at a whim. NY is unfortunately one of those places and to many people it’s just not worth the risk or hassle.
Unfortunately NY like IL is held hostage by the city and it’s draconian/corrupt politics.

Please don’t take this reply as a “Haha sucks to be you. Move to a free state!” Or any garbage like that. I am just trying to give perspective as an outsider from the state.

 

[daniel craig]

There are certain jurisdictions in the U.S. That not only have restrictive laws they also have a fluid way of interpreting those laws and seem to change them at a whim. NY is unfortunately one of those places and to many people it’s just not worth the risk or hassle.
Unfortunately NY like IL is held hostage by the city and it’s draconian/corrupt politics.

Please don’t take this reply as a “Haha sucks to be you. Move to a free state!” Or any garbage like that. I am just trying to give perspective as an outsider from the state.

see but that's the thing... It's not that hard in New York if you ship it to an FFL you as the shipper are absolved of any legal problems. The FFL can't transfer it to the buyer if it's illegal so the shipper either gets their gun back. It's literally that simple, regardless of whatever the rules or laws are per jurisdiction. As a shipper there's literally nothing to be scared of you have no culpability.

I can understand the fear if I was asking you to ship it to me directly but I'm not because you can't.

 

[bearcreek]

Everytime I try to buy on Armslist I'll get a really motivated seller until I find out I'm in New York.

Do they know from the beginning of the conversation that you're not from their state? Might not be NY specifically, just out of staters in general. I won't bother selling a gun to anyone who isn't a resident of my state. More hassle than it's worth.

There are people here who like to shoot we're not all cops out to try to get you.

But sellers have no way of knowing which category you're in and since most gun owners don't know the law as it relates to selling guns, especially in places like NY, it's easier to just not mess with it.

 

[daniel craig]

Do they know from the beginning of the conversation that you're not from their state? Might not be NY specifically, just out of staters in general. I won't bother selling a gun to anyone who isn't a resident of my state. More hassle than it's worth.

But sellers have no way of knowing which category you're in and since most gun owners don't know the law as it relates to selling guns, especially in places like NY, it's easier to just not mess with it.

Your first point is a good one but yes they know I'm out of state most of the times maybe just not New York cuz I asked will you ship and they say yes. Your second point is irrelevant because in my state you have to ship to an FFL anyway which absolves use the shipper of any culpability. Whether I'm a cop or not. It doesn't matter if I know the laws of my area or not because if I'm not allowed to buy it the FFL will tell me no ship it back to you and probably charge me shipping.

 

[cslinger]

see but that's the thing... It's not that hard in New York if you ship it to an FFL you as the shipper are absolved of any legal problems. The FFL can't transfer it to the buyer if it's illegal so the shipper either gets their gun back. It's literally that simple, regardless of whatever the rules or laws are per jurisdiction. As a shipper there's literally nothing to be scared of you have no culpability.

I can understand the fear if I was asking you to ship it to me directly but I'm not because you can't.

Right, but say I ship you a gun or whatever that I am pretty sure is good to go. I send it to your FFL and he determines it has a black finish on it and we can no longer transfer black guns with 6.2 rounds of ammo blah blah etc. Its less about legal culpability and more about the hassle of then having to re-receive the gun back and go through the rigamaroll again.

I know the above is facetious in reply but that really does sum up how a lot of us feel about certain jurisdictions. For example as far as myself personally. I THINK you guys can have 10 round magazines at this stage of the game. I KNOW at some point you were limited to 7 rounds. The fact is I am not shipping you a magazine because its not worth my hassle to figure out what NY has determined to be a fair and equatable magazine limit at this stage. At least California has been 10 rounds from day one and it is what it is. I KNOW I can ship a 10 round magazine to California. NY??? For all I know on Wed during the Solstice it will be 2 shot derringers only.

Again, I don't say this to be a jerk. I simply say it as the perception of an outsider and perception is reality in many cases. I greatly feel for all those who have to deal with this crap and I really hope at some point we get some Supreme court law that at the very least levels the playing field.

 

[daniel craig]

Right, but say I ship you a gun or whatever that I am pretty sure is good to go. I send it to your FFL and he determines it has a black finish on it and we can no longer transfer black guns with 6.2 rounds of ammo blah blah etc. Its less about legal culpability and more about the hassle of then having to re-receive the gun back and go through the rigamaroll again.

