Why does the Sig P6/225 have a lanyard hammer?

[bigcozy]

On top of why, why is it open at the bottom? I noticed the other day that CDNN had State Dept. Ruger SP101s with lanyard hammers. Does anybody put lanyards on their hammers anymore? Wasn't this started to cock single actions?

Just wondered, going to buy a P6 anyway, just don't like the way the hammer looks.

 

[lechiffre]

so that it will bend if it hits the ground

 

[takhtakaal]

The hammer isn't an issue, unless you're hung up on the little slice taken out of it. I'm told that it was done by armorers to keep cops honest:

This magazine has the virtue of allowing a slim grip on the P225. The grip on the P225 is in my view superb, because it is big enough that a large-handed person can use it but slim enough that a small-handed person can use it too.

The P225 has not been made in many variations over the years, primarily because the main buyers have been the police. Target shooters rarely show any interest in the P225, although in countries where it is legal to do so, it has sold to people who are interested in carrying a gun for self-defence. The main variants of the P225 are the one shown here, and the much rarer version with the heel-of-the-butt magazine release. It has also been made with various sight and finish options. The most common finish encountered is the one shown here, but it has also been made with nickel and K-Kote finishes. A version with a different hammer was also made for the German police. The hammer has a cutout under the spur so that if the gun is dropped repeatedly on the hammer, the spur will bend and the mechanism can be checked to see if it has broken. I'm not quite sure what this says about German police training!

http://www.cybershooters.org/dgca/sig-sauer_p225.htm

lechiffre: quel chiffre?

 

[bigcozy]

Always amazes me how I have studied everything about guns for over twenty years and I learn something new all the time.

That is an odd, odd reason to make the hammer that way.

 

[highorder]

FWIW, I saw a P6 at AIM Surplus the other day that had the little portion of the hammer broken off. I don't know about bending from a drop; it looks like they would break off at almost any impact.

 

[AK103K]

......and the much rarer version with the heel-of-the-butt magazine release.

I've seen two P6's at Gander Mountain so far with the heel release, one looked brand new. Wish now that I'd bought it. I dont know just how "rare" they are, but they are around.

 

[9mmepiphany]

Does anybody put lanyards on their hammers anymore?

i didn't know they ever attached lanyards to hammers.

pistols i've had with lanyards have usually had them mounted on their butts...so that if the user dropped their pistol, they wouldn't lose it

 

[lvcat2004]

I agree...lanyard on a hammer seems like an odd thing to do. I've heard also that the cutout is to identify those guns that have been dropped.

However, this also seems like an odd idea to me, since how often would a dropped gun hit the ground right at the hammer, as opposed to other 98% of the surface are of the gun??

I bet I can drop a gun a few dozen times until I hit it right on the hammer and bend that piece of metal....

 

[atblis]

....I bet I can drop a gun a few dozen times until I hit it right on the hammer and bend that piece of metal....

First off, we're talking about the Germans here...
Second off, we're talking about Cops here...

Supposing there is something in the mechanism that is fragile, It only takes one occurrence for somebody to have a bad day.

 

[9mmepiphany]

...and they aren't concerned about it being dropped anywhere else

 

[86thecat]

A department would only need one incident where an officer said "it just went off by itself, that drop must have ruined the sear engagement" to require that hammer.

 

[highorder]

However, this also seems like an odd idea to me, since how often would a dropped gun hit the ground right at the hammer, as opposed to other 98% of the surface are of the gun??

That's just it; a drop on the other 98% of the gun won't do any damage. The armorers need only worry about damage to the fire control parts.

 

[ugaarguy]

I noticed the other day that CDNN had State Dept. Ruger SP101s with lanyard hammers. Does anybody put lanyards on their hammers anymore? Wasn't this started to cock single actions?

Those State Dept. SP-101s are DAO. Per a Marine I spoke with who was an embassy guard that little bit of hammer spur is there simply to allow retention in a thumb break holster.

As for the P6 hammer I've heard damage indicator, place to hang the hammer as traveled through finishing / heat treating processes, and that they were made like older stamped SIG slides, i.e. hammering the hammer spur around a mandrel to create the finished shape prior to heat treatment. They all seem plausible.

 

[highorder]

As for the P6 hammer I've heard damage indicator

I have not seen it, but I understand the German literature exists that speaks directly to this design point. I recall reading of it in the Sig forum.

