Jeb Stuart
member
Starting to see a lot of interest of the Keltec P32 coming back. I see the Sept-Oct issue of Handguns Magazine has this on Front Cover. And a 6oz CCW Pistol is most interesting.
Why I no longer carry .380
- Thread starter Godsgunman
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Godsgunman
Member
Cheygriz,
I agree, but I have also seen bad guys brought in shot by LEOs who had to be restrained on our trauma bed and even died later from their wounds once the adrenaline runs out. The human body is an amazing thing and can produce super human abilities in times of stress. Unfortunately gel, wet pack, different media can only give us a small picture of what may or may not happen. Real life is much different.
That's why I test, form my own opinion and try to use what I see the best combination of shootability and power are for me. Prepare for the worst, pray for the best.
I agree, but I have also seen bad guys brought in shot by LEOs who had to be restrained on our trauma bed and even died later from their wounds once the adrenaline runs out. The human body is an amazing thing and can produce super human abilities in times of stress. Unfortunately gel, wet pack, different media can only give us a small picture of what may or may not happen. Real life is much different.
That's why I test, form my own opinion and try to use what I see the best combination of shootability and power are for me. Prepare for the worst, pray for the best.
dogtown tom
Member
So.....
I placed my Ruger LCP .380 atop my Glock 43 9mm......overall there is not much size difference between the two.
Then I placed my G43 atop my Glock 26.........overall there is not much size difference between the two.
Then I placed my G26 atop my Glock 19.........overall there is not much size difference between the two.
Then I placed my G19 atop my Glock 17.........overall there is not much size difference between the two.
Then I placed my G17 atop my Glock 34.........overall there is not much size difference between the two.
Then I placed my G34 atop my Glock 17L......then I remember that I wanted the smallest, lightest and pretty darn reliable pistol that is pretty inexpensive...….to carry in my pocket.
The problem with this is at any given time in an urban and suburban area there are people who are upset enough to physically attack someone (road rage would be a classic example) or who have a criminal intent who are around you.
Short of moving away from other people and living in a remote location (which then brings its own challenges) you can't really eliminate this.
Again, in an urban or suburban area there will always be these people about. It's just a matter of how much they hope to gain (money, street cred, bragging rights, attempting to dissuade you from talking to a certain girl or attempting to drive you out of a certain area [territorial dispute]) by attacking you and whether that's worth the consequences (prison, potential injury suffered in the attack or loss of face if they lose).
Honestly all it takes to attack someone is decent conditioning and a pair of fists and feet. Or a pot metal knife bought at a gas station. They don't necessarily have to gear up with a carload of guns, ammo, body armor and spare mags.
Depending on the situation you could honestly just be in the wrong place at the wrong time. You could be the wrong ethnicity in a certain neighborhood, you could have answered the question of a girl who has a jealous boyfriend sitting nearby, you could be driving a nice car and be dressed decently and appear to have money/jewelry/nice watch and a wallet full of cash and credit cards. There are a multitude of reasons that some people attack other people.
It doesn't even have to be a valid reason to you. Violent offenders do not think like normal people. They attack others for very little reason.
This is not like in the Stone Age where the members of two different tribes bumped into each other in the forest and both immediately assumed an aggressive stance until they were reasonably sure that the other wasn't going to start chucking rocks and spears or come at them with an adze.
It's also not like a violent person is going to be walking toward you waving a flag and yelling that they are going to attack you and attempt to rob you.
In society people let other people approach them. In order for society to work people let strangers walk by them. You interact with strangers every day. There has to be a certain amount of trust for civilization to function. Criminals are good at using this to their advantage. Most people are too busy playing candy crush on their phone to pay attention to their surroundings.
Having said that there are indications that others are up to no good.
Some people simply don't know what to look for to anticipate an attack. Here are some examples of some 'Pre-Assault Indicators'.
25 Pre-Assault Cues
Circling
Balled up fists, aggressive language, stance, foot placement, eye contact ('Mad dogging')
Lets skip to the last video I posted. The victim exited the store and was immediately 'in it' and was confronted by the enraged man looking for a fight. I'm going to guess that he hadn't heard the enraged man ranting and threatening others before leaving the store. Otherwise I imagine that he would have either stayed in the store or would have gone out the other way.
Once he left the store though and was immediately confronted by the man the second, third and fourth things that he could have done would have been to ..
.
• 1) Not engage with the guy at all and either go back into the store while also 2) readying himself for an attack and getting better foot placement, getting ready to go hands on/use of grappling and boxing skills, 3) getting some distance from the guy to gain some reaction time, 4) ready the pepper spray (if he has any) or perhaps get ready to draw (depending on his grappling and boxing skills, age, health status etc)
Or
• Attempt to put himself in a better position to defend himself from and go around him while stating that 'I don't want any problems' and ready yourself for an attack mentally while going for your vehicle at a steady pace and non-verbally suggesting that he might be biting off more than he can chew.
