Why Not 22 Mag.?

[snooperman]

I agree with MCGUUNER and GOLDEN on this discussion

There is not going to be adequate energy in Ft/lbs to make it worth your while as a carry gun. Carry at least a 38 special in a snubby , preferably a +P load or a good lightweight 9mm such as the KelTec P11 and you will have a higher probability of stopping the "bad guy" than some puny 22 cal. BRING ENOUGH GUN. I carry a Colt detective IWB everyday ,and for backup , sometimes I carry a 9mm KelTec P11 or a pocket 380.

 

[mgkdrgn]

22Mag is a particularly nasty little round that never really gets it's due. It's much more than a 22lr on steroids.

My daily carry is a NAA Black Widow in 22mag. Why, because it's small enough and light enough for me to actually CARRY, comfortably, and without any one else knowing about it, here in SC where I am in T shirt and shorts 8+ months of the year.

Is it what I would want to take on the Zombie invasion or a horde of Zulu warriors? No ... but I can't fit a drum magazine shotgun in my pocket ...

 

[HB]

I think a 22 mag round with a more appropriate powder would work wonders in a pistol

HB

 

[BUFF]

I agree with what Confederate is sayin (may be adequate but not optimal)..and I agree that the Ruger MK would be fierce to go against in the right hands. I could absolutely envision someone with a snubbie .38 fumbling and failing to hit in a crisis situation and the MK could drop 7 or 8 yellowjackets with pinpoint accuracy. Nothing has ever felt so right in my hands as a MK and a BHP.

 

[easyg]

If the .22 magnum (from a handgun) was an effective caliber to use against hostile humans, then police and military would be carrying them.

 

[Can2boy]

remember guys, A 22 in your pocket or hip is far more effective than a 45 in your gun safe. as archangel said any gun is better than no gun at all.

 

[MCgunner]

I think a 22 mag round with a more appropriate powder would work wonders in a pistol

HB

I recently bought a NAA super companion, the cap and ball version of the .22 mag. With 2 grains B'eye, it'll push those little 30 grain NAA conicals over 1200 fps. I gotta admit, I'm impressed. That's better than NAA shows the 30 grain CCI magnum in the same barrel length. Pretty accurate out to 15 yards, too. The neat thing about this version is you can buy spare cylinders for 40 bucks. I'm getting ready to order one. Gives you a quicker reload than trying to reload the cartridge version. This may be one time that the cap and ball is better than the modern cartridge revolver!

I'd been wanting to try the super companion for quite a while. I knew NAA and Freedom Arms used to advertise using bullseye in these guns. It met my best hopes. I will use it when carrying the .380 or 9 is just not possible, which ain't often, but happens. I'm really liking the thing.

 

[nitro105]

Are you allowed to shoot hollow points for defence down there? I can't even take my ruger bisley hunting to keep a bear from chewing my leg off.

 

[MCgunner]

We can uses whatever we can buy. I don't worry about problems with handloads, either, not in Texas. I'm not sure hollow points is wise in .22 mag, anyway. I'd worry about getting enough penetration if i got any expansion. It ain't like you're going to get any massive energy transfer from 110 ft lbs or so. Your best bet is to open two holes and try to hit something vital. With such mouse calibers, head shots are preferred.

 

[BUFF]

I love that little NAA setup McGunner!! That looks perfect as a summer CCW..when nothing else has a place to ride..

 

[woad_yurt]

I like a .22 WMR in a longish barrel. It's a little weak in a pocket gun. I wish they'd load a revolver-friendly round for the caliber.

How about a P3AT or another little .380? It's quite a bit more oomph in the same sized package.

 

[BUFF]

Does the Kel-Tec run a little smaller than the LCP? I'm a big Ruger guy

 

[NG VI]

According to my NRA instructor the .22 Mag has greater muzzle energy (324 ft/lbs) than .38 Spcl, .380, .32 & .25 yet many posters prefer the .38 Spcl. or others.
Stopping power is often dependant upon a vital body part being hit and the .22 Mag has great penetration. My thinking is that if you miss a vital part by more than 1/4 inch you would miss with a .45 too.

