Really makes the case for not using a high swept beavertail on a target pistol, or lopping off the back edge of it so you can get to the hammer.
Why Hold the Trigger of a 1911 to the Rear When Chambering a Round
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Coltdriver
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I never heard of this ability prior to this post.
I just went to my safe, grabbed my 1911, unloaded it and gave this a try. Absolutely works, apparently, fine.
Don't think I will ever do this with a loaded weapon. But it is interesting that its possible and may save on prematurely wearing the trigger mechanism.
I just went to my safe, grabbed my 1911, unloaded it and gave this a try. Absolutely works, apparently, fine.
Don't think I will ever do this with a loaded weapon. But it is interesting that its possible and may save on prematurely wearing the trigger mechanism.
Just to be clear, the only way you are going to get any premature wear because of this is if your pistol actually falls to half cock. It isn't about slowing wear but preventing a harmful impact that a normal 1911 should never fall victim to.
SwampWolf
Member
I can't think of any good reason to contradict/violate this basic safety rule.
While I'm sure that isn't going to happen, this type of trigger system has been used on very, very few other pistols. It was effectively abandoned when they stopped making Tokarevs - the biggest departure from the 1911 design that anyone designed with a sliding trigger.
Pivoting triggers are used for every other kind of target or combat pistol.
X-Rap
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I ment that on a personal note. I was once enamored with the mystique and nostalgia of the 1911 but every drawn out thread just pushes them further to the back of the safe.
I have a half dozen of them but they get shot very little anymore and I haven't carried one in years.
I have a half dozen of them but they get shot very little anymore and I haven't carried one in years.
Sam1911
Moderator Emeritus
No manipulation or "pinning" of the trigger, or the hammer, is necessary or desirable when shooting a 1911. The subset of shooters who've tuned their guns to the point where these sorts of wear are measurable concerns is some small fraction of 1%. This is a practice which has been abandoned, to deal with a concern which is non-existent.
No need to go looking for ways it could work or modifications you could do to enable it. The 1911 design works just fine and is plenty durable as it is, without any babying or hacking of parts.
Insert mag, rack slide, engage safety. Disengage safety, shoot. Reload, close slide, shoot some more. Remove magazine, rack slide to empty chamber, pull trigger/hammer down, holster. That's pretty much the whole manual of arms. Don't complicate it.
I wasn't talking about standard 1911s. If your bullseye 1911 has a 2 lbs trigger, this kind of "babying" is probably necessary because of the expensive "hacking" the expert gunsmith did to get it that way
"this kind of "babying" is probably necessary because of the expensive "hacking" the expert gunsmith did to get it that way"
I'm curious - how many instances of damage have you witnessed? I ran a Bullseye league for years after this became verboten, and never witnessed, or heard of, any problems. I've run many thousands of rounds through my Jim Clark tuned Colt w/o any issues. So I'm curious about the data behind your 'probably necessary'.
(BTW, a 1911 has to have a 3.5 lb trigger to be legal for bullseye.)
I'm curious - how many instances of damage have you witnessed? I ran a Bullseye league for years after this became verboten, and never witnessed, or heard of, any problems. I've run many thousands of rounds through my Jim Clark tuned Colt w/o any issues. So I'm curious about the data behind your 'probably necessary'.
(BTW, a 1911 has to have a 3.5 lb trigger to be legal for bullseye.)
Zero. I had not idea what the problem was until other people on the thread explained it to me. It sounds like some people run triggers that are too light not to bounce into half cock, and I can see why it would be undesirable to wedge such a finely stoned sear into the half cock notch. That's all I was expressing.
It sounds like you either disagree that this could happen or disagree that if it happened it would affect the trigger work.
"It sounds like you either disagree that this could happen or disagree that if it happened it would affect the trigger work."
My interest in 1911's is in scoring well with them, not their internals. But I have been around quite a few tuned 1911's, and haven't heard of any problems from keeping your finger off the trigger when dropping the slide. My sense is that either it's an old wife's tale, or it only applied to some very old trigger jobs. My match 1911 was old when I bought it, for example. I was the third long term owner (there are local shooters who can give you the genealogy of most of the guns on the line), and I bought it 20 years ago
, so I think you'd need a very old, or poorly done, trigger to have problems.
