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Why *not* support the NRA?

Discussion in 'General Gun Discussions' started by azmjs, Apr 29, 2011.

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  1. azmjs

    azmjs member

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    The reasons a person ought to support the NRA are pretty straightforward- they're the preeminent gun rights lobbyist and gun enthusiast's organization.

    No one can really dispute this, and no one really tries, which begs the question - if this is the case, why not support the NRA?

    If you don't support the NRA, or you know of reasons why people don't, please share them.

    Hopefully I and other supporters of the NRA can come up with answers to these specific concerns, and welcome you or other holdouts into the NRA fold.

    No one can say that the NRA is perfect, but we must not make the mistake of allowing the perfect to be the enemy of the good. If we go down that foolish path, we end up only with the bad.

    So, what's not to like about the National Rifle Association?
     
  2. azmjs

    azmjs member

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    I'll start with an objection I take a keen interest in - that the NRA is not politically orthodox.

    What this means is that the NRA does not sign on to a whole slate of orthodox political opinions. For example, the NRA gives high marks to very liberal political leaders who happen to be friendly to guns, and the NRA doesn't use its considerable political might to push low taxes or anti-abortion.

    (While I personally consider demanding political orthodoxy to be evil and unethical because of my knowledge of Soviet history, my personal opinions aren't really suitable for convincing other people, so we'll leave this point behind. )

    Lets look at it pragmatically.

    First we've got to first fess up about how we prioritize gun rights in the broader landscape political controversies. If you put guns pretty low on your list, The NRA might just not seem worth the effort.

    I think though that when you consider the efficacy and efficiency of the NRA vs any potential alternative, it still makes sense to donate. If you care about gun rights at all, at least give a little to the NRA, because you know it will help.

    There's no guarantee that giving money to an organization that counts guns among a broader slate of activist issues will actually end up getting anything done for guns.

    Another possibility is that a person might feel that he can withdraw support from the NRA in order to blackmail it into adopting his broader political views. If you're guilty of this, remember the golden rule. And remember that holding gun rights hostage in exchange for any other political concession makes you an anti-gunner.

    Lastly we should consider the example of the nation's preeminent defender of individual liberty, the American Civil Liberties Union. In the same way that that gun rights are strongly correlated with the American right, defense of individual liberties are correlated with the left. The NRA has succeeded, largely, in remaining a nonpartisan organization, but the ACLU has not done enough to court support from its nominal political opponents and to suppress the partisanship of its members.

    As a result, many people who would, if they only cared about actions, values and results, support the ACLU, instead deny it their support based on political considerations.

    If this happens to the NRA, it can only hurt the cause of gun rights.

    Using the most pragmatic terms of all, we should at last consider that the NRA can afford to neglect the politics of its base, because its base is so devoted to the gun issue, and because its base owes it a debt of gratitude for what it has already done.

    Energy expended to gain support from liberals will do a great deal more extra good for the cause of guns than expending the same energy to chase down selfish or reluctant conservatives.

    The right can be counted on to do right by guns, the left needs to be won over.
     
  3. Fleet

    Fleet Member

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    Because they have a very bad habit of compromising.
     
  4. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    Two words

    Junk mail
     
  5. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    you do know you can opt out of that right?


    i honestly have a hard time believing that junk mail is a burden to people......you dont want it, throw it out...you dont even need to open it, problem solved.
     
    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  6. kilo729

    kilo729 Member

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    Meh. Because the ranges near me have the annoying requirement of NRA membership.


    P.S. We just had a thread or two about this.
     
  7. Ole Coot

    Ole Coot Member

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    I have belonged longer than I can remember, it's really all we have and it sure ain't perfect. I don't care for the junk mail and the phone calls really tick me off. Show me something better.
     
  8. kingpin008

    kingpin008 Member

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    Spoken like an individual who doesn't get the fact that those compromises were made in the face of much, much less favorable options.
     
  9. azmjs

    azmjs member

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    So did the Founding Fathers.

    There's absolutely nothing wrong with compromise, it was what our nation was founded on.
     
  10. Vonderek

    Vonderek Member

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    Last edited: Apr 29, 2011
  11. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    The "Vectors" Thing

    You know, I did warn y'all that I have a long-winded, abstract post that deals with this very thing (the narrow focus -vs- broad address or rights).

    Keep this up and I will definitely post it.

    :D

     
  12. Cosmoline

    Cosmoline Member

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    You don't understand--if I join I want to NEVER receive a single piece of mail from the NRA or anyone affiliated with them. Instead they send out tons of notices, crud and of course requests for more money. I'd give them money if they would agree never to speak with me or communicate with me in any way. If I'm interested in what's going on I just visit the webpage.
     
  13. THE DARK KNIGHT

    THE DARK KNIGHT Member

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    1. Their advertisers are a joke - how could anyone take those magazines seriously when the ads for garbage late-night TV scams like rare emerald faux jewelry, Legends of the South shot glasses and snake medicine anti-aging pills?

