Why FMJ?

[ExAgoradzo]

It's seems counter intuitive to me given the reasons for choosing the 1911 platform that our government would decide on FMJ ammo. Is it MERELY b/c of Geneva Convention kind of stuff, or did JMBrowning think his design necessitated the ball ammo? I know of a lot of guys that use JHP and they sell it by the bazillion at CTDirt...
As the new owner of this magnificent platform, I just gotta know!

 

[Tommygunn]

I think it was actually one of the Hague Conventions that decreed the use of ball ammo (FMJ) and I'm not sure we're signatories to it or not.
Back then there was no where near the amount of hollowpoint ammo we take for granted. It would have been called "dum-dum" ammo if it had been around.
Pistol ammo was cast lead. The early cap & ball revolvers used that (you can't feed FMJ ammo into them anyway).
Then along comes modern gunpowder with higher pressures and faster velocities and in order to allow the rifling to engage the bullet it had to be made deeper. But, this tore the bullet up, so then along comes a jacket -- usually copper.
That is likely why John M. Browning came up with FMJ ammo in the 1911 -- and why it was used in many other calibers, especially rifle calibers.
.38SP doesn't require it but that was originally a blackpowder round, and a lot of other older calibers that came down from the blackpowder days can also use plain lead bullets.
I think Browning was just trying to keep it modern.
There was not really a lot of thought given to "dum-dum" bullets for handguns at the time, as I recall. I could be wrong.....but that's my 2¢.

 

[xXxplosive]

I for one use Ball ammo for the simple reason.....it works....Always....in my Series 70 Combat Commander. That being said, haven't heard of any complaints of using that round if the hit is a good one......IMO, Penetration is #1.
HP's are OK I guess but accuracy is crucial.

 

[rcmodel]

or did JMBrowning think his design necessitated the ball ammo?

John Browning had no idea JHP ammo would be invented in the early 1970's by Super-Vel.
He died in 1926.

Prior to about 1970, almost all revolver bullets were lead RN or SWC, and almost all pistol bullets were FMJ-RN, or FMJ-SWC target loads.

rc

 

[NG VI]

Yep. They didn't exist for some time after the invention of that pistol and many others.

And Geneva got nothing to do with it. Also, our government uses FMJ because it's what we do, what we've got contracts for, what's accepted by the governments of our allies.

The push for better terminal performance out of service ammunition than we were seeing is a pretty recent phenomenon, newer than our adoption of the 9mm for sure.

 

[Drail]

It is because of the military needing to use rounds in semi auto AND full auto weapons. For a sub machine gun you do not want or need hollow points. When you dumping 500 rounds per minute on a target who needs hollow points? And for inventory to have to deal with a cartridge in FMJ and hollow point versions just complicates an already overloaded system. And I believe that while the U.S. agreed to abide by the Hague Accord we did not actually sign that document. But that only applies to use in warfare against other countries armies fighting under a flag. For terrorists this does not apply. That is why you read news reports of the incredible long shots being made on "enemy combatants" with 50 BMG rifles. Technically we are not at war with any other country. The 50 BMG is designated as an "anti materiel round" and would be considered inhumane to use on human targets in a declared war. Screw the rules. In war there are no rules.

 

[ExAgoradzo]

Wow! I just got a lesson on another thread on FMJ vs JHP! And, I didn't think about when JHP came out historically. It seems like I was asking a question many have asked: it seems the point is #1 reliable feeding and #2 effectiveness.
Thanks for your input!