I know the above is facetious in reply but that really does sum up how a lot of us feel about certain jurisdictions. For example as far as myself personally. I THINK you guys can have 10 round magazines at this stage of the game. I KNOW at some point you were limited to 7 rounds. The fact is I am not shipping you a magazine because its not worth my hassle to figure out what NY has determined to be a fair and equatable magazine limit at this stage. At least California has been 10 rounds from day one and it is what it is. I KNOW I can ship a 10 round magazine to California. NY??? For all I know on Wed during the Solstice it will be 2 shot derringers only.

Again, I don't say this to be a jerk. I simply say it as the perception of an outsider and perception is reality in many cases. I greatly feel for all those who have to deal with this crap and I really hope at some point we get some Supreme court law that at the very least levels the playing field.

I can see your example of it being a hassle to ship a rifle but a magazine it's literally as hard as putting in a box printing off a UPS sticker and scheduling a pickup. All of which can be done right from your phone. I'm not entirely sure I buy the fact that it's an inconvenience, because having shipped lots of stuff and received shipped guns it's really not that hard. Hardest part I can see use if you don't have a computer to print off your own shipping label. Which at this point who has enough money to buy and sell guns but doesn't have a basic printer?

 

[bearcreek]

Your second point is irrelevant because in my state you have to ship to an FFL anyway which absolves use the shipper of any culpability. Whether I'm a cop or not. It doesn't matter if I know the laws of my area or not because if I'm not allowed to buy it the FFL will tell me no ship it back to you and probably charge me shipping.

It's not irrelevant because like I said, most private sellers don't know the laws and don't want to put the effort into researching them and therefore don't want to bother shipping a firearm to NY or any other state. I wasn't talking about you as the buyer knowing the law. That's irrelevant as far as the seller is concerned.

 

[cslinger]

..... It doesn't matter if I know the laws of my area or not because if I'm not allowed to buy it the FFL will tell me no ship it back to you and probably charge me shipping.

But it does when dealing with a firearm because then I have to go back to my FFL who may or may not be 40 miles away. I have to have my background check run, I have to pay my transfer fees, I have to go back to square one.

Again, not saying that this doesn't SUCK!!!!!. I know it does but that is how lots of folks see this. Its less about legal consequences and more about the PITA of it.

 

[bearcreek]

Which at this point who has enough money to buy and sell guns but doesn't have a basic printer?

Priorities, my friend. I own thousands of dollars worth of guns but no printer.

 

[daniel craig]

It's not irrelevant because like I said, most private sellers don't know the laws and don't want to put the effort into researching them and therefore don't want to bother shipping a firearm to NY or any other state. I wasn't talking about you as the buyer knowing the law. That's irrelevant as far as the seller is concerned.

And I'm saying you don't even need to know the laws. It doesn't matter whether you know the laws or not to ship a gun to New York because you're in contact with the FFL and they know what's coming.

 

[cslinger]

I can see your example of it being a hassle to ship a rifle but a magazine it's literally as hard as putting in a box printing off a UPS sticker and scheduling a pickup. All of which can be done right from your phone. I'm not entirely sure I buy the fact that it's an inconvenience, because having shipped lots of stuff and received shipped guns it's really not that hard. Hardest part I can see use if you don't have a computer to print off your own shipping label. Which at this point who has enough money to buy and sell guns but doesn't have a basic printer?

Can you receive magazines directly? I don't know. I also truly don't know at this point if 10 rounds is ok or 7 rounds or 10 rounds were grandfathered etc. etc. So in this case I would worry about the legality of shipping a product.

 

[daniel craig]

Priorities, my friend. I own thousands of dollars worth of guns but no printer.

LOL in that case I'd say your priorities are perhaps misaligned with what I think are good priorities but hey it's your money you can spend it on whatever you want.

 

[daniel craig]

Can you receive magazines directly? I don't know. I also truly don't know at this point if 10 rounds is ok or 7 rounds or 10 rounds were grandfathered etc. etc. So in this case I would worry about the legality of shipping a product.

Doesn't matter of you know or don't. Ship it to the FFL and let them deal with it.

