Why doesn't the gun world have anything like Kickstarter, GoFundMe, Indiegogo, etc?

[KarateHottie93]

I've been thinking a lot lately about that HMG STG that never came out. That got me thinking about all the guns like the STG that literally everyone alive wants a civilian copy of, but just can't have.

We need some kind of fundraising for these things. Such a platform would probably prevent a few terrible releases, and help propel some good ones.

There's other possibilities too. For all we know, there could be an insane number of people that really want Glaser Safety Slugs for their Tokarevs, and someone might be willing to make it with enough financial backing.

What about when that forum banned together to get all those SVD rifles imported for Tim from MAC? Imagine how much easier stuff like that would be if there was a place specifically designed for such things.

Of course the biggest issue is manufacturing. Firearms are held to a higher quality of standards than pretty much anything. Obviously there's some exceptions out there like medical equipment, anything to do with aviation, or anything to do with diving...but yeah. I'm pretty sure you know where I'm going with this. People want their guns to operate absolutely flawlessly (and that's entirely fair to expect given their purposes, and the risks involved). It's hard to get these things right on the first try though and people are impatient...especially when their money is involved.

Still, with all of that said, why don't we have fundraising for the gun world? As a guy with one functional arm who loves both bullpup shotguns and revolvers, I really wanted a SIX12. If I can't have that I at least want a place to dump my money on nothing but an idea, and a dream...a dream of a place where all gun innovations can be funded together, in harmony.

 

[Bill Raby]

Don't have it because the people that want it are waiting for someone else to do it.

 

[KarateHottie93]

Don't have it because the people that want it are waiting for someone else to do it.

That's a good point. I'm gonna learn how to build a website tonight.

 

[Steel Horse Rider]

In a capitalist society of the demand is there the need will be filed. The risk to reward ratio must be good enough to guarantee an adequate market for the investment. The things you mention are all low volume niche things that will not have a sustainable market in my opinion.

 

[Pat Riot]

I am still trying to figure out what “HMG STG” means…

 

[Carl N. Brown]

Hill & Mac Gunworks STurmGewehr

Rifles and pistols based on the STG44

 

[DeepSouth]

Because it’d be filled with stuff like this, one of my all time favorite threads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-bullet-hypercav.484529/

 

[KY DAN]

Because we have an ar15, if the stg or what ever it is was not such a piece of crap it would be alive and well today. Look up luger man who make reproductions of luger pistols ,his price is around $7000 dollars last time I checked..... NUTS while the latest and greatest kimber 1911 is around $700-1500.

Just because you have crowd funding does not make your idea great, think essential oils. Once you sell to your mom,dad,brother,sister, aunts,uncles,cousin, niece, nephew you don't have anyone else to sell to because people don't want to buy this junk.

Just accept the past is where these things need to stay

 

[Tirod]

The current market is already skewed by customers who refuse to buy a particular gun because it isn't considered trustworthy, reliable, or most importantly, traditional.

Inviting them to pay double for a beta version that still needs testing and delivery a year out won't entice them much. A lot of indie projects are current tech with subcomponents readily available - watches, electronics, etc. There are no tactical R51 frames in .45ACP, they have to be machined from the ground up, and one little finesse could make or break them. And it did - Remington offered a beta, not a tested and proven product with 55k rounds at least thru a final sample.

Add $55,000 for the ammo and a trigger puller to do it. All the start up costs have to be included in the original offering, where in a watch, it's basically buying parts and assembly. Much more like offering 10,000 custom AR's - nobody is having to design and test a new works, just off the shelf parts.

That is why there aren't too many startup projects for new untested proprietary products. It takes a deep pockets sponsor. What happens to the startups which offer 1,000 of a new product but who only receive 287 payments? At the end of the day, the maker pays everybody back, and nothing happens. They are out all the startup costs and are bust owing that money. They don't get to keep the 287 payments and lawyers get involved when some do. Getting stuck for all the start up costs when you were absolutely sure it was a whiz bang idea? Just like any other business, 50% fail in the first 5 years. 90% fail in ten years.

