Why don't more guns have decockers?

[Red Cent]

I have used and carried a 1911 45acp for over 40 years. I carry cocked and locked. It stays that way. If, for some reason I want to empty the pistol, say in the house, I drop the mag, rack the slide, and drop the hammer.

A decocker on a 1911. Something about a boar hog comes to mind.

In USPSA or IDPA, you will be asked to do this after every stage.

 

[we are not amused]

the same could be said of lowering the hammer by pulling the trigger and lowering it with your thumb

Actually, it was said, several times.:banghead:

I prefer the method of lowering the hammer with my thumb, even if using a de-cocker. Of course the gun is pointed in a safe direction when I do so, that goes without saying. Hopefully, those who use the de-cocker are also pointing the gun in a safe direction.

Hopefully, anyone "playing" with a gun, is always keeping it pointed in a safe direction.

I don't trust de-cockers, and have only limited faith in safeties. Never had a safety fail on me yet, except for the thumb safety on a 1911, which is why I don't put unlimited faith in them.

Yes it was physical damage on the 1911, from a previous owner, since fixed, but I just don't trust safety devices on almost anything. If they fail, but you are keeping the gun pointed in a safe direction, no harm, if they fail and you have the gun pointed in a unsafe direction, disaster.

Before some idiot accuses me of not using safeties because I don't trust them, nothing could be further from the truth, I use them, I just don't trust them, or depend on them to keep me safe.

 

[holdencm9]

Let not forget
what stops the decocker, many of the designs have a brute force type hammer block or a rotating safety that blocks the FP when decocking

gist is, enough hits and the hammer block is likely to fail,

Likely twice as many hits as shots you'll ever put through the gun.

I don't mind decockers, I have a Beretta 92 that I am not at all worried about the decocker failing (not that I point it at people while decocking anyway), I also don't mind SAO condition 1, glock "safe action" etc. They are all different but it is just personal preference and what you intend to do with it. As I understand it one of the biggest knocks against it is for IDPA you have to start with safety on, and first shot without cocking, so with a Beretta has to be DA, so people have to learn 2 trigger pulls essentially. With 1911's condition 1 or Glocks/XD's it is only one trigger to learn. Is that the case? I can see why some people and the military like the DA/SA w/ decocker. I can also see why people dislike them for competition.

 

[1911Tuner]

If the day ever comes that I no longer have the manual dexterity to safely lower a hammer, I'll sell the guns and take up needlepoint.

 

[EddieNFL]

Couple of months ago I was SOing a club match. One of the shooters in my squad was using a Beretta 92 and experienced several malfunctions. Each time he would tap, rack he unintentionally engaged the safety. Wreaked havoc on his scores. Would have been much uglier in a gunfight.

 

[PT92]

I have used the decocker on my PT-92 and P95 for years now absent any issues--However, with the one caveat being that I still use my thumb on the hammer to be sure as Murphy's Law always has a way of occurring somewhere/sometime.

-Happy Holidays

 

[saturno_v]

To the OP

Most of the reasons are costs..DA/SA pistols with decocker are expensive to produce.....you will find some people trying to justify how a striker fired pistol with no external hammer can be better in some situations...again, main reason is cost (one of the most appealing feature of Glock to the bean counters of Law Enforecement agencies).

Personally, even when I decock I still use my thumb and forefinger to hold the hammer and lower it down in a controlled way and of course I keep the gun pointed in a safe direction....there is not such thing as being too cautious when handling firearms...

 

[1SOW]

Does a revolver have a "decocker"? Why not?
A decocker is not needed for safety.
A decocker adds needless hardware (and trigger pull) to the pistol's action.
For the person who shoots one box of ammo per/year to test the gun, a decocker might "slightly" improve safety. Said person is likely to be dangerous, with or without a decocker.

 

[Zerodefect]

Why would I ever decock my 1911? LOLz.

My Ruger P95 had a terrible 1st trigger pull, it was like I had to say a prayer as I was pulling the trigger, and believe me there is time with the Rugers slow heavy trigger pull, just to make sure my 1st shot actually hit the target.

I know cops like 50 pound trigger pulls, but sheesh. I switched to Glocks and 1911's as soon as I out grew the 9mm Ruger P95, and noticed a huge decrease in my 1st shot out of the holster time.