My advice would be to drop the slide with abandon, and if your trigger goes south, get it repaired to modern standards.
While we're discussing 1911 kinks: I know lots of people who drop their hammers on an empty chamber (prior to storage, for example) by holding back the hammer, pulling the trigger, and carefully lowering the hammer. But Kimber's manual explicitly says to not do that; just pull the trigger and let the hammer drop. My amateur sense is that people sometimes worry about things that don't matter much.
My interest in 1911's is in scoring well with them, not their internals. But I have been around quite a few tuned 1911's, and haven't heard of any problems from keeping your finger off the trigger when dropping the slide. My sense is that either it's an old wife's tale, or it only applied to some very old trigger jobs. My match 1911 was old when I bought it, for example. I was the third long term owner (there are local shooters who can give you the genealogy of most of the guns on the line), and I bought it 20 years ago
, so I think you'd need a very old, or poorly done, trigger to have problems.My advice would be to drop the slide with abandon, and if your trigger goes south, get it repaired to modern standards.
While we're discussing 1911 kinks: I know lots of people who drop their hammers on an empty chamber (prior to storage, for example) by holding back the hammer, pulling the trigger, and carefully lowering the hammer. But Kimber's manual explicitly says to not do that; just pull the trigger and let the hammer drop. My amateur sense is that people sometimes worry about things that don't matter much.
I don't do it either, and have never heard it recommended. No reason to.
What one should not do is drop the slide on an empty chamber. That is rough on the sear/hammer engagement from hammer bounce due to the slide slamming to a stop with no resistance from chambering a round.
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It sounds like the a lot of this might relate back to the heavy Gold Cup triggers - which also cause holster issues."It sounds like you either disagree that this could happen or disagree that if it happened it would affect the trigger work."
My interest in 1911's is in scoring well with them, not their internals. But I have been around quite a few tuned 1911's, and haven't heard of any problems from keeping your finger off the trigger when dropping the slide. My sense is that either it's an old wife's tale, or it only applied to some very old trigger jobs. My match 1911 was old when I bought it, for example. I was the third long term owner (there are local shooters who can give you the genealogy of most of the guns on the line), and I bought it 20 years ago
My advice would be to drop the slide with abandon, and if your trigger goes south, get it repaired to modern standards.
While we're discussing 1911 kinks: I know lots of people who drop their hammers on an empty chamber (prior to storage, for example) by holding back the hammer, pulling the trigger, and carefully lowering the hammer. But Kimber's manual explicitly says to not do that; just pull the trigger and let the hammer drop. My amateur sense is that people sometimes worry about things that don't matter much.
I don't understand the Kimber thing. It sounds like they don't want people to decock a hammer in the normal way. What harm could that cause?
sarduy
Member
Don't do it.
Only put your finger on the trigger when you are ready to shoot, not when loading, reloading or racking the slide of a weapon.
The mechanism will not disconnect the sear from the hammer when the slide is racked because you're NOT holding the trigger back like you do when you fire the gun. When the slide returns forward and you let the trigger return forward only then the disconnector pops up in the cut in the slide rail and reconnects the trigger to the sear. When firing your finger is still holding the trigger to the rear the entire time the slide cycles - no one is fast enough to get off of the trigger before the slide moves when the gun is actually fired. Holding the trigger to the rear when racking the slide is precisely how the gun operates when firing it. The danger is if someone gets the sequence out of order - if the hammer is cocked with the slide in battery and the trigger pressed the hammer will fall. The trick of holding the trigger back when racking ONLY works if the hammer is DOWN (or the slide is locked back) when you start the process. If it is then there is no danger....... The hammer will only fall if it is cocked and being held by the sear and the sear is connected to the trigger and the trigger is pulled and releases the sear with the slide in battery.
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The disconnector moves below the sear when the slide is retracted whether the hammer is held back or not.
gc70
Member
What part of the statement is incorrect?
Once the slide is full back the disconnector pops back up in front of the breechface. But it doesn't change the point I was making.
I agree with you.
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