Why I no longer carry .380

[Skylerbone]

Shot placement, shot placement. Shot placement. https://www.alloutdoor.com/2018/09/...ent=2018-09-18&utm_campaign=Weekly+Newsletter

Better still, avoidance, less lethal deterrent, cardio to get away, and a phone to call police. Silly slogans aside, I’d much rather a professional make the call on the situation than handle it myself. It’s lousy passing the buck like that but they are (usually) trained far better than the average private citizen, to include dealing with thousands of such incidents between unholstering a pistol.

In 45,000+ calls (my city’s record) responded to, my father drew less than a dozen times, and fired only twice. Other record held: number of people pepper sprayed (and number of fellow officers pepper sprayed). And never killed a one of ‘em with either.

 

[Godsgunman]

Shot placement, shot placement. Shot placement.
I agree shot placement is the most important but the ability to make it to vital organs is a close number 2. One can put a 22 in the same hole but will it hit anything important? Same with 25 acp, 32, 380. This is why I do testing, to get an idea and carry what I see as giving me the best of both penetration and ease of shot placement.
I find it funny how we as shooters tend to have 2 different mind sets when it comes to hunting vs self defense. Hunting the vast majority say you need the biggest caliber you can shoot comfortably and accurately for the most 'humane' kill. It seems many tend to go the opposite way when it comes to self defense. Why is that? Or am I mistaken? Obviously the goal is to avoid ever having to use a gun in self defense and escaping the situation if at all possible. Drawing your gun and shooting should always be last resort. God forbid we ever find ourselves in that dire situation but don't we want the most powerful cartridge we can shoot accurately at our disposal?

P. S. I realize our goal in self defense is not to kill or want to but it may come to that to stop the threat.

 

[Skylerbone]

don't we want the most powerful cartridge we can shoot accurately at our disposal?

The one you bring is the one that matters. I can accurately shoot a .50 cal Traditions black powder accurately and it is at my disposal as are a number of ARs but they are not practical. So for practical carry, and for some that is pocket (as noted above) which means small and light. If you need more penetration than is offered by what you tested, try a smaller, faster fmj.

Lots of people humanely take down deer with a .22 mag to the head while others wound them with a 12ga. slug. That’s pencil eraser vs. nickel size holes. See previous argument on shot placement. That’s of course training on shooting, which again is but one skill and the least likely and least desirable outcome.

I’m not saying don’t defend yourself, I’m saying have a better plan than explaining to a jury that you’ve been training for years on silhouette targets and not once thought of a less lethal means of defense. Some might see that as practicing only offense.

 

[Godsgunman]

Lots of people humanely take down deer with a .22 mag to the head

Yes because the vast majority of hunters are Chris Kyle

 

[Skylerbone]

No, because most deer hunters are within 50 yards of their prey. My 12 year old took a 35 yard neck/heart shot Sunday after 1 practice session with a new rifle. In the 5 years since her father left her only range time has been with me, twice with misc. rifles and a dozen or so weekends of practice with a pellet rifle. It’s a matter of correct practice.

 

[Gun Master]

Of course I would prefer a 10mm (or .45 ACP, .357 Magnum, .44 Magnum, etc.) as in the case of a liquor store owner/operator.
Handy to keep under the counter (ergo heavy to carry), and a heck of a lot of power, but I wouldn't want to tote one all day or even in short intervals.
In my case, let's consider size, weight, expense, and overall likelihood of my carrying a certain gun, as opposed to power, penetration, and potential damage to the offender.

I have had many years of contemplation under my belt (so to speak) regarding this subject..........

I'm no expert.
This is merely my 2 cents. (Well, maybe $20 by present standards).
Really like .45 ACP and .357 Magnum.
I have a S&W Model 10 by my bedside, and a 12 gauge pump in the corner.