Just saying ... attacks aren't always preceded by flags, horns and big flashing lights. There are usually indications (looks to accomplices and glancing around for exits, police and people who might aid you, movement towards you, a change in stance or conversation, physical indications of anger or getting ready to attack), but you have to be paying attention to that stuff.
If you carry a gun there's also at least one gun on the scene. If you fail in getting some distance from an 'unarmed' attacker ('unarmed' is a word that the media throws around a lot) or perhaps getting something between you (vehicle, table, display, gas pumps etc) and he gains the upper hand in an altercation YOUR gun can quickly become THE gun and it could be used against you.
Usually, yes. Most often once there's gunshots everyone scatters, that also usually includes the attacker(s).
However much of this stuff takes place at contact/bad breath & body odor distance and in that case they might believe that their best chance of not getting shot (if you missed) or shot again is to disarm you and/or to continue stabbing, shooting or beating your head flat.
That's generally the reason why retention training is important to anyone who has decided to carry a pistol. Training with South Narc comes to mind, but some escrima and jujitsu classes have it incorporated into their program.
To some degree, yes. No one wants to be shot with anything and until rounds are actually fired caliber and load don't play a part in that.
I have personally seen some offenders back off merely because the pistol displayed or shoved in their face was large, but maybe mentioning that was a saving face gesture on their part on why they backed off.
I get that not everyone is willing to put up with dressing around the pistol or the slight discomfort of IWB or appendix carry. I carried around full size pistols (BHP's, Beretta 92FS and CZ-75 Compact) around until roughly 3-4 years ago and even I got sick of it.
There's a whole crop of 9's and .40's and even some .45's that are roughly the same size as some of these .380's. However if the largest pistol that some can conceal well and that they'll actually carry regularly is a .380 then so be it. At least they've taken responsibility for their own safety and they're trying to do something about it.
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denton
Member
Only The Almighty gets perfect information. The rest of us have to put up with approximations. Imperfect information is much better than none.
Agreed! Hoards of 'em around here,,, Completely oblivious to anything beyond what's in their hand,,,
HAHAHAHAHA. Every time I read about caliber or magic bullets I am reminded of a friend who manages a liquor store in a BAD part of town. Guy comes in shooting at everyone he sees. My friend had a 10mm loaded with JHP's. He put EIGHT rounds in his chest and he was still on his feet. He ended it with 3 rounds to the head.
The autopsy showed he had enough heroin in him to kill 4 average people.
There AINT no one stoppers.
The autopsy showed he had enough heroin in him to kill 4 average people.
There AINT no one stoppers.
jar
Contributing Member
The data in this thread is why I stopped carrying .380 and went to 9mm Kurz.
Jeb Stuart
member
doubleh
Member
The 45 Colt always kills with one shot, DRT, without even taking close aim. In the old westerns, anyway.
The 45 Colt always kills with one shot, DRT, without even taking close aim. In the old westerns, anyway.
But only for the guys in black hats. White hats work better than body armor, no one can even hit a person wearing one (not to be construed as actual advise).
Yeah, on that I'm pretty sure that the camera guy was in on it and with the offender simply because he didn't turn on him.
Probably filmed for street cred to show to his homies. I'm surprised they didn't shout 'World Star'.
jmorris
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The correct word from a prosecutor standpoint is complicit.
The simple fact that the perpetrator seems obvious to the camera guy shows that they are known to one another.
Pretty obvious they are not engaged in preventing the crime and are rather involved with the illegal activity.
The idiots that do this kind of thing seemed shocked that they get prison time when “they didn’t do anything”. The good news for them is that “life” means some number of years of free cable tv and food - time off for good behavior.
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ArchAngelCD
Member.
jar
Contributing Member
I kinda like the 9x18 PM as well. In fact when I was taking restock inventory I found I have more of the 9x18 PM on-hand than any other caliber.That's not for me, I much prefer the 9mm Corto and if not the 9mm Browning.
I think the point of that story is that you cannot rely on anything to stop someone short of disconnecting the central nervous system at a point above the highest location on the perp's body that can cause harm to you. It doesn't matter if you are shooting a 10mm or a .380. Marksmanship (or luck) outweighs caliber, but only if the bullet is capable of causing the disconnection.
George P
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Find yourself a Seecamp .32; better built and even smaller
ArchAngelCD
Member.
Although the Seecamp is an outstanding pistol it is very expensive and heavy too. I have had my P-32 in excess of 9 years and it's still tight and reliable. It has been more than I expected.
doubleh
Member
I forgot about the white hat thing. Even if a white hat got shot which very rarely happened they healed up in a matter of hours.
jar
Contributing Member
William Lawrence Boyd, the man who played Hopalong Cassidy, died. . . It was the hat. . .
(or, more likely, the reality that he took the Hopalong role in 1935 may have been a contributor to his demise; but I will blame the hat)
Somehow I feel that were are diverging from the thread topic of 9x17. In that regard I am still in the "carry what you want; but don't degenerate others for carrying what they want" camp.
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Failure to stop with large caliber (10mm) pistol would have not turned out better if friend had been using a 380.
Good example of why carry a larger caliber pistol, some attackers may be hard to stop.
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