Why such disparity with Unique Loads in a 44 mag 240 grain.

[gonoles_1980]

When I first start loading Unique in my 44mag I was using the layman manual and the Speer manual (which matches the Alliant site). The Layman manual starts at 10grs of Unique for a 240gr Linotype. The Speer manual and Alliant site has a starting charge of 6.5 grain and a max load of 7.0 for a 240gr LSWC. The Alliant site has a 250 grain lead (Keith load) starting at 11 grains, normally you use less powder for heavier bullets. My first loads I started with 6.5 grains, worked up to 6.7grains. Felt really soft, I'm shooting these out of a Redhawk with a 7" barrel, 54oz. So I moved up to 8.00 grains and tried 8.5. Both seemed like nice moderate loads when I shot them and I've been using 8.5 grains since 2017. Dropped back to 8 grains to start preserving powder.

Any idea on why the disparity in the load data?

 

[Jim Watson]

Yes.



Oh, you want me to explain.
Speer is loading for their soft swaged semiwadcutter and fear that if you load it too heavily you will get barrel leading and complain. Apparently Alliant is, too. Pressures are not likely near the maximum.

A well lubed hard cast bullet will stand a lot more.

 

[Encoreman]

Welcome to the wonderful world of reloading. Everyone I know tells the newcomers to read the load books, that is fine, but I am like you why all the different load data. Well each load book is different, if it is an older one, they will usually have higher starting and max powder amounts. When you find the answer to this question, please write a book and publish it!! Not being funny. I really wish they would just give a starting load and let me figure how high to go based on my chronograph, accuracy and any pressure signs.

 

[AJC1]

Does the bullet exactly match each other or the one your loading. Weight is one factor but bearing surface is another. Factors like being a hollow base can also change load data. Clear explication can not be made off subjective data... some loads have been reduced as measurements have increased in accuracy and a full pressure curve can be evaluated not just an instantaneous peak pressure derived by a crushed copper cup.

 

[BBarn]

... I really wish they would just give a starting load and let me figure how high to go based on my chronograph, accuracy and any pressure signs.

Not likely since that is generally not a safe practice. Every one of the several reloading manuals I recall reading says not to exceed their published maximums. Of course you should stop short in the presence of high pressure signs, but that doesn't mean you are safe to exceed their maximums if you don't see pressure signs or achieve the velocity you may expect.

Mr. Watson explained the disparity in the Speer/Lyman data.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

When I first start loading Unique in my 44mag I was using the layman manual and the Speer manual (which matches the Alliant site). The Layman manual starts at 10grs of Unique for a 240gr Linotype. The Speer manual and Alliant site has a starting charge of 6.5 grain and a max load of 7.0 for a 240gr LSWC. The Alliant site has a 250 grain lead (Keith load) starting at 11 grains, normally you use less powder for heavier bullets. My first loads I started with 6.5 grains, worked up to 6.7grains. Felt really soft, I'm shooting these out of a Redhawk with a 7" barrel, 54oz. So I moved up to 8.00 grains and tried 8.5. Both seemed like nice moderate loads when I shot them and I've been using 8.5 grains since 2017. Dropped back to 8 grains to start preserving powder.

Any idea on why the disparity in the load data?

---
Well, I did notice some key "buzz words" in your description which I take as clues... but I can't answer for sure not being one of the authors of the data you're quoting.

Firstly, Lyman makes reloading gear, not bullets or powder, so they're going to quote loads for their casting customers. Linotype is hard stuff compared to swaged lead so Lyman is quoting data for a hard cast bullet capable of hunting anything on four legs in North America - because that's what their customers want. Secondly, Alliant makes powder, not bullets or reloading gear, so they want their customers to use their powder putting together loads that are known to be accurate - a load that burns more powder is a good load but not if it isn't manageable or accurate. Third, you mentioned "Keith load" and that just says, "More cow bell" in big loud letters so it makes sense anything "Keith load"ed is going to need more powder. Finally, Speer makes soft lead bullets and jacketed bullets. Jacketed cost more - a lot more - and there just has to be something to justify that cost other than, "It won't lead your bore," which no properly lubed and coated lead bullet does anyway, unless its soft as fish sinkers like Speer's 240gr. LSWC is made to be. Bigger loads with more ka-boom are just the ticket to sell jacketed over cast. Speer's starting load of Unique for their 210gr. GDHP is 10.5 grains. 10.5 vs. 6.5 and there's only 30 grains difference in bullet weight. That's not real significant weight difference but a massive difference in powder.

The answer to your question is, because they have different interests. That's why just looking at bullet weight while ignoring composition and all other factors can be a little misleading.

 

[derek45]

10grs UNIQUE with a 240-250gr SWC makes a nice accurate warm load.

If you want more velocity, I'd recommend 2400, H110/win296 or even Blue Dot.

 

[.308 Norma]

The Speer manual and Alliant site has a starting charge of 6.5 grain and a max load of 7.0 for a 240gr LSWC.

That's why just looking at bullet weight while ignoring composition and all other factors can be a little misleading.

What GeoDudeFlorida said.
gonoles_1980, take another look at your Speer manual. My newest Speer manual (#14) lists 6.5 to 7.0 grs. of Unique behind Speer's own 240gr swagged LSWCs. But it also lists 9.2 to 10.3 grs. of Unique behind their own 240gr jacketed bullets.
Bullet weight isn't all that counts - not even when you're talking about bullets from the same company. Composition and shape matter too.

 

[BBarn]

The astute reader of the Speer manual will note their comment that the swaged lead bullet loads are held below about 1000 fps to prevent leading.

 

[Riomouse911]

As was stated above, a 240 gr SWC over 9.5 gr to 10.0 gr Unique create .44 Mag loads that let you know you’ve touched off a magnum without beating you (or your gun) to death. I have an ammo can full of 9.5 gr loads with lead and coated SWC bullets, to me they’re just right .