 

[Kor]

Yet another theory I've heard before was that Bundespolizei armory pistol racks used to have a thin steel cable that was used to double-secure their P6's through the slotted hammer-hole.

 

[rcmodel]

Other possible reasons for the hook:

* Teutonic Talisman to ward off evil?
* Raw Material Cost Reduction? (to get the low bid and beat out H-K)
* Original design ring-hammers all cracked there during heat-treating?
* CNC Programming Error?
* Hanger Hook for very small, but highly over-engineered German gun racks?
* Opens German Beer Bottles somehow?
* Cleaning Fingernails before daily Uniform Inspection?
* Can be easily straightened to produce "Hammer-Bite" like a 1911.

But, I'm just guessing.


But it does indicate in the Owners Manual, near as I can interpret it, that it is to indicate a gun that has been dropped on the hammer.

It is called in German the "Deformationssporn" or Fallsicherheit.
Translated = Deformation spur, or fail-safe.

rcmodel

 

[highorder]

huh. I didn't get an owners manual.

 

[R1100R]

The notch in the hammer is for a zip
tie type seal that goes from behind the trigger along both sides of the frame and through the hammer. Not all German police carried guns and this was how they were stored. Some had emergency lockers at the station. They were open when needed. If a seal was broken then they knew wepaon had been handled. Most of the early
police dept in the 70's and 80's did not carry. Mainly patrolman only.

 

[rcmodel]

Then why is it called the "Deformationssporn" or "Fallsicherheit" in the German owners manual?

I'm sure you are correct that it may have been used for some sort of seal, but that clearly was not the original design intent.

Notice they didn't call it a "sealenholdenslotten", or whatever the German word would be.

rcmodel

 

[highorder]

The notch in the hammer is for a zip
tie type seal that goes from behind the trigger along both sides of the frame and through the hammer. Not all German police carried guns and this was how they were stored. Some had emergency lockers at the station. They were open when needed. If a seal was broken then they knew wepaon had been handled. Most of the early
police dept in the 70's and 80's did not carry. Mainly patrolman only.

please cite a source for that. Of the many plausible suggestions for the hammer cut (aside from the documented purpose of drop detection) yours is anecdotal and new.

incidentally,

Deformationssporn = Deformation spur

Fallsicherheit = Drop security

 

[AZ_Rebel]

Lanyard on a hammer? Uhhhh... I don't think so. OP - Where did this theory come from?

 

[rcmodel]

Nope!

Nobody ever used a lanyard on a hammer to cock anything, not even a Colt SAA!

That was the last GI issue pistol that had to be thumb cocked. Everything since has been a semi-auto or DA revolver.

Lanyards have always been used to retrieve dropped guns, and parade dress duty, nothing more, nothing less.

Having one attached to a hammer would be an accident looking for a place to happen!

rcmodel

 

[R1100R]

As far as proof on the zip tie. Go to You Tube. Type in P6 Hammer.
a video will start.
As far as personal experience my Ex-Father In-Law was Chief of
the Kriminal Amt for Northern Bavaria. I have seen it in stations. In
lock boxes in emergency vehicles.etc,etc.


The tie is made up of small plastic balls like a dog tag chain. It you pull the trigger the tie breaks easily. The ones in the
vehicles were stored loaded and were signed for at each shift. This was thirty years ago.

 

[Sunray]

Like 9mmepiphany says, lanyards don't, ever, go on the hammer. They go onto the lanyard ring on the frame.
Lanyards had two purposes. The first being so a cavalry troopie could just drop the pistol and not lose it while he used his primary weapon, his sword. The second, so officers, usually junior officers, wouldn't lose their pistol.
The 'Commander' style hammer(not the original use of it to be sure) came about to prevent the shooters hand from being bitten under recoil. It's got nothing to do with 'zips' or the German Police.

 

[R1100R]

Got a friend to send me via e-mail a copy of the P6 manual in German.
It seem the hole/hook has two purposes. The best I can translate
para 7.7 it has to do with dropping the pistol. It was made to give relief
to the firing pin if the hammer hits it hard from a drop. It states that if it is
deformed it should be turned into a work station.
I know they use safety ties also. My German is rusty. When trying
to translate, a English keyboard is missing some of the German punctuation
keys. You could try Babelfish to translate if you have the proper keyboard.