Why do people think a pump / lever / revolver is better than an Autoloader?

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Another side to this argument is that there's a lot of gun owners who still believe that semis are somehow evil and that pump/lever/wheel guns are somehow more American. Following that logic, the blued steel and walnut guns that they own, the bolts, pumps, levers and revolvers are superior to the evil semis; you know, the terrorist guns.

The actual argument might have nothing to do with functionality but they will use exaggerated claims and outright myths about functionality to justify their feelings that semiautos are inferior in terms of reliability.
 
Mr. White -

I hadn't considered perceptions of good vs bad guns in the eyes of the shooter - that's a good point.

I think what I'm hearing most is that personal preference is the reason some (or many) prefer revolvers / pumps / lever guns over autos. Although that may not be very empirically verifiable, that doesn't make it any less valid.

I also think Wheeler44's point that the gun someone shoots the most is probably the best gun to bring to a fight is a pretty good one, as is the point that many people are looking for a hardware solution to a software problem.

I'm still pretty young and forming my own opinions on guns, so I can see how my willingness to go either way and determine what I think is best from the beginning might make a big difference from someone who grew up shooting a particular type of gun. To that person, there might be a BIG difference between my view of a revolver and theirs, and reasonably so.

I hope noone felt that I was attacking their preference - I firmly believe in "to each, his own." Like they say - you pays your nickel and you takes your chances.

Thanks again for everyone's input.
 
The actual argument might have nothing to do with functionality but they will use exaggerated claims and outright myths about functionality to justify their feelings that semiautos are inferior in terms of reliability.
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They're not so much myths as they are old experiences.

Newer semi's are better. I'll let you shoot one of my old ones to prove it.:) Some people tried 'em 25 years ago, didn't like what they found, and quit trying. Can't blame 'em, but their opinions are a bit obsolete.
 
I carry a 1911. I own several semi-auto rifles AND pistols. However,

Having shot thousands of rounds through Model 97, Model 12, and Remington 870s since I was a small child, I have never once in my life short stroked a pump gun. I have broken extractors, after thousands of cheap S&B birdshot in antique guns, I have had shallow strikes on ammo of unknown origin, but never failed to feed. The odds that you will break something in the bolt group of an AR, or have a magazine problem in ANY autoloader, are much higher.

I'm not practiced enough with a lever gun to go against an auto for speed, but I know some old cowboys who are. And I absolutely can shoot a pump as fast as I can accurately shoot a carbine, with a much higher volume of fire from 00 or #4 buck.

How dirty are you letting your revolvers get? Are you cleaning them once after each war? It takes very little neglect to make an auto jam. Revolvers might run forever with no cleaning.

The purpose of the 7615P is to give police rifle range and penetrating power from the same manual of arms as the shotgun they are already used to. I took one look at it, and thought it was an ok idea, but unfortunately no better than the 760 carbines in .257 Roberts and .308 my dad has been shooting for over 40 years. Fir tactical or HD use, really no reason to use it instead of an AR. But I can absolutely fire it accurately just as fast as I can fire a semi-auto AR. (With the same 30 rd magazine.)

You don't have any semi-auto anything that is 100% reliable.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone can manage the cleansings and rituals associated with an autopistol. For the novice, for those who have little or no interest in recreational shooting, but who are willing to carry a firearm for personal defense, the revolver is a much better choice. Nieces and daughers and a wives. Oh my!
 
It would be quite a compromise if I had an auto that jammed all the time and compared it to a revolver, but if I had an auto pistol that was 100% reliable to my satisfaction, I'll take the fast reloads, high capacity, semi auto speed to a 100% reliable revolver any day.
 
2) There's no way that a lever gun will beat a semi-auto rifle for rate of fire in either bursts or sustained fire. Further, add a reload and you are miles behind the power curve.
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That's why you get a levergun with a detachable magazine. :D
 
All of you who use those new-fangled cartridge bearing guns are crazy.
The true cognoscenti use a flintlock. How can you be sure there's even powder and stuff in every one of them little brass doohickeys?
 
You reference Jeff Cooper. Jeff also is a proponent of REAL rifles over semi-autos such as the AR platform.