My usual carry weapons are S&W 638 .38 Special 2" and/or Kel Tec .32 ACP.
The 638 loaded is 5 rds. and 17.5 oz.
Kel Tec loaded is 9 oz., has optional belt carry clip and optional 10 rds. magazine.

It's usually Kel Tec or bust !

 

[Godsgunman]

Skyler,
we aren't in disagreement about practice. Congrats to your 12 yr old on the deer, that's awesome. Some would say you could kill a charging rhino with a 22 if shot at such and such an angle directly in the middle of the eye while you hold your tongue towards NNE. Bravo to those who are skilled (or crazy) enough to do so. I will be taking something powerful enough to go through bone, heart, lung, and exit bone on the other side because I know if I forgot to hold my tongue just right I'll be getting a rhino horn through my aorta.
When I am confronted with a guy wanting to harm me or my family I want to carry something I know has the power to do what I need it to do. With 9mm coming in the exact same size guns as the 380 plus for me the same shootability, the 380 is obsolete giving zero upside in my personal opinion. Plus more expensive to shoot.
Again, when it comes to handguns there is no magic bullet. Carry what you can shoot well and reliably and accomplishes what you want it to. For me the 380 does not make my cut. If it was the only caliber my wife or mom could handle accurately I would encourage them to go for it. As has been said any gun is far better than no gun.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

No, because most deer hunters are within 50 yards of their prey. My 12 year old took a 35 yard neck/heart shot Sunday after 1 practice session with a new rifle. In the 5 years since her father left her only range time has been with me, twice with misc. rifles and a dozen or so weekends of practice with a pellet rifle. It’s a matter of correct practice.

Way to go Skylerbone. I love the Air Rifles for practice and fun and even hunting for small game. Especially the "Springers". And I have taken down deer with a wimpy 20ga. Oh no, did I just open up another caliber WAR???

 

[Skylerbone]

I want to carry something I know has the power to do what I need it to do.

And yet we agree there is no magic bullet, BUT I think we also agree there are better and worse bullets for each caliber in a limited sense (restricted to some extent by caliber chosen).

Not every time will more penetration be desirable or useful and not every round fired will likely strike its intended target. A few years back I watched a video by Larry Vickers in utter disbelief as he fired his AR into drywall mocked up as a house. There were stud walls, dry walled both sides, spaced ~12’ apart to simulate interior walls and even siding on the final “wall”.

With 5.56 1 hole became 3 or 4 fragments after 3 1/2” (width of 2 x 4) and failed to exit the second wall. 9mm HP went through all 4 or 5 walls and siding never to be seen again. Could be your dining room, kids room. Maybe you don’t have neighbors who’s house the bullet enters. No different on a street corner where you are liable for every round fired.

Hunting wise, heck I hear there’s a show where hillbillies shoot 900 lb alligators with .22 lr! Don’t know if they’re special forces trained.

My final thought on the matter is .380 will or won’t be enough and since there is no magic bullet we can only hope we have planned accordingly and that our aim is true if needed.

 

[Jeb Stuart]

380, 9MM,40, 50 cal. Shot placement and quick to the draw matter. I doubt any Pistol or revolver is much good if the bad guy gets you first. If he is able to incapacitate you right away, with any caliber, he wins. In most cases, he has the edge in a attack. If you think just because you carry a big bore handgun, you have the advantage you are wrong. You natural senses, avoidance, awareness, etc. probably are more powerful than anything you carry. I doubt the Wise Old Buck never thought much about which caliber would take him down or sat around having caliber wars with other bucks.
A modern 380. round is very effective at close range, a 308. at long range.
If a attacker pops up from behind your car at a parking lot with a 380. in his hand, I would not write it off as a win for yourself.

 

[ugaarguy]

Two .380 threads in a week, and both have quickly shifted into statistics and other material that belongs in our Strategies, Tactics, and Training section. Now this one has drifted into reality TV and shooting gators in the head .22 LR. What were we talking about again? Let's give the poor .380 ACP topic some time off to recover the beating it's taken here in HGD.