The problem is that for a few ounces more (you never said what model your .40 was, and that makes a big difference, they run the gamut from 15 ounce poly-framed Kahrs and 19 ounce Glock 27s to forty or more ounce unloaded high capacity 1911 variants, which kind yours is will help us give you some leads to investigate.) you can get something in 9mm, .40, whatever. For the same weight unless you have an NAA mini you can get a .38 that is exactly the same size.

And that 324 foot-pounds at the muzzle is out of a rifle barrel, plus the .22 Magnum is generally loaded for varmint hunting, not self-defense. They have different goals and performance standards for the bullet they launch. Out of a snub-nosed revolver, you'll be lucky to get half that muzzle energy. A .38 out of a short revolver is a known quantity, loads (many of them) are designed specifically for the platform, and it isn't dependent on a 20" barrel for that performance.

 

[NG VI]

Oh and I know this is a necro thread where the poster changed course immediately.

 

[MCgunner]

Does the Kel-Tec run a little smaller than the LCP? I'm a big Ruger guy

The Ruger is very slightly heavier, but both guns are about the same size.

 

[pezo]

"If the .22 magnum (from a handgun) was an effective caliber to use against hostile humans, then police and military would be carrying them". but the military and police dont need to carry ultra concealed weapons necessarily either. Nobody's saying it as balllistically effective as a standard sized defense caliber, but try finding a 9mm that can fit in the extra small pocket on the right side of a pair of levi's unnoticalble pal. Whats good for the military is not always good for the LEO' is not always good for NON LEO. Military can only use hard ball anyways because of geneva convention, that kinda sucks. Doesnt mean I'm gonna pack hard ball ammo.

 

[woad_yurt]

Does the Kel-Tec run a little smaller than the LCP?

The Kel-Tec is lighter and thinner. The slide is a little thinner but the grip, quite a bit. Makes for less of a presence. My friend has an LCP and there was a noticeable difference when I put it in my pocket. It's a choice: Not-as-small-but-prettier or smaller-but-not-as-pretty.

 

[Walkalong]

Serving me well since 1978. I've seen what it will do to things. I don't believe anyone wants to get shot 2 or 3 times up close and personal with this thing. It beats the bigger caliber that was left behind because we were too lazy to pack it. Back in the day the other options this small were little .25's and .22 LR's. I still carry this NAA .22 Mag at times instead of my .32 Seecamp or 1911 .45. I don't figure I'll be in a fire fight any time soon.

 

[Sam1911]

Note of correction:

Military can only use hard ball anyways because of Geneva convention, that kinda sucks.

Not the Geneva convention. The Hague Convention of 1899, which also forbade the launching of projectiles and explosives from balloons or other aerial platforms.

 

[MCgunner]

Serving me well since 1978. I've seen what it will do to things. I don't believe anyone wants to get shot 2 or 3 times up close and personal with this thing. It beats the bigger caliber that was left behind because we were too lazy to pack it. Back in the day the other options this small were little .25's and .22 LR's. I still carry this NAA .22 Mag at times instead of my .32 Seecamp or 1911 .45. I don't figure I'll be in a fire fight any time soon.

I don't think even the baby Browning was as small, actually, nor as light. It fills a niche in a carry battery. I don't understand these folks that have one carry, a 1911, and that's all they claim to carry. That's simply not possible for me. I have to have a range and I carry the biggest, best I can. 90 percent of the time that's either a Kel Tec P11 in 9x19+P or Taurus 85UL loaded with 158 grain .38 +P in a pocket, 8 percent of the time it's a bigger belt gun either in .357 magnum or .45ACP, but then 2 percent of the time, I need my NAAs. The NAAs make great back ups or third guns, too, so small there's no reason NOT to carry them.

The Kel-Tec is lighter and thinner. The slide is a little thinner but the grip, quite a bit. Makes for less of a presence. My friend has an LCP and there was a noticeable difference when I put it in my pocket. It's a choice: Not-as-small-but-prettier or smaller-but-not-as-pretty.

My Grendel is the same length and height as the LCP. I have a wallet holster I made for it that I can carry in my back pocket of any pants I've ever worn and it just looks like a wallet there. I don't get excited about a couple of tenths of an inch in thickness and it holds 12 rounds in its 12 ounce frame which is welcome in a marginal caliber. This is why I've decided I don't need one of the new generation .pocket .380s, at least at this time.

 

[snooperman]

Read the research on this.....