 

[GLOOB]

You want MORE? Seems like every modern DA/SA handgun made, today, has one. I think someone mentioned some model CZ not having one. So I guess there's at least one.

Can anyone else think of another modern DA/SA semiauto that doesn't have a decocker??

Personally, even when I decock I still use my thumb and forefinger to hold the hammer.

STILL use? I would never decock a gun manually this way. Even if it has a commando hole or is skeletonized with cutouts, the hammer is still a relatively flat-sided object. Pinching it between thumb and forefinger relies primarily on friction to hold the hammer back. A little sweat, oil, or grease could give you a really bad day.

I'm comfortable decocking just about any gun, manually, on the range. But in my home or other area where a gunshot is unacceptable, I only do it if the gun has a trigger activated firing pin safety. It adds a lot of extra insurance in case your thumb slips. The way I do it is to make sure the muzzle is pointed in a safe direction. Then make sure the hammer is positively blocked with the tip of my thumb or the base of my offhand index finger physically wedged between the hammer and slide when I pull the trigger and then IMMEDIATELY RELEASE IT. If my thumb slips, then I just get pinched. Then I get my finger out of the trigger guard before unblocking the hammer and letting it down the rest of the way. If my thumb slips, now, then hopefully the FP safety is in good working order.

I have actually removed the decocker on a couple of my guns. But it wasn't because I don't trust them.

On my FNX, the levers were in the way of my grip. I completely removed the levers and now decock it manually. It has a positive trigger activated firing pin safety. The other is one of my CCW's, a polish P64. It has a horrible DA trigger pull, and the only firing pin block is the manual safety. From what I can see, hammer down, safety off is the LEAST drop safe way to carry it. A blow to the back of the hammer can defeat the trigger activated "half cock" notch, sending a round upwards. This is what appears to have happened from two separate user reported AD's with this frearm. In both cases, the gun was dropped and sent a round skyward. One through the guy's arm. The other just put a hole in a fella's ceiling, about a foot away from his head. So rather than carry it with the manual safety on AND a 25 lb trigger pull, I modified it so I can carry it cocked and locked. Of course, I completely understand the inner workings and safety features, otherwise I woulda left it alone. The manual safety on this gun stays on all the time unless its being fired.

 

[makarovnik]

Love my P95DC. No safety to worry about.

 

[Dogguy]

I used to shoot 1911s. Didn't need no stinkin' decocker. But one night about 25 years ago, I dropped the hammer on a 1911 without meaning to and...well, I've changed my mind since then.

I own several brands of DA/SA autos that have decockers. Many of them have safety/decockers which I do not particularly care for. Many drop the hammer instead of lowering it gently--I don't like that too much. Many have the decockers on the slide, another feature I don't particularly care for. I like placement and hammer-lowering mechanism on SIGs. The decockers on the CZs also seem pretty well placed. Then there's the Glocks....

 

[Jbabbler]

As an aside, my SW99c is a striker fired sub compact with a decocker. I like the feature and find that it really allows the gun designers to give you a superior, light trigger pull when needed and a long, heavy pull for holstering. I like what they did with that and would like to see more striker fired guns with that option.

 

[Fishbed77]

Most of the reasons are costs..DA/SA pistols with decocker are expensive to produce.....you will find some people trying to justify how a striker fired pistol with no external hammer can be better in some situations...again, main reason is cost (one of the most appealing feature of Glock to the bean counters of Law Enforecement agencies).

As an aside, my SW99c is a striker fired sub compact with a decocker. I like the feature and find that it really allows the gun designers to give you a superior, light trigger pull when needed and a long, heavy pull for holstering. I like what they did with that and would like to see more striker fired guns with that option.

I was about to mention the same thing about my Walther P99AS (SW99 was a liscensed copy of the Walther P99). The P99/SW99 gives you the option of the long (Anti-Stress) first SA pull or to decock to DA. Like you, I like the option to fully decock to DA for carry. There is no manual safety to worry about in an emergency situation, and it cetainly feels safer than somthing like a Glock.

It's a superb system that gives you what I feel is the best trigger pull of any striker-fired pistol out there. You also get all the benefits of a hammer (double-strike capability, visual indication that the gun is cocked, and ability to easily recock) with none of the downsides (hammer bite, snags, a large moving mass that can interfere with accuracy on a very lightweight pistol).

