Why not more pump action rifles/historically?

[entropy]

3) The semi auto won WWII.

Only one country issued semiauto rifles as standard issue, and that country did not win WWII on it's own.

It would be more accurate to say Air power, along with manufacturing capacity, won WWII. And we did not have a monopoly on that either, though we were the best at both.

Select fire rifles have won most wars since then, (except Korea) yet they are not firmly entrenched in the deer hunter psyche.

 

[tark]

Only one country issued semiauto rifles as standard issue, and that country did not win WWII on it's own.

Germany issued one semi-auto rifle ,the G-43. And they also issued a select fire rifle, the STG 44, and its prototypes. And do not forget the Fg-42, which was a full sized, select fire, 7.92X57 mm rifle. It was a remarkable engineering feat, which fired from the closed bolt on semi-auto and the open bolt on automatic fire. There are only 26 of these guns on the ATF registry. An average example will bring a third of a million dollars at auction. They were limited issued to Paratroopers only, but they were issued. While all three of these weapons were not standard issue at the war's outset, neither was the Garand. The M-1 did not achieve universal issuance until near 1944. Many of the troops that came ashore at the Normandy beaches were still armed with Springfield rifles.

 

[tark]

This is what an FG-42 looks like . The one I am holding appears to have never been fired. FZS is the Nazi code for Kreighoff, who took over production after the gun was developed by Rhienmatall, who was too busy making aircraft cannons to produce the gun. In the third pic you can see the selector switch, which is in the semi- auto position.

 

[Swampman]

Only one country issued semiauto rifles as standard issue, and that country did not win WWII on it's own.

It would be more accurate to say Air power, along with manufacturing capacity, won WWII. And we did not have a monopoly on that either, though we were the best at both.

Select fire rifles have won most wars since then, (except Korea) yet they are not firmly entrenched in the deer hunter psyche.

I thought it was pretty obvious that this thread is about the choices American shooters have historically made regarding rifle action types. These choices have been affected by the RIFLES used by Americans in past conflicts, not their B29's, P51's and Sherman Tanks and certainly not the heavy weapons of their Allies.

Your comments about select fire rifles "not being firmly entrenched in the deer hunter psyche." Are pretty ridiculous since full auto fire is generally frowned upon by game regulations and even if it weren't, the full auto registry closed in 1986, well before the MSR rose to its current prominence.

Win. levers of all the actions saw limited use in military actions through the mid 1800's (M1866, with a IIlinois militia unit in the Civil War)

Can you please explain how an Illinois militia unit was able to use a rifle that didn't go into production until 1866 to fight in a war that ended in 1865?

I've heard of B. Tyler Henry's rifle getting some use in the Civil War, but nothing about any time traveling Winchesters.

 

[entropy]

Can you please explain how an Illinois militia unit was able to use a rifle that didn't go into production until 1866 to fight in a war that ended in 1865?

I've heard of B. Tyler Henry's rifle getting some use in the Civil War, but nothing about any time traveling Winchesters.

Yes, they were Henrys. Mea Culpa. (me laughing at myself)
Vestrum erit flagitum; the way you stated "The semi auto won WWII". This thread is about why pump rifles aren't more popular, not what won what war. Because small arms don't win wars. I will agree that they may have become more familiar to veterans because of wars

Lever guns were predominant among the guns that won the west. (Even there, there were pumps involved. Colt Lightnings. ) You saw whatever gun the script called for in John Wayne's hand, even if it was a plastic toy M-16 that he smashed up on a tree after Kowalski's death in "the Green Berets."

However, if we are going down the rabbit hole of what was popular with US gun owners because of what was used in wars, the Trapdoor would have won the west, but lever guns had more capacity, as the Henry's ( and not the time-travelling Winchesters ) use in the Civil War showed, so for those that could afford them at the time, they were the first choice.

The comment about Post-WWII select-fire rifles and consumer choices was an ad absurdium extension of your premise to demonstrate that it does not correlate. You are entirely correct, State DNR's don't allow them for game, and yes the registry is closed. And in a sense, the semi auto MSR used for hunting is the result of both those.

I get what you meant, it's just that the generalization changed the meaning.

I believe the main reason pump rifles never became popular is because most of the early ones were in pistol calibers, except the Colt Lightning Express models, of which few were made. By the time Remington started production on the Model 14, WWI had started, and by it's end, bolt actions became available as surplus, and ammo was plentiful. As has been mentioned in other posts, the pump rifle became it's most popular, (so to speak) in the Eastern and Midwestern forests, probably because of it's handiness and medium power rounds.

 

[Agsalaska]

Wow thanks for all of the replies. I posted this and the next day life got in the way and I completely forgot about it. I was at the range tonight and they had a 760 in 300 savage for sale and I immediately thought of this post. I don't think I have ever posted an OP and then walked away from it.

Looking forward to reading the responses.

 

[entropy]

Did you buy the .300? Nice caliber for the 760!

 

[Agsalaska]

Did you buy the .300? Nice caliber for the 760!

No but I have not ruled it out. I did send it to a buddy of mine who is looking for a truck gun.

It has no rust but like a lot of these old rifles somebody etched their SSN into the receiver.

 

[entropy]

I have an Ithaca Trap gun that a former owner engraved his name and SSN on, fortunately on the water table, so it doesn't show.

 

[351 WINCHESTER]

There was a time when Pennsylvania did not allow semi auto rifles for deer hunting so that was a big part of the pump action attraction I think.

My Grandfather bought a Remington 14 prior to the Great Depression in .35. He cut 14 notches on a piece of brass he fit to the butstock - 1 for every deer he killed.

 

[Random 8]

Wow thanks for all of the replies. I posted this and the next day life got in the way and I completely forgot about it. I was at the range tonight and they had a 760 in 300 savage for sale and I immediately thought of this post. I don't think I have ever posted an OP and then walked away from it.

Looking forward to reading the responses.

You absolutely need to buy this. I have one, and it is a real joy to shoot. I've also fired 760s/7600s in .244 Rem, .308 and 30-06, and the .300 Sav is by far the most pleasant to fire. Silky smooth extraction, mild recoil. The recoil is simple physics. I think the .300 Sav cartridge operating at lower pressures enhances the cycling experience.

 

[9x56MS]

The 760/7600 pump works for left handed people, the safety was easily changed. I find recovery time after 30-06 recoil is fast, while loading the next round. The Rem 7600 can be as accurate as any off the shelf bolt action.

Auction prices were stuck at $350 for years. The Rems have just taken a big jump in prices.

In Pennsylvania, no semi-auto rifles for deer or bear season, as said above. Semi-Auto shotguns are ok.

I remember seeing this back in the 1950s. View attachment 1037115

That is a remington model 14 with the twist magazine tube that in theory allowed use of pointed bullets. I have one and it is in 30 remington and it is fast to operate and accurate. It also only weighs 6.25 lbs with a peep sight. I have taken deer and hogs with it. I forgot to mention it was made in 1920. Great rifles for still hunting or drive hunting.