His belief is that the lever action .30-30 is one of the finest intermediate range carbines for law enforcement application and his choice of a 16" barreled bolt-action .308 for all around use - defense and hunting - has been copied by many.
 
I think that a person that doesn't get their guns out much and just have one around for personnel protection then a revolver is probably the best. Double action. Like it has been mentioned, they are pretty much fail proof as you can get.

I like the old lever guns and wheel guns. I can send them pretty fast with my lever guns till I catch my trigger finger. That hurts. That takes practice and I don't know of anybody that is practiced enough to be good that hasn't mashed a finger.
 
Another thing to keep in mind is that not everyone can manage the cleansings and rituals associated with an autopistol. For the novice, for those who have little or no interest in recreational shooting, but who are willing to carry a firearm for personal defense, the revolver is a much better choice. Nieces and daughers and a wives. Oh my!
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^The above is a good example of the narrow-minded claptrap that is quite common amongst revolver advocates.

Being a handgun instructor myself, I just happen to know two instructors who are female, and they both get mad as hell when they come across people who think like you.

At my large private range, handgun courses are conducted on a regular basis. A substantial number of people are first-time shooters, both male and female. I've found that most of "them there helpless little wimin" do JUST FINE with a semi-auto after a few hours of quality instruction.

Semi-autos might be a little bit too intellectually demanding for the "six fer sure, revolvers only" crowd to operate, but the average female shooter (including newbies) who comes in with no preconceived notions in regard to handgun type, generally do JUST FINE with a semi-auto.
 
I'd be interested in seeing what kind of autoloading pistols you can find chambered for cartridges beyond the .45acp/10mm/.357 Mag class. How reliable are they?
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Desert Eagle .44 mag & .50
.44 Automag
A few others but those sprung to mind first.

For what it's worth, dance with the one that brung ya!
Great Grandpa always said that, guess it means practice with what you got because the man with one gun just might know how to use it.
Just a thought.
 
doc2rn said:
Desert Eagle .44 mag & .50
.44 Automag
A few others but those sprung to mind first.
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Yep, those and the Wildey. Unfortunately, I've never heard of one that had much of a reputation for reliability and I know that none of them come cheap (compared to what it costs for a wheelgun of comparable power).
 
his choice of a 16" barreled bolt-action .308 for all around use - defense and hunting - has been copied by many.
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Who?

(Well, okay, if Jeff Cooper said that the only rifle to have is a 6.5x50mm pump-action painted in pink and green checkerboard, with the scope mounted under the barrel with a 50-round pan magazine, somebody would insist on it, but...)
 
Posted by ArmedBear:
One might phrase the question the other direction. "Why do people think an autoloader is really better than a pump/lever/revolver/double?" Watch and decide.
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Oh yeah, right. An experienced cowboy shooter using very light TARGET loads in a highly controlled setting is SO convincing. NOT! :rolleyes:

Speaking of Cowboy shoots, here's a revolver misfire at one:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Xl92P_mVDM

"Revolvers NEVER misfire! Six fer sure!" :barf:
 
Newer semi's are better. I'll let you shoot one of my old ones to prove it. Some people tried 'em 25 years ago, didn't like what they found, and quit trying. Can't blame 'em, but their opinions are a bit obsolete.
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Interesting. I hadn't considered that but it makes a lot of sense. I was away from shooting for around 30 years - in my former life I was all revolvers due mostly to a finicky Gold Cup.

Now, my "serious" handgun is a semi and revolvers are for fun. And, fun as they are, buying used DA Colts and pre-lock S&Ws will give one a harsh and immediate lesson in the myriad ways revolvers can screw up - and when they do it, they do it with gusto. Typically taken smooth out of action.

I read over and over how people see semis constantly seizing up while their revolvers run in conditions mine would run from - never occured to me it was simply a matter of when the things were produced or opinions formed but it's certainly plausible.

It's been a mystery to me how anyone could peer into the abyss that's the innards of a Python and then state that revolvers are "simpler" with a straight face. Perhaps simpler in operation - much like a 2008 Cadillac is simpler to drive than a mountain bike so long as one doesn't open the thing up.
 
An experienced cowboy shooter using very light TARGET loads in a highly controlled setting is SO convincing. NOT!
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I didn't say it's convincing. Do you shoot steel plates for time, though? That's highly controlled, too.