SHOT Show has a lot of products offered which don't sell enough to break even. The legendary Bren Ten was one, kinda a CZ frame with plain slide in 10mm. Hot item, lots of talk, no production. The Masada? A new Pmag AR15? The idea that it had to be made by a firearms manufacturer took a little gloss off of it, then the price smacked people in the face, it wasn't even close to $800 which is where AR's were at the time, it was over $1,800. And very few parts were interchangeable, all proprietary to that one design. I do know they have made some - but tens of thousands? I doubt it. I also doubt costs have been covered on it yet.

Products under a few hundred dollars aren't difficult - I could see someone going to MecGar and saying make me 10,000 SW 4506 magazines, as they are for all intents and purposes 1911 mags with a different location for the mag release. That might work as a startup project. However, getting 10,000 SW 4506 pistols - ??

If I win the lottery I might. Beats gambling or drugs or women, at least I could say I tried.

 

[daniel craig]

One word. Demand.


If the demand is there it’ll get made and sold. That’s basic capitalism.



that said I imagine licensing for some gun things difficult to start and sustain.

 

[Madcap_Magician]

Because making and selling firearms is more practically and legally complicated than making anything that is funded on the crowdfunding sites. Most of those places are having things done by third-party OEM companies overseas. Lot more complicated to do that with firearms. Plus most of the 'new' firearms ideas don't stick and the ones that do tend to be from established manufacturers.

 

[earlthegoat2]

Things like this remind me of when Hollywood tries to remake beloved movies.

They take the original good idea and put a modern spin on it using modern contexts and themes….and it is utter garbage.

Also modern vehicles with beloved names like Charger, Blazer, and Mustang. Nope not modern versions of some cool old design, completely ground up design with very little resembling the old model.

I would contribute to crowdfunding if I truly believed in an idea. Since I have a long sad history with actual good new ideas in the gun industry, I would be hesitant to contribute anything. Prove me wrong and I will rethink things.

Similarly but opposite, restomod cars are wildly popular. Old look and modern feel. So the idea is not universally bad. Of course the bones of a restomod is an actual old vehicle…

 

[CapnMac]

that literally everyone alive wants a civilian copy of, but just can't have.

We need some kind of fundraising for these things. Such a platform would probably prevent a few terrible releases, and help propel some good ones.

There's a considerable gap between "stated demand" and "actual purchase."
This is very much seen in the construction and design biz.
And very much due to the disconnect between "price required" and "price imagined."

HMG, despite "being in the biz" vastly underestimated their own costs to create a product. And while there was vast expressed interest, the realized cash just was not there. So, they went from having a product that they thought they could market for $3500-4000 was going to be closer to $9K or $10K. And that's decided ice water on demand. (Ohio makes an exquisite copy of the BAR--but, at $10K each, they don't exactly sell like hotcakes.)

The product also winds up being neither fish nor fowl. It's neither "real" nor "fake" but is very expensive. (And not helped by those wanting things like a version in 7.62x39 rather than hard-to-get 8x33.)

And, a person need not listen to me--there are plenty of extremely qualified people out there who share this opinion.

 

[Double Naught Spy]

Why doesn't the gun world have anything like Kickstarter, GoFundMe, Indiegogo, etc?

DeepSouth alluded to part of the reason below, as have others, crackpot ideas. With that said, we aren't very good at taking care of ourselves Remember when we needed a payment option when PayPal turned anti and somebody came up with GunPal that turned out to be a ripoff? https://www.thehighroad.org/index.p...-gp-auctions-–-affiliate-auction-site.421017/

Because it’d be filled with stuff like this, one of my all time favorite threads.

https://www.thehighroad.org/index.php?threads/new-bullet-hypercav.484529/

Ah yes, the bullets with the tiny magic holes that were going to change everything!