Why the 870 Express hate?

[benellimax4]

I can't tell you how many times I have heard,

"The Wingmaster is a great gun. Stay away from the Express. They are garbage."

I own four 870 Express 12g shotguns I purchased within the last 6 months. Two are HD and two are hunting guns. They all have the new laminate wood stocks. After I cleaned the barrels properly, they run flawlessly.

I did some research and then went in to handle a Wingmaster last week. The Wingmaster is nice. It is very smooth. The wood is beautiful. And, the blued finish is nice. It is definitely a nice gun.

But, I guess I don't see how the lack of these things makes the Express garbage. I could make the case that the polymer trigger guard on the Express is better, the chrome bolt is of questionable value, the Express will become nearly as smooth in operation with continued use, and that the MIM extractor will last just as long as the machined extractor.

I feel like the 870 Express has been the most gun for the money ($300) I have ever purchased. Some people spend that much money on a flashlight.

 

[Liberty1776]

All I can say is - through my personal experience with one - it would rust on a humid day. (got that concept from another High Road member, and it sure is accurate) Maybe the new ones don't have that issue, but in 40+ years of gun ownership I've never owned another gun that would rust even with a coat of oil on it.

 

[pctech]

benellimax4,

extraction issues are very common with the 870 express platform. very rough machine work in the chamber area is quite common. after a failed trip back to the factory under warranty, Remington finally sent me a new barrel for my 870. problem resolved.

 

[DPris]

The Express versions are not junk, but they also are not the equal of the Wingmaster or police guns.

Rust, chambers, extraction, and occasional feeding issues are the end result of Remington's efforts to make a cheaper version of the gun.

You may have noticed it yourself, if you haven't keep an eye on the shotgun sections of various gun forums.

When you see a thread title along the lines of "Problems With New 870", 9.5 times out of 10 the gun will be an Express model.
If that doesn't answer your question, only personal experience of your own will.

I'll say it again- Remington did not develop the Express guns to be better, they built them to be cheaper.

They're not all problematic, you just have to decide how much money you want to spend & how much you want to gamble in considering the purchase of a new 870.
Denis

Add: The MIM extractors are reportedly NOT holding up as well as the forged versions. Edges round off quicker.

 

[eazyrider]

My six shot mag tube only holds five rounds most of the time. Brand new from the factory, never fired. The mag tube is just, well lets say it leaves much to be desired. So yea, I guess I'll jump on that express hate bandwagon.

 

[krazykeny]

Because they are cheap made Rustomatics..

 

[Frozen North]

I just don't get it! Everyone I know has at least one, and no one has any problems with them. I can't remember when mine were cleaned last, I don't think my waterfowl junker has ever been wiped down! No rust, no problems with anything!

I have seen a Mossy 500 come apart and a Browning BPS take a chunk out of a guys hand, but I have never seen or heard of a problem with a 870 Express. If the hate was true, I think I would have seen some of it first hand by now.

IMO, they are the best econo grade shotgun on the planet.

Ha! I thought their finish was tough as nails!

Don't get me wrong, I seriously have no love for Remington... 710 and 597 were the worst guns I have ever owned, and the 710 was a constant rust problem.

 

[benellimax4]

True to my screen name, I also own Benelli M1s and M2s.

Whether it is my Benellis or the 870 Express, when I wipe the gun down after I take it out, the cleaning cloth is brown. They both seem to behave in the same way regarding surface rust.

I always use Boeshield on the externals of both guns. That seems to help.

Regarding the MIM extractor, will the machined extractor work as a replacement? It is a 60 second drop in replacement and I think they are about $10 at Brownells.

 

[DPris]

Yes.
Denis

 

[Strahley]

I never knew of any chronic 870 Express problems until I opened this thread

 

[stevolene]

me neither, I had a short barrell 12 gauge express magnum I traded for a P85 ruger, been kicking myself ever since

 

[JohnBT]

There have been problems with the Expresses over the years. I started looking at them when my uncle won one in late '80s at a volunteer fire department raffle. I bought one in 1993. It was on sale for $199. Nearly 2 decades later they're not much more, so costs were cut somewhere.

So yes, there have been some problems with them from time to time.

 

[Sniderman]

Hate is a terrible word.

I dont hold any hate for anything including the Express,
Shoot whatever makes you happy!
I do, however own two Wingmasters,

 

[Dave McCracken]

Over the last couple years, I've made it a habit to handle and shoot every Express I've come across at the range. Total, between 25 and 30, almost all 12 gauges. Some had been shot the first time that day.

I've checked the smoothness of the shuck, reliability and ability to hit a few targets.

Zero probs, zero rust. All could have been smoother, and like the little 20 gauge Express here, will improve with use.

As for rust, when the directions in the manual about pre shoot lubing are followed, it seems to be a non issue.

As for sticky extraction, some chambers benefit from a 5 minute polish with 4/0 steel wool and a variable speed drill.

Use of steel based economy grade ammo is not helpful either. Stick to brass bases.

As for MIM extractors, if I have to stick a new one in every 40K rounds, so be it. I expect to replace small parts on a lot of things. My GM gets a new mainspring every 20K. My k frames get tightened up by a decent smith every 5-8K rounds.