My point is that autoloaders will shoot faster, but that people who think of revolvers as essentially single-shots with extra ammo, just don't know how to shoot them. I've tried shooting steel plates with a DA .44 Magnum and, to my surprise actually, I'd have no problem using it defensively.
 
While I would prefer a semi-auto pistol for a defense situation, I feel a revolver offers much greater versatility for learning to shoot well, hunting, and for a general purpose pistol.

There are several revolvers on the market which allow you to use multiple calibers in them--yes, you can do this with an auto pistol too by changing out the barrel, but I'm talking about shooting different calibers without changing parts.

You can shoot 10mm and .40 S&W in a 10mm revolver, .357 Mag and .38 Spcl. in a .357, .44 Mag and .44 Spcl. in a .44 Mag, .22 S,L, and LR in a .22 LR...the list goes on. This offers downloaded versions of the hard-hitting calibers for practice, as they recoil less and are often cheaper. Downloaded versions in an S/A pistol require the case length be the same, and still will not usually cycle the action.

Wheelguns are easier to learn to shoot and clean. They also tend to have stronger actions and allow for the use of bullets which may be more easily deformed when crammed into a magazine; i.e. those with lots of exposed lead.

I don't believe that revolvers are inherently more accurate. Most well-made autos and revolvers are close enough to each other in performance not to matter, however they do eliminate the possibility of the "first shot flyer" which results from hand-cycling the action of the autoloader.

Some cartridges, especially rimmed ones like the .22 LR, work much better in revolvers. A 9-shot .22 LR revolver is probably even faster to load than snapping cartridges into a 10 round S/A magazine.

The autoloader does have the advantage of a much faster reload and greater magazine capacity.

I think everyone should learn how to shoot (and if possible, own) both types of pistols.
 
One reason that Law Enforcement started going to semis instead of revolvers goes back to the Dade County FBI debacle. Revolvers are great when all your limbs are present and functional, but disable just one hand and they're at a huge disadvantage to semis. Everyone who's done any combat training at all with a semi has done one-handed reloads, malfunction clearing, etc. Same for a pump shotgun. You can work it with one hand, but try reloading. The Remington 7615 loses out because of the difficulty of making it work one handed vs. a semi auto rifle.

If your requirements are such that you need to know how to clear, reload, and stay in the fight even when injured, semis give you a better chance than revolvers, pumps or lever actions. If not, then use whatever you're comfortable with, but I find it quite telling to examine the primary weapons of those who must go in harm's way. Even the police are moving away from pump shotguns, although at a glacial pace. The military uses pump shotguns, but mainly as a special purpose weapon. Revolvers and lever actions are nowhere to be seen. 'Nuff said.
 
Posted by sacp81170a:
One reason that Law Enforcement started going to semis instead of revolvers goes back to the Dade County FBI debacle.
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Quoted for TRUTH!

In a firefight lasting several minutes, only ONE of the four FBI agents carrying service revolvers was able to reload his weapon.

Not long after the the facts of the Miami FBI shootout became known to law enforcement agencies around the country, thousands of LEA's across the nation began phasing out revolvers as primary duty weapons.
 
Here is my 2 cents. And basically I mean that. I like any gun that shoots a large variety of ammo. What I mean is a .357 revolver can utilize a large variety of .357 and .38 ammo. For economy, when shooting at a range I usually use .38 simi wad cutters with a real low load. These cost about $4.00/box of 50 around me from gun shows. When shooting hundreds and hundreds of rounds, that adds up. Any simi auto hand gun requires almost a full factory round to make the slide come back or time must be spent stripping and inserting a weak recoil spring. I've got numerous simi autos and most have jammed at one time or another and some jam all the time. Might be the cheap ammo though. Even my Ruger 10/22 has a habit of jamming when using a 25 or 50 round mag. My lever action 30-30 usually jams when not using completely rounded slugs. Maybe it's because I'm cheap but I'll stick to any gun where the variety of ammo is extensive. A very weak wad cutter .38 can do just as much to a home invader as anything else.
 
A revolver is easier to use and store loaded safely for many people. There is less to have to think about, which is important for amny people. No safeties, Glock triggers, cocked and locked, chamber empty/loaded. Just pick up and pull the trigger.
 
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