    2. incessant junk mail

    3. Outdated magazines - not so much the NRA's fault but most of the magazine content is weeks and months behind by the time it hits print, just plain pointless for the internet age. Not to mention much of the rhetoric is extremely hyperbolic/melodramatic and makes them harder to take seriously.

    4. Despite being a pro-gun organization and stating that they are politically neutral on all but gun rights, they openly embrace/endorse people like the discredited fool Glen Beck and have them speak at events. Why would I want to donate my money to an organization that pays for a crying madman who scribbles conspiracy theories on a chalk board to come spew his filth at their convention?
     
  14. earlthegoat2

    earlthegoat2 Member

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    You can say the same thing about republicans yet a few of us still vote for them.
     
  15. rellascout

    rellascout member

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    And I am sure when others disagree you will then shut down the thread. :p
     
  16. Nushif

    Nushif Member

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    This! Lemme just rephrase that ...

    3. Outdated <rhetoric> - not so much the NRA's fault but most of the [...] content is [...] behind by the time it hits print, just plain pointless for the internet age. Not to mention much of the rhetoric is extremely hyperbolic/melodramatic and makes them harder to take seriously.

    4. Despite being a pro-gun organization and stating that they are politically neutral on all but gun rights, they openly embrace/endorse people like [some rather extremist dude at the end of either spectrum, really] and have them speak at events. Why would I want to donate my money to an organization that pays for a crying madman who [does stuff conspiracy theorists across the ages have done] ?
     
  17. LawScholar

    LawScholar Member

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    I am happy that the NRA supports both Democrats and Republicans. It lends them credit as a legitimate organization that seeks to promote rights instead of a partisan group.

    By comparison, the ACLU has lost nearly all credibility by siding with liberals/democrats on almost everything.

    The fact of the matter is, there are a LOT of gun owners out there. We are a diverse community. Not all of us have the same opinions on taxation, gay marriage, Roe v. Wade, or a host of other unrelated political issues. I say GOOD. The anti-gun community is also large and powerful, and if we pick on each other for non-gun related issues, the tent will get a lot smaller, and with it the formidable influence of the NRA.
     
  18. TheCracker

    TheCracker Member

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    Same here.
     
  19. danez71

    danez71 Member

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    Because their scare tactics are, at times, no better than the anti's scare tactics.

    I find it insulting that they, or anyone else, feel they must scare me to convince me rather than stating logical analysis.


    Of course, this may just be a reflection of (potentially) society's need to be scared in order to take a stand.
     
  20. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    when you join, call them up and tell them that very same thing......you wont receive anything further from them.
     
  21. Bmac1949

    Bmac1949 Member

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    When Charleston Heston held the musket over his head and said his "cold dead hands" line they lost me. And when Lapierre said that not having an extended mag would have made no difference in Tucson they lost me again. I find this as big a problem a the idiots that want to take weapons from the public.
     
  22. Double Naught Spy

    Double Naught Spy Sus Venator

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    All in all, the NRA is a well-intended organization that often doesn't present the facts in a manner that is fair and they hounded me like hell when I joined about all sorts of stuff. I emailed and called and the mailings never stopped. I rec'd multiple copies of Tales of the Gun, 2 medallion, 2 silver bullets, but never rec'd the darned NRA baseball cap I was supposed to receive for my 5 year membershp.

    I found their political mailings to often be several weeks tardy. They send out urgent mailings about matters where I need to contact my representatives and it is for stuff where I contacted my representatives the previous month.

    They mean well, but it bugged the hell out of me that my initial support wasn't going to be enough. Joining 5 years wasn't long enough.

    I have no doubt that they probably spent more on me in mailings than my membership ever cost. I am defintely convinced that they were not good stewards with my membership money. I don't need the NRA to keep me several weeks late "up-to-date" on hot political issues. That service of the NRA is antiquated and I can get what I need for free off the internet.
     
  23. M-Cameron

    M-Cameron member

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    but does the internet fight for your 2A rights?
     
  24. rellascout

    rellascout member

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    Simply not true. I am completely opted out of mailings but received the most recent DVD and coin. Called them to ask why they told me that the DVD list is a separate mailing list. I have to call Monday-Friday 9-5 to opt out of this special list.

    :cuss:
     
  25. ArfinGreebly

    ArfinGreebly Moderator Emeritus

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    JBT


    *Sigh*

    Y'know, maybe posting that discussion would be a bad idea.

    It's all abstract and stuff. Guaranteed to slide right over people's heads, cause confusion, and generally invite all kinds of misguided debate and bickering.

    And bickering typically turns into uncivil discourse.

    And uncivil discourse leads to closing threads.

    And I just took off my jack boots for the night.

     
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