Are there problems with Expresses? Sure, but it's confined to a small minority.

Some Expresses just need smarter owners.

I'll repeat an offer I made last year....

If you have an Express that's giving you problems, meet me at PGC Trap and Skeet Center near Beltsville, MD. I'll either fix it within 30 minutes to your satisfaction or buy it for $150 unless it's been both abused and neglected, then $100.

Cash.

That's a better deal than you'll get on a trade in.

Since the offer was first made, I've neither had to fix nor buy any Expresses.....

 

[Kingcreek]

I've had an earlier 870 express magnum for years with no issues at all, no complaints. I recently went over a new one belonging to a new shooter. We cleaned, lubed, instructed and shot and cleaned again and I wasn't disappointed in anything about it. I neither saw or experienced any of the problems I hear about.

 

[Andrewsky]

Generally the ones who complain about poor parts quality are talkers, not shooters.

I have a Wingmaster 12 ga from the 80's and a new Express. Neither is smoother than the other, and the Express is perfectly reliable.

 

[JohnBT]

That '93 Express I mentioned earlier came out of the box with a nearly thumb-sized spot on the stock that was stuck to the styrofoam box. Let me rephrase that, it came out of the box with part of the box stuck to the spot my cheek touched.

The finish must not have been dry when they packed it. I eventually covered that spot of bare white wood with some shoe polish colors after a couple of different kinds of wood stain failed to stick.

It was duck season, so I shot it instead of sending it back like Remington wanted. They would not send me or sell me a touch-up container of finish. Nope.

John

 

[Rail Driver]

I loved mine, though I had to wipe off surface rust quite often and it was a bit front heavy with the vent rib barrel. The action was slick as snot, and very robust though. Never had a problem shooting even the heaviest loads and slugs. The weight really soaked up a lot of recoil.

 

[NoobCannon]

I had an 870 Express when I was learning the way of the gun. Ran box after box of everything I could find(I have this weird obsession with oddball shotshells). Wal-Mart Econo-box, Mil-Spec Buckshot, Rifled slugs, you name it. Never faltered once. Went boom every time. Rocked me like a Hurricane, but that made me want to shoot it even more. I earned my first purple shoulder on that shotgun.

But, finances got tough, and the old leadspreader had to go. I got an H&R Pardner Pump to replace it, and it's a quality shotgun in its own right, and I wouldn't sell it no matter what, but she won't replace that big, black, 870 Express.

 

[Al Thompson]

I think the rust issue is an individual issue. Mine rusted and I fixed that with Krylon. Two factors - one, it's humid here and, two, my sweat is much more acidic than 20 years back.

 

[Virginian]

There have been issues with some Expresses. It seems every one gets drug out on every forum and beat to death. I have not heard of one that Remington did not make right, at their expense, provided the owner didn't try several do-it-your-self butchering jobs first. If you are willing to take a chance on the inconvenience, you can save some money.
I do not know what their percentage of problems guns are, but they sell so many it is probably not all that bad.

 

[Frozen North]

And there are those who would prefer their toilet seat made of powder coated tool steel.... Some will never be happy with a plastic pistol or an 870 Express. Some will resent those of us who are happy with ugly cheap stuff just because it goes bang and hits what we aim at.

I just pulled my all black 870 Express Magnum out of the safe and wiped it with a white cloth. I found some dirt, residue, and a bit of blood, but not one trace of rust.

 

[Al Thompson]

Dude. You live in the frozen north. D) Things are a bit different down here. Winter was in January, spring was two weeks long. Summer is here.....

 

[spyder1911]

My stock 28" 870 express is not very pretty or very smooth or draw any attention at the local trap range.

But after out shooting many $1k+ at our local trap range it comes down to the fact that it spits out lead just as well.

I have shot mine side by side with a wingmaster and that was a much nicer and smoother gun but not worth the difference in money IMHO.


Edit-
I shoot the cheapest steel hulled shells I can find and I have no problems with extraction or feeding.

I think a lot of people baby or short stroke the gun. 870s, at least mine, need to be cycled with significant force.

 

[BBroadside]

Dave McCracken, I like your spirit. At first when I read your post, I thought, "McCracken's nuts. Nobody lives in Montana!" This is what is called skimming and best not to be done when the topic is SHOTGUNS. Apologies to the Old Line State.

I have not had any rust problems with my 870 Express BUT we are pretty dry in Maine, except during the rain. It's been in my dank basement, and we got two inches of water after a particularly bad storm. Still no rust - because I have it protected by both a heating rod and the Bullfrog. There are a couple of guns in my safe that would break my heart if they rusted away, so I don't mind the cheap Remington playing canary in the coalmine.

So tell me, wise men, how do I know if I need a new extractor? Do new extractors damage my shells (make them no good for reloads) or are we talking extraction failures (stovepipes? something gnarly?)? Right now I am happy with Mr. EconoRemington because every failure I have had has been my fault (seriously, have you ever loaded a shell backwards? while the rest of the trapshooters are watching you? ... least I didn't point it at anyone trying to clear...).

If I have trouble I'll probably go the route of replacing parts while I am saving up for a Wingmaster. The furniture on a couple of Wingmasters I have seen is just sweet.