why judge the caliber

[scottbird]

I have a little test I am trying.

In every forum, or gun club meeting I have been to the same topic comes up. every time someone talks about or buys a new gun, there is always people there to put down the caliber of the persons choice. Now I know there are calibers for each type of game, but who are we really to judge what some one else uses, and is comfortable with.

I myself do not like any type of semi-auto guns, that does not mean I will put them down, just a mere fact that I do not want them. If I say get rid of them, than I am no better than the anti-gunners.

I love the 25-06, I own a small Interarms Mark X 25-06 and would not trade it for anything. I have noticed in the forums, and the club meetings people telling me to get rid of it, it is no good for anything. I am comfortable with it, and better yet I have shot it enough, I know what it will and will not do.

So I ask again, why and who are to judge someone's choice in caliber?

 

[Skribs]

Personally, I will never own a 25-06. It's absolutely horrib-just kidding.

It really depends on what you're talking about. Some things work for some applications, but are nowhere near optimal. Others are much better for that situation. The thing in particular I'm thinking of that most people look at is the .22 for self defense - yes, it will work as a deterrent, and yes, it has stopped people in the past. But that doesn't necessarily mean it's the best option.

 

[Owen Sparks]

Once the bullet leaves the barrel caliber is all that matters. If it is not big or fast enough to do the job the gun it came from makes no difference.

 

[timhernandez]

Some people have nothing nice to say about anything.

If you enjoy it, that is all that matters.

If you try to convince me it is the best/only/etc. round for doing 'XXX', I might disagree.

 

[threoh8]

It's called conversation.

Sure, a lot of people get carried away, exaggerating the importance of this factor or minimizing that. Some people feel the need to get personal about things, and some need to demonstrate their encyclopedic knowledge, photographic memory of ballistics tables, or strongly held opinions. Filter out the extremes, and enjoy the ride.
After all, why mention your caliber in the first place? Whose business is it (except for the range master, game warden, or match official, that is.)? Having put money into a cartridge is a statement of approval. Expect other differing statements.

Another factor in online discussions is that a lot of people who agree with you don't feel the need to post a "me, too". It's those who differ who will write the most.

I won't say anything bad about your .25-'06 if you'll leave my 6.5-.257 Roberts alone.

 

[Sam1911]

I really don't know what to say to that. It isn't an experience I've dealt with much.

Now some enthusiasts really do love (and have -- it seems -- nothing better to do than) to argue external ballistic trivia all day. They may be looking for another caliber/cartridge debate to pass the waning hours of their lives away. That could be taken (and could be presented) as "putting down" someone's favorite cartridge. So what? Just pat them on the head and offer to have an attendant come by to shift their wheelchair into the sunny spot.

Seriously, life's too short to get emotionally tied up in "LOVE" or "HATE" for any particular cartridge. Choose one, learn its ballistics by heart, learn to estimate range and wind well, and go shoot!

Only hits count, and a hit is a hit, pretty much, whether it was from a high-velocity .25 or a big old .35 Remington, or anything else.

Caliber wars are a complete waste of time, don't give someone who plays that game the time of day. Walk on by ... the nurse will be along with the Jello soon.

 

[Skribs]

Sam, it's not only external ballistics. The majority of the caliber wars I've gotten into have been regarding terminal ballistics.

Only hits count, and a hit is a hit, pretty much, whether it was from a high-velocity .25 or a big old .35 Remington, or anything else.

Only hits count, but I'd argue that some hits count more than others, and your choice of caliber can affect the number of hits and how they count in various ways.

 

[12131]

That's just the way the world works. It's not limited to just caliber. It's how humans behave. They exist to agree, and differ, to praise, and criticize.

 

[mdauben]

I love the 25-06, I own a small Interarms Mark X 25-06 and would not trade it for anything. I have noticed in the forums, and the club meetings people telling me to get rid of it, it is no good for anything.

Now, personally, I think the .25-06 is just about perfect for deer size game (deer/antelope/sheep/etc) so I would really question the opinion of anyone who says it was good for nothing. Now, its probably not as flexible as the .270, .308 or the ever popular .30-06, but for a dedicated deer rifle I think its a better choice than any of those more popular calibers.

That said, everyone has their personal favorites and we all like to sing the praises of our choices, but there is a line between extoling the benefits of your chosen caliber, and insulting someone else's choices.

 

[Sam1911]

Only hits count, but I'd argue that some hits count more than others,

Meh. Perhaps. A little. But all this arguing over .270 vs. '06, vs. 8mm Mauser, vs. 7mm Mauser, vs. ... whatever else? POINTLESS.

