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Why not 11mm? or 12mm?

Discussion in 'Handguns: General Discussion' started by MPanova, Oct 3, 2007.

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  1. MPanova

    MPanova Member

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    They make a lot of hand gun rounds close to the same size as the 9mm, the 10mm is pretty much the same size as the 40S&W so why not take it a step or 2 further with a 11mm which would be .43 and close to a 45acp or even a 12mm which would be .47 and just in-between 45acp and .50cal. Just curious and board at work. :D
     
  2. LSCurrier

    LSCurrier Member

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    It seems to me that there are enough popular existing calibers close to the ones you suggest to make it worthwhile to make the investment risk.

    .45ACP is my choice - though I do own 9mm and .357 Magnum as well. .45ACP 230grain HP is pretty hard to beat - though it can be shown the .357 Magnum has a long track record of being as good or better.

    Luke
     
  3. MPanova

    MPanova Member

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    I guess I was wondering more about why in the past was it never developed. We have seen a few come out a few years back like the 357sig and 45gap that seem to stick aorund. I would think a 12mm the same width as a .45acp would be a great seller. I think a 12mm 265gr JHP that traveled 950fps would have potential :D Ruger would be a great company to put this out too, and on there P90 platform
     
  4. Kimber1911_06238

    Kimber1911_06238 Member

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    why not 20 mm?
     
  5. AntiqueCollector

    AntiqueCollector Member

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    There were 11, 12 and even 15 mm (and maybe bigger but I haven't seen bigger) in the past as pinfire cartridges. But pinfire is almost dead now obviously. I'm actually surprised myself no one created centerfire cartridges in these sizes...
     
  6. esq_stu

    esq_stu Member

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    It takes big risks to begin manufacturing a new caliber before there's a clear demand or market for it. .357 SIG has caught on with some law enforcement; .45 GAP has not taken off big-time. 6.8 SPC?

    You not only must make the ammo on spec, you need to get one or more gun makers to tool up, build and market new guns in your caliber. Sell it to military or law enforcement to get critical mass and it might work. But how often do they ask for a new caliber?
     
  7. papajack

    papajack Member

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    i seem to remember hearing that the bigger the caliber, the slower the bullet. 9mm has armor piercing abilities while .45 (about 11mm) does not.
     
  8. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Because there is no need to add calibers just to make the numbers come out even in French measurements. If you want an 11mm, buy a .44. If you want a 12mm, buy a .45 or .50. For Heaven's sake, MPanova, you are in Texas, you don't need millimeters.
     
  9. unspellable

    unspellable Member

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    New caliber

    Pewrsonally, I am of the opinion we need a 31-30 to fill the performance gap between the 30-30 and the 32 Special.
     
  10. Walkalong

    Walkalong Moderator

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    I think Glock should come out with a .477 GAP. :evil:
     
  11. warriorsociologist

    warriorsociologist Member

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    My favorite is the 10.4mm (.41 Mag)...followed closely by the .91mm (.38/.357 Mag.).

    Naming conventions (like naming the ".43 mag" THE .44 MAGNUM probably because the latter sounded better to some marketing guy). The choice between an inch-based or a MM based system is semantics when on the drawing board. The .40 S&W / 10mm is a good example. The 10mm was first, but when it was decided to releae & market a reduced & shortened round based on it, someone at S&W probably thought that ".40 S&W" would sell better (and give them credit better) than "10mm Special."

    my .02
     
  12. Onmilo

    Onmilo Member

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    11.25mm sounds goofy, that's why .45 is the more popular moniker.

    Now the Desert Eagle 12.7mm Punisher sounds better than the Desert Eagle .50 Action Express to me, but that's just me,,,,,,
     
  13. Jim Watson

    Jim Watson Member

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    Winchester prototyped a .31 caliber, I have a picture of the 1886 somewhere. But it was not to "fill the gap", it was to provide a step up from .30 WCF. I think it was before they brought out the .33 but am not sure.
     
  14. Zundfolge

    Zundfolge Member

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    IIRC, another name for .45acp is 11mm M40.

    I also seem to remember some old Swedish revolver chambered in 11x17, and a Norwegian pistol in 11.25 (which was .45acp).
     
  15. the pistolero

    the pistolero Member

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    I can't speak to the way it used to be, but as far as today goes, I've heard people say modern bullet technology has shrunk the performance gap between, say, 9mm and .45 (light & fast vs. heavy & slow). And if you want a little bit more of both weight and speed, the .40S&W and the 10mm would cover that as well. (My personal favorite is the 10mm.) But all that was more or less to say that I think lscurrier was right. All the existing pistol calibers are just fine; there's really no need for any more. I think a better question might be, why clutter the sidearm landscape with any more calibers? Just for one example, couldn't the 10mm adequately cover any task that would call for something like a .357Sig?
     
  16. Geronimo45

    Geronimo45 Member

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    'Cause ammo is pricey enough already without going to a higher priced, hard-to-get cartridge, I guess.

    I am surprised nobody's made any handgun millimeter-magnums (does S&W have the copyright/trademark on the 'Magnum' label?). Still think it would be a good idea to take the 7.62x25mm Tokarev cartridge, load it at 1500 FPS, and call it the 8mm Magnum - and chamber it in a new pistol of some sort.
     
  17. elric

    elric Member

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    They have, the 9mm Winchester Magnum and the 10mm magnum. They never really caught on, though. They aren't toatlly dead, you can get new brass from starline:

    http://www.starlinebrass.com/pricelist.html

    eta: This article makes it sound like the 9mm Win Mag is about the kind of performance you were looking for:

    http://www.sixguns.com/tests/tt9mag.htm
     
  18. Majic

    Majic Member

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    I guess you haven't heard of the .454, .460, and the .500. :D
     
  19. CWL

    CWL Member

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    First question you need to ask is "Why?" Is there a need by anyone or anything to add another caliber?

    Next question is "Who?" What company will spend hundreds of thousands of dollars developing a cartridge & gun, then spend a few hundred thousand more to create tooling & dies. Then spend several hundred thousand more on marketing. This will cost millions before the first bullet is cast & gun manufactured.

    Then ask "How Many? How many guns do you think will actually sell?
     
  20. Smurfslayer

    Smurfslayer Member

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    Size does matter

    anyone here know the metric bore diameter required for a hockey puck?:evil:
     
  21. TallPine

    TallPine Member

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    Lots easier to develop a new revolver caliber than an new semi-auto caliber. ;)
     
  22. jefnvk

    jefnvk Member

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    I do believe that is the mechanical pencil gun :p

    'tis always possible for you to design them, if you really can find a use for them.
     
  23. rcmodel

    rcmodel Member in memoriam

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    Up until about 1960, you couldn't give an American gun buyer anything ending in mm, much less sell them one.

    Anything ending in mm was for Furiners, and 9mm ammo was only fit for that German pistol daddy brought home from the War!

    [​IMG]
    rcmodel
     
  24. Jim K

    Jim K Member

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    Before folks get carried away, under U.S. law any cartridge firearm (except a shotgun) over .50 caliber (12.7mm) is a "destructive device" and subject to registration and tax. So you probably won't be seeing any 40mm derringers this week.

    Jim
     
  25. RevolverMan567

    RevolverMan567 Member

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    45 acp

    45 is technically 11.25 mm just ask an argentine systema
     
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