Why the continuing ammo shortage?

[lobo9er]

I just finished loading 1,250 rounds of .45 ACP with bullets I cast.

reloading sounds like the way to go. regardless of my three circular arguments

 

[iScream]

True. So accusing them of a crime (which gouging can be) is irresponsible and potentially libelous.



I can turn that around and tell you: "While I understand that prices are higher then before, and many people failed to foresee this coming, those things bother me far less than people who brazenly accuse retailers of being immoral and gouging for setting market-clearing prices without having a centilla of a clue regarding basic economic principles. I think it behooves the members of THR to ensure that hyped up charges of gouging are met with rational discussions of the economics involved so they can make their own decision."

Fair enough?

I think the main difference between us is that I don't come into the discussion with the idea that anyone using the word gouging on this board doesn't understand anything about economics. I would bet that the majority of people using the term understand that there is nothing crimimal about what some retailers are doing to profit from the current situation and that most have at least a basic understanding of supply and demand. I haven't seen a single post remotely suggesting some type of government regulation is needed.

What bothers you so badly about the word gouging? Is there another word you would prefer people use to express their frustration?

-Chris

 

[oneounceload]

side note 2% of the worlds populations controls 50% of the worlds wealth.

More wealth envy, Lobo? Man, every post has hatred for folks who make a profit. Sounds more like YOU are mad because YOU didn't set up to reload or buy enough prior to shortages in the supply chain......

 

[preachnhunt]

I didn't buy ammo beforehand either but could you PLEASE spell the word manufacturers?

 

[Owen]

we really don't know where all of the bail out money went. Publicly anyhow. And would it surprise you if there was some unethical handling of funds? Would it surprise you if some manufactures would help out furthering the "shortage" and "the better buy it now might not be able to tomarrow" that went on in the shooting community.

believe me, cerberus knows where it went, and a decent forensic accountant can track it.

The other thing you are talking about...intentionally withholding supply to keep prices high? If one or two companies do it, its called handing your market share to your competitors. If an entire industry does it, its called collusion or price fixing, which is illegal.

 

[happygeek]

Meanwhile those of use who bought our first gun in Jan 09 are still wondering what exactly is a fair market value for the following:
22LR
9x19mm
45 ACP
5.56x45mm
7.62x51mm

The best price I've gotten on those are
22LR 5 cents a round
9mm 20 cents
45 38 cents
5.56 40 cents
7.62 60 cents

I had to buy in bulk to get that price, and the 7.62 I got for that price was surplus out of South Africa or Portugal or somewhere. It came in battle packs of 140 rounds (7 boxes of 20 rounds each inside the pack).

I honestly have no idea what the price of those calibers was prior to The Great Run on the Gunstore. I have seen the prices coming down a tad lately, but I've been buying in enough bulk I only have to buy every 3 or 4 months. I've also been shooting a LOT of 22LR to save money on rifle practice.

 

[atomd]

I reload the stuff I shoot the most of. That's the way to go.

During my shopping in the last month, it doesn't look like there's much of an ammo shortage any more (for me at least). I've found tons of 9mm, .380, 40S&W, .45ACP, .223, 22LR, 10MM, etc etc. If it stays this way I won't have any problems.

What's interesting is that I've seen some brands that I haven't seen before pop up in stores to fill the demand. Lots of imported stuff that's selling for a few bucks less per box is starting to appear. What's good about this surge in sales is that we might start seeing better selections and greater supplies in the stores where we normally shop. The prices are starting to come back down too. I remember seeing piles of .380 for $25/50 a few months ago. Sometimes even higher. Now I see them for $16.99-$18.99. Be patient...things are getting better.

 

[lobo9er]

I dont think I am being hateful just throwing some things out there is all.

believe me, cerberus knows where it went, and a decent forensic accountant can track it.

better tell them to hire one then lol because publicly they say they are unsure of a portion of the money.