If you're making a decision on which gun to buy and you want to sharpen your pencil down to a fine, fine point -- pick all the nits -- and dance on pinheads with the angels? Fine.

Some dude's already got a gun he likes? Shuuuuutup and shoot. Fussing and sputtering that he coulda/shoulda/woulda bought a 6.88 mm-.300 Win Mag Ackley Improved, Nitro express instead? A waste of time at best, and downright rude.

and your choice of caliber can affect the number of hits and how they count in various ways.

Eh...one middle of the road rifle cartridge is about like another. A .25-'06 isn't going to be a whole heaping lot of different from some other common mid-range rifle cartridge. Not going to make a lot more hits faster because you switched to .257 Roberts, and not going to be able to kill a lot more deer deader because you switched to a 7mm Mag.

If someone wants to rain on your parade because you picked the wrong one out of the pool of 40-50+ perfectly appropriate cartridges for the job, either decide you're really really bored and want to argue for the fun of it, or just pat them on the head as you pass by on your way to the range.

 

[303tom]

It`s my right to own what ever caliber I wish and I don`t put no one else down for what they use & don`t care what someone else thinks, that`s my 2 cents.....................

 

[Godsgunman]

I think we all like to give advice because we all like to be heard and maybe think we are helping someone else. To be one to say "Oh you shouldn't have gone with x-caliber, everyone knows this caliber is better", is a waste of breath in my opinion. To me its all about what you can shoot comfortably and well as you said. Obviously there are exceptions like hunting lion or grizzly bears with a .22 now thats just stupid .
Its kind of like discussing handgun calibers especially your 9s, 40s, and 45s. With modern ammo they all accomplish the same thing essentially with very close numerical efficiency. Any one of them are good enough to stand behind for SD as long as you are proficient with them. Personally I really like my 9mm mak CZ 82 ALOT. I was just shooting it yesterday and thinking "man I really love how this shoots, and feels, and groups. This is my favorite gun to shoot." I have not a single doubt in my mind that I can effectively defend my life with that weapon, but I'm sure others would tell me I'm foolish and I need a 45.
To me its like comparing a nice granny smith apple with a red delicious, both are good but sometimes I prefer the tartness of the granny smith and sometimes the sweetness of the red delicious both will satisfy my hunger for an apple.

 

[Skribs]

Oh Sam...I ALWAYS want to argue for the fun of it! I also feel that debate is the only way people learn. I go into the debate thinking the other guy's going to learn. Sometimes he does, sometimes I do, sometimes we just throw pebbles at each other until someone gets hungry and grabs a Snickers.

You are right about middle-of-the-road cartridges, although I'll argue that they all do stuff a little different (its WHY we have 30 bajillion calibers on the market). I had an extreme example I was going to bring up earlier but I deemed it not a very good argument - something about how an Abrams would argue that hit from a M9 and a hit from a GAU/8 would feel entirely different. Then I realized I was going for a bit of hyperbole...

Gods, interesting point. It's like with gun choices. "I got a Glock!" "Glocks suck, get a XD." vs. (what I'll say) "Nice! Glocks are great, not my personal choice. I chose the XD because ______". Still gets across the message that XD is better (IMO) but not with insulting the buyer.

To me its like comparing a nice granny smith apple with a red delicious, both are good but sometimes I prefer the tartness of the granny smith and sometimes the sweetness of the red delicious both will satisfy my hunger for an apple.

No. Always red delicious.

 

[cougar1717]

why and who are to judge some ones choice in caliber?

1. It's way easier to judge someone's consumer choice than it is to evaluate their shooting ability.
2. People like to argue.
3. The internet made everyone an expert.

So, gun forums are like gunshop talk with 1000+ people, except you have a lot more to filter out and a lot more extreme viewpoints because everyone feels entitled to tell you what you ought to like.

 

[Skribs]

1. It's way easier to judge someone's consumer choice than it is to evaluate their shooting ability.

This is an interesting point. I often look at why they made that choice. For example,
"I got a .45 because it worked for the Army for decades in the 1911"...okay, someone else made the decision for you (the Army), but fair enough.
"I got a .45 because I shoot it just as well as the 9, and I want bigger holes." Makes sense, you thought it through and made your own decision.
"I got a .45 because when someone gets hit by it they'll go down and stay down." Uh...might want to reevaluate your knowledge on terminal ballistics, both in how well pistol rounds stop people and how much advantage the .45 actually gives you over the 9.

But, like I said, you bring up a good point. I'm an avid gamer, particularly RPGs, and it is much easier to judge someone based on the choices you see on screen (how good is their gear, etc) vs. how well they play the game.