Stay safe.

 

[forrest r]

The speer and alliant data is the same simply because they use the same bullet. They are both owned by the same corporation don't use the competitors bullets for testing/load data.

Alliant data took a turn for the worse in 2008 when they switched platforms in their manuals. I like to refer to 2003/2005 as the last of the great alliant reloading manuals.
http://castpics.net/LoadData/Freebies/RM/Alliant.html

Lyman is in the cast bullet business & is an excellent place to start when looking for reloading data with cast bullets.

FWIW:
Your 8.5gr load in the +/- 18,000psi range & the 8.0gr load is a high end 44spl load.

 

[Typetwelve]

Like many others are saying, 9-9.5g of UNQ under a 240g lead projectile gives you a nice "light" magnum load. I've taken those UNQ charges over 11g, but it's really not worth it. As people are saying, I prefer H110 or 2400 when I want the hot stuff.

 

[gonoles_1980]

Thanks for the responses, I use the eXtreme 240 LSWC for my unique loads, those are a little harder cast than the speer bullets. I do use speer LSWC for my wife's light load 44spls.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Thanks for the responses, I use the eXtreme 240 LSWC for my unique loads, those are a little harder cast than the speer bullets. I do use speer LSWC for my wife's light load 44spls.

---
I use them too, for my "Callahan Practice Loads" in the SBH and Contender 10" Bull barrel... you know, "A light special. In [a magnum sized] gun it gives me better control - less recoil - than a .357Magnum with wadcutters..."

 

[mavracer]

I can tell you that the swaged Hornady bullets @1200 fps in a Marlin is a hard lesson in cleaning lead out of the barrel and what a keyhole looks like after 2 rounds.
I bet the Speer bullet would do the same.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

I can tell you that the swaged Hornady bullets @1200 fps in a Marlin is a hard lesson in cleaning lead out of the barrel and what a keyhole looks like after 2 rounds.
I bet the Speer bullet would do the same.

Try 14gr. of 2400. Gets just past 850fps in my Ruger M77/44. Makes for a nice target load/plinker.

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

 

[Typetwelve]

View attachment 971957

Lord Humungus will grant you safe passage through the California wastes for one cylinder full of 44 magnum...

 

[mavracer]

Try 14gr. of 2400. Gets just past 850fps in my Ruger M77/44. Makes for a nice target load/plinker.

That was a lifetime ago. I really never liked 2400 for midrange I can use just a little harder bullet and 1/2 that much unique.
Now I mostly shoot powder coated about the only ones I still use swaged is hollow base wadcutters in 38.

 

[Typetwelve]

That was a lifetime ago. I really never liked 2400 for midrange I can use just a little harder bullet and 1/2 that much unique.
Now I mostly shoot powder coated about the only ones I still use swaged is hollow base wadcutters in 38.

I only use 2400 for the hot-boys...in mid loads it makes an awful mess.

Now...2400 under a 180g XTP...that's one fire spitting round.

 

[derek45]

max load H110 with a 180gr XTP

 

[Keyfer 55]

max load H110 with a 180gr XTP

View attachment 972010

H110 use to say on the back" this powder not for the faint of heart "

 

[GooseGestapo]

Unique is, well, .....
shotshells, to handgun, to rifle loads. Mild to WILD!

Different bullets, different uses, different load levels. Unique has it covered.
My first shotshells from a 20ga Lee handloader, used Unique with a provided dipper. From that, I progressed to .38 target loads with Lee loader, and quickly to .357mag.. Then a .30/30 and cast bullets.
I’ve even killed deer and pigs with loads loaded with Unique, won PPC matches with ammo loaded with Unique.

I’ve shot thousands of 255gr KEITH SWC’s and 7.5 or 10.0gr of Unique. Also it’s analog Universal. Buy it in 8lb caddy’s.
There are specific powders for specific loads that are better, but there is only one Unique IMO.

Others have illuminated the difference between bullet types and suitable loads. Unique is able to bridge the gaps in applications. ie: mild to wild!
It’s the definition and poster child for a flexible powder.
Yeah, at low pressures it can leave unburned granules, or ash, but at higher pressures it’s VERY clean. It does leave a bit of graphite smudge, but that’s one of its secrets to its accuracy. (Bullseye,too).

 

[GeoDudeFlorida]

Unique is, well, .....
shotshells, to handgun, to rifle loads. Mild to WILD!

Different bullets, different uses, different load levels. Unique has it covered.
My first shotshells from a 20ga Lee handloader, used Unique with a provided dipper. From that, I progressed to .38 target loads with Lee loader, and quickly to .357mag.. Then a .30/30 and cast bullets.
I’ve even killed deer and pigs with loads loaded with Unique, won PPC matches with ammo loaded with Unique.

I’ve shot thousands of 255gr KEITH SWC’s and 7.5 or 10.0gr of Unique. Also it’s analog Universal. Buy it in 8lb caddy’s.
There are specific powders for specific loads that are better, but there is only one Unique IMO.

Others have illuminated the difference between bullet types and suitable loads. Unique is able to bridge the gaps in applications. ie: mild to wild!
It’s the definition and poster child for a flexible powder.
Yeah, at low pressures it can leave unburned granules, or ash, but at higher pressures it’s VERY clean. It does leave a bit of graphite smudge, but that’s one of its secrets to its accuracy. (Bullseye,too).

Unique is universal, but Universal is not unique.

 

[Fatelvis]

If I'm just punching paper, 8grns of Unique is perfect for accuracy and I can shoot it all afternoon. IMO, No need to go faster unless youre hunting big stuff, or you LIKE recoil.