 

[cslinger]

The point is. It SUCKS!. We all know it SUCKS! We are all gun guys and feel for you. That said perception is reality and the perception is that NY is one of the biggest, craziest Poop shows as far both laws and HOW THE STATE MAY OR MAY NOT INTERPRET THOSE LAWS. That perception is simply gonna mean most of us are out. That said.....that is EXACTLY what the state wants.

 

[Zaydok Allen]

Cuz annoying restrictions and crappy politics we don’t get to talk about here.

 

[bearcreek]

And I'm saying you don't even need to know the laws. It doesn't matter whether you know the laws or not to ship a gun to New York because you're in contact with the FFL and they know what's coming.

But do prospective sellers know that? Maybe, maybe not. In order to know that they don't need to know, as you suggest, the prospective seller would need to know that they don't need to know. And that requires knowledge. Get my drift?

 

[dogtown tom]

see but that's the thing... It's not that hard in New York if you ship it to an FFL you as the shipper are absolved of any legal problems.

Says who?
Some states (like California) will pursue legal action against those who ship firearms, parts or accessories that are prohibited by state law. Simply shipping.
https://sanfrancisco.cbslocal.com/2...lling-large-capacity-magazines-in-california/

The FFL can't transfer it to the buyer if it's illegal so the shipper either gets their gun back. It's literally that simple, regardless of whatever the rules or laws are per jurisdiction. As a shipper there's literally nothing to be scared of you have no culpability.

Provide a citation from New York law that backs that up.

New York is one of the states that allows cities and counties to have their own firearm restrictions. This makes it difficult on a seller to know exactly what laws apply to what jurisdiction. That's a headache I don't need.

You're a New York buyer, I ship a NY prohibited firearm to your dealer. He refuses to transfer to you.........who pays for return shipping? Your dealer isn't and you never showed up at the LGS because your dealer said he could not transfer that gun. So the seller is stuck paying return shipping. If the buyer used a credit card he'll do a chargeback because he never received his purchase.

That answer the question?

 

[cslinger]

Doesn't matter of you know or don't. Ship it to the FFL and let them deal with it.

So as an individual this may be less of a hassle but hassle still. I get your money, I send you 60 bucks worth of 10 shot mags. I go about my normal gun guy business and spend your 60 bucks in a flash because.....well I needs more mags for my new gun right. Several days later I get the message of....ummm yeah about those mags......we are going to have to send them back to you. Now you are going to want your money back. I, being a normal honest person, am going to want to give you your money back. End of story is I am out 60 bucks.

 

[bearcreek]

LOL in that case I'd say your priorities are perhaps misaligned with what I think are good priorities but hey it's your money you can spend it on whatever you want.

Maybe. I have yet to hear of a scenario in which someone needed a printer in a hurry to preserve life or liberty. But, to each their own, as you say.

 

[cslinger]

We are not hassling you specifically just trying to put a little perspective as to why we don't want to do business with NY residents in general.

 

[cslinger]

Maybe. I have yet to hear of a scenario in which someone needed a printer in a hurry to preserve life or liberty. But, to each their own, as you say.

You've never heard of April 15th have you.

 

[cslinger]

Cuz annoying restrictions and crappy politics we don’t get to talk about here.

Even though these laws are politically driven, I do think this a is a valuable thread to provide some insight to folks who are under certain restrictions as to why some of us or business may not want to do business with them. This thread isn't, so far devolving into politician X is horrible, vote them out or whatever, it is mostly tracking the reality and perception of buying and selling in these regions.

 

[daniel craig]

So as an individual this may be less of a hassle but hassle still. I get your money, I send you 60 bucks worth of 10 shot mags. I go about my normal gun guy business and spend your 60 bucks in a flash because.....well I needs more mags for my new gun right. Several days later I get the message of....ummm yeah about those mags......we are going to have to send them back to you. Now you are going to want your money back. I, being a normal honest person, am going to want to give you your money back. End of story is I am out 60 bucks.

which I get but you can easily say sure I'll ship to New York but all sales are final that way it's on the buyer to know if you can actually buy them or not you don't have to give them their money back if they can't

 

[daniel craig]

We are not hassling you specifically just trying to put a little perspective as to why we don't want to do business with NY residents in general.

I know, and I appreciate it.