It's truly a unique (and very easy to use) system that I'm surprised no one else tried to copy. It doesn't really differ in operation from any other DA/SA system, so training isn't an issue.

 

[thunder173]

If the day ever comes that I no longer have the manual dexterity to safely lower a hammer, I'll sell the guns and take up needlepoint.

Amen,....and,...ahem,....AMEN!!!

 

[brickeyee]

A lot of us find cocked and locked for a 1911 just fine.

 

[mljdeckard]

They are a convenience. Certainly not a necessity.

 

[GreyCoupe]

I think a safety and a decocker are redundant. I have handguns with and without dockers, and I prefer to decock on a live round with a slow, controlled action that will not result in an AD if I slip. A sweaty thumb and a trigger release decock leave the firing pin in play. The gun is no longer cocked but ready to fire with one in the chamber, because the guns I have with decockers [Walthers, SIGs], I know they are safe to carry loaded.

If the SHTF, I have one round ready via double action, and a magazine full of single action rounds ready to go. This is one action less than a 1911 requires [moving safety from safe to fire].

In the end, I think both decision points and safety are enhanced by carrying only what you are familiar with.

 

[EddieNFL]

I used to shoot 1911s. Didn't need no stinkin' decocker. But one night about 25 years ago, I dropped the hammer on a 1911 without meaning to and...well, I've changed my mind since then.

I stand corrected...some folks need them.

 

[EddieNFL]

This is one action less than a 1911 requires [moving safety from safe to fire].

Distance traveled by the 1911 safety and trigger combined are a good bit less than the trigger travel on every DA I've ever fired. Also, for trained shooters, the safety has no bearing on the speed of the first shot.

 

[Ar180shooter]

Decockers only have use on DA/SA firearms. How many DA/SA pistols can you name that do not have a decocker of some sort?

 

[easyg]

Why don't more guns have decockers?

Because there are plenty of shooters who don't like them.


I don't like DA/SA pistols.
I prefer a SA pistol with a manual safety or a Glock style pistol with no manual safety.

I prefer a consistant trigger pull.
I want the trigger to have the same pull weight and the same amount of travel from the very first round to the very last round.

The last thing I want is a 13 lb. long pull followed immediately by a 4 lb. short pull.

 

[ecureed]

please correct me if i'm wrong, but i've never worried a bit when decocking my CZ P-01 because i've always understood that the firing pin safety prevents the gun from being fired if the trigger is not pulled. well you don't pull the trigger to decock the gun so where is the danger? besides that, the P-01 doesn't decock fully, only to a half-cock notch so i've considered that as a second added safety measure.

my 75b on the other hand that must be decocked manually, now that will heighten the senses!

 

[balance 740]

I don't understand the comments about how decockers are dangerous. The only way they are dangerous is if one or more parts inside the pistol happen to be broken or fail at the same time. Parts don't only break on DA/SA pistols.

If the sear on a 70-series 1911 fails while the hammer is cocked, what happens to the round in the chamber?

I would have no problem relying on the sear of a 70-series 1911 to keep the hammer cocked, for the same reason that I would have no problem relying on a decocker to decock the hammer or striker on a DA/SA pistol. Is there any modern pistol designed (and by modern I mean designed within the past three decades lets say), with a decocker that has a reputation for failing?

Some DA/SA pistols can't be decocked by hand. Should these pistols be considered unsafe?

I understand if you have a different opinion, but out of curiousity, I'd like to know how you got there. I honestly don't remember hearing of any modern pistol design suffering from a broken decocking mechanism that caused a discharge. I have heard of broken firing pins sticking through a breechface though, and I have heard of worn sears in SA pistols.

In my opinion, it is not an issue worth worrying about.

As for the original question, in my opinion, the only pistols that need decockers, are DA/SA pistols designed to be carried with a DA first shot. DA/SA pistols seem to be losing popularity these days, so you will probably see less and less pistols coming out with decockers because you will see less and less DA/SA pistols.

 

[sedona]

I don't mind the decockers on my rugers and sigs.When i first got my P95dc i would hold the hammer when i decocked,then i called ruger and was told not to do that.Haven't worried about it since.