 

[Walkalong]

I chose a .308 when I was a youth because the noise wasn't as bad on the ears as the ought six and .270 etc, and the recoil was nice. It has always killed game dead if I hit them right, so I still like it.

I had no idea how fast it went or the trajectory. I just knew that if the target was about that far, hold here, and if it was farther, hold about here.

No fancy ballistics studying for me back then. Still don't care about ballistics for the most part.

 

[Mike J]

When I wanted a deer rifle years ago I wanted a .30-06 because it was what all the older guys I worked with used. Of course I didn't have the internet to quickly research how many options there were but the .30-06 has done everything I have ever needed it to. A guy I hunt with uses a 7mm magnum & says he likes it because he doesn't have to look for his deer. Hunting together I have noticed his deer aren't any deader than mine & depending on where they are hit they travel about the same distance after being shot. Now I know his 7mm mag is flatter shooting at longer ranges than my aught six but that is the only advantage I see. I just let him say what he feels like he needs to & go do my business with my old cheapo winchester.

I see many people posting on these forums saying .40 is an inaccurate caliber. I do think it is harder to shoot well in some platforms for some people but I do not think the pistols chambered in .40 are any less mechanically accurate than the ones in 9mm or .45.

The bottom line is get what you like & let others do the same. If they want to shoot their mouths off & act like idiots let them. If you are like me sooner or later you'll say or do something stupid yourself.

 

[Texan Scott]

Clearly, you've never seen a Texan and a South Carolinian discuss pulled pork BBQ. I couldn't care LESS what you shot it with... if you smother it in ketchup and molasses and cook it in an oven, WE GON' HAVE TRUBBLE.
If it wasn't guns and meat, what would we talk about? Aluminum vs. fiberglass fishing boats? Aluminum vs. graphite shafts for golf clubs, heaven forbid? This is the way we are... it's what we do. It's the only way we know how to make friends or feel good about ourselves.
Also, you're OBVIOUSLY wrong, and that irritates me.

 

[mberoose]

People can kick rocks with no shoes on for all I care.

 

[Skribs]

Texan, I'd argue that arguing isn't about making friends, it's about one of two things:

1) I think I'm right and you're wrong, and someone needs to learn something, or
2) I know I'm right and you're wrong, and I'm going to prove it.

In different cases each are appropriate, but quite often #2 is brought up for opinions or personal choices, as opposed to emperically correct or incorrect statements. People who always default to 2 are full of themselves and only want people to agree with them.

 

[Texan Scott]

And now I'd have to argue that you're arguing with me about arguing. Is the OP taking notes, because this is how this stuff works, right here! LOL

ETA: I need something with bbq sauce on it, right now.

 

[Skribs]

I'm debating, not arguing.

And yes, I'm only saying that to argue.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

Some people think the .25-06 is just fine for elk, some don't. That would be the starting place for maybe putting down the .25-06 (I know you were just using it as an example, but, in defense of the .25-06....), but I think it is a FANTASTIC antelope rifle, and probably great for anything smaller, or anything closer than antelope like to be (say 400-600 yards?). But your right, if a person has somehting that is better, or in their mind better, they just HAVE to say so. I know I have. I hearby apologize to any and all I have offended.

 

[Naybor]

My favorite varmint rifle was a .223 bull barrel rifle. BUT, I've taken more groundhogs and coyotes with a .22 Magnum Marlin Model 25 MN bolt action. I use a .22 Marlin Model 60 for plinking, rabbit and squirrels, and just plain fun. My home defense weapon is a 12 Ga. Double Barrel Coach Shotgun. My favorite plinking handgun is a Ruger Mk III and my summer ccw is a Ruger LCP, winter carry is a Ruger SP101 .357.

That said, there is NO all-purpose caliber that will do a good job in all situations. Most shooters go thru a "cause and effect" process and decide on their own what caliber to use. My choices may not be the same as yours, and I agree that we shouldn't put down another shooter's choices.

I have a sheriff friend that can put a .22 LR between a target person's eyes virtually with every shot (1" groups at seven yards). He could get away with a .22 LR for ccw if he wanted to. I can't. I require a more powerful cartridge for ccw. Decide what works for you and be respectful to those who disagree.

 

[Naybor]

Texan Scott, after living in Oklahoma for awhile, I agree.
Barbeque out there is much better.

Also a hot dog is not any good without chow chow on it. A restaurant is not any good without gumbo and frog legs. At least, we have a Texas Roadhouse close to us here in Ohio.

But, I don't miss the Oklahoma heat and wildfires.

People here in Ohio don't know what's good, but it's better to not argue with them. Oh well, maybe SOME arguing is good.