According to Ed Lovette in his book, 50% of confrontations start with a physical attack by the bad guy in which the individual is knocked down from behind and beaten, stabbed or shot before he has a chance to respond. If you can get to your gun , many times you can't , you may not be able to get the shot placement needed to end it in your favor. Also, he recommends a second carry gun on the opposite side, so you may be able to respond. Ed Lovette has researched such attacks frrom 1958-2002 and recommends at least a 38 special +P or a 9mm handgun for your primary carry gun. WHY? Because the probability of you winning goes down quickly with the size of the caliber. The 22 magnum is just not an adequate choice. Oh yes, I hear the proverbial "It is better than nothing" which defies good judgement when there is so much data to refute this nonsensical statement, to say the least. BRING ENOUGH GUN-- Like Bil l Jordan said 50 years ago, "there are no second place winners" My 2 cents

 

[MCgunner]

What if your only option to your 500 S&W magnum is the .22 mag or go unarmed? I'll give you a for instance. I was just in the hospital 2 hours ago visiting my wife. You are not legal carrying in a hospital. Do you really wanna risk being "made"? I just pulled my 9mm off my belt (Rosen IWB) and locked it out of sight in the car and walked in carrying two NAA minis, one in each pocket.

Gun writers rarely live in the real world. Many are cops and don't have to worry about "being made" in a no fly zone. If I had the option, I'd carry a 12 gauge everywhere, but that's simply not possible in the real world.

 

[snooperman]

Gun Writers do live in the real world...

In fact most of the research that has been done in this area has been done by them and I would gladly take their advice .Probability with stopping power is real and it cannot be ignored , The problem with these small calibers is they might work but is it the best to have on your body when a larger caliber would have a higher probability of stopping an attack. AS a second gun or third gun , I would not have one. These are personal choices. One can find a light weight 380 to put it their pocket with a much better probability and better outcome than a 22 magnum. By the way Bill Jordan, Ed Lovette, John Taffin , and Masad Ayoob live in the real world as writers and a prudent person would take their advice as well.

 

[MCgunner]

AS a second gun or third gun , I would not have one.

So, your third gun is.......Desert Eagle .50AE? Yeah, I agree with you about normal carry as a primary or even second gun should be a service caliber. But, I have the little NAAs for the abnormal. I always have my .22 in my left pocket/weak side pocket. I usually carry either a 9 or an ultralite .38 in the strong side pocket. Then, occasionally, if I deem it prudent, I'll wear a long, baggy Hawaiian type shirt or in cooler weather when I can, I'll wear a long vest as a cover garment and wear a belt gun. When I wear a belt gun, much of the time lately I carry my 3" Taurus 66 .357 magnum in a JIT slide with a Taurus 85UL in the strong pocket as back up. That way I can carry two speed strips loaded with .38 158 +P which will reload either gun. Now, that's when I'm paranoid. I run a paper route twice a week and collect once a week and have enough money on me then that I do get kinda paranoid. I'll usually carry a belt gun if I'm going to a big city, too. I occasionally go with the 9 in a pocket and my .45 in a summer special, but I really like that .357 and the OWB belt slide, comfy and compact.

In the above cases, I always have a NAA .22 in my weak side pocket. It's better than not carrying it and I figure if I'm struggling with someone and only have my weak arm free, I can screw that thing in his ear and let him have it. You can't tell me a .22LR, much less a magnum, to the head point blank ain't gonna hurt. I mean, I'm no gun writer, but I have killed a lot of things with .22s, even pistols. They will do more'n you think or seem to give 'em credit for. I know I don't wanna get shot in the ear with a .22 mini, LR or magnum.

I do have the little super companion as a primary option when nothing bigger will do. I do not wish to be unarmed and there are times when it is that or being unarmed, few, but there are times. Besides, I had run out of things to buy and thought it'd be cool and fill a niche.

 

[Sam1911]

I'm no gun writer...

HA! HA! That's an awesome catchphrase! I think tossing that out earns anyone an instant +2 credibility points.

Sort of like back in the day when the soap opera actors would hock cold medicine and open the advertisement with, "I'm not a doctor, but I play one on TV..."

Jim: "In my experience..."
Bob: "What? That doesn't sound right!"
Jim: "Well, I'm no gunwriter!"
Bob: "Oh, sorry, I didn't mean any offense, I'm sure you're right!"