Just a possibility that a Manufacturer (sorry about my spelling) or two could be helping along the ammo crisis. Is that offensive? Do you think price fixing has never happened before? not to say it is here. I admitted my original postS got a little leaky I can get a little excited at times. But the fact is the company that owns some of these titans of the gun world have done some less than "free market system" maybe even unethical business practice in the past, like being involved in the bail outs, so its not that crazy to think the smaller companies they own may also do something or have done something that some may see as unethical. Your welcome to think that is crazy. The fact is no one knows exactly why theres still a shortage deal going on for certain (I think its coming to a close my self), so this is just as valid an idea or post as the next. I dont just type either I do do research and check my facts, infact I will call myself out if I say something is fact and it turns out to be not.

 

[lobo9er]

I can turn that around and tell you: "While I understand that prices are higher then before, and many people failed to foresee this coming, those things bother me far less than people who brazenly accuse retailers of being immoral and gouging for setting market-clearing prices without having a centilla of a clue regarding basic economic principles. I think it behooves the members of THR to ensure that hyped up charges of gouging are met with rational discussions of the economics involved so they can make their own decision."

Fair enough?

Sure fair enough. This is all based on opinion anyway. I myself saw a shift in supply at the last walmart I stopped at. stocked up pretty good I might add, will it last? we'll see I hope so. By no means do I hope theres some crazy with holding supply thing or even crazier people that hold office saying things to help create a buying craze of a product.

 

[atomd]

I can turn that around and tell you: "While I understand that prices are higher then before, and many people failed to foresee this coming, those things bother me far less than people who brazenly accuse retailers of being immoral and gouging for setting market-clearing prices without having a centilla of a clue regarding basic economic principles. I think it behooves the members of THR to ensure that hyped up charges of gouging are met with rational discussions of the economics involved so they can make their own decision."

Fair enough?

Absolutely fair. Although as a consumer I can turn around and tell you that when I went to a website and saw Magpul Pmags for $59.99 each, I thought to myself "wow....this website has horrible prices"...and now I don't even bother going there anymore. That's the beauty of capitalism. When you do great things, capitalism will reward you. When you do stupid things, it will come back and kick you in the butt....unless you are Goldman Sachs or someone else who has close ties to the Democrats in congress or the Obama administration..

 

[iScream]

OK, I guess the shortage may be my fault.

Actually, the WalMart I posted earlier in this thread still had a bunch of 9mm when I stopped by about 45 minutes ago. I only bought 4 boxes, mostly cause that's about all I can carry on the motorcycle.

I think I'm going to build the stash up to about 5000 total rounds of 9mm, then just replace what I shoot until I get a new reloading press set up.

-Chris

 

[emerson]

Meanwhile those of use who bought our first gun in Jan 09 are still wondering what exactly is a fair market value for the following:
22LR
9x19mm
45 ACP
5.56x45mm
7.62x51mm

The best price I've gotten on those are
22LR 5 cents a round
9mm 20 cents
45 38 cents
5.56 40 cents
7.62 60 cents

Depends on the quality you are buying. Seems a couple years ago in the Portland, Metro area you could get bulk (Federal, Remy Golden Bullets, Wildcat, etc) 22LR for ~$.025 - $.030 per round. You would pay a little more for CCI mini-mags.

The price sounds about right for 9mm.

I don't know about the other calibers. I don't shoot 45, and haven't been shopping for 7.62x39 or 5.56x45 since the very earliest part of the decade.

 

[Motodeficient]

iscream, don't they sell the 100 rnd WWB packs at your walmart? Your stash makes my 2000 rnd 9mm stash look pretty small. Glad to know I am not the only sick one here though.

 

[bababooey32]

What bothers you so badly about the word gouging? Is there another word you would prefer people use to express their frustration?

Sorry iScream. Words have meaning. In some cases their meaning is very specific and has alot of implications. Like "gouging". It is illegal and incredibly rare. So for posters to be tossing the term around casually bothers me. If people are frustrated that prices are higher then they used to be or higher than they want, say THAT. But accusing retailers of gouging is gratuitous and slanderous.

I think the main difference between us is that I don't come into the discussion with the idea that anyone using the word gouging on this board doesn't understand anything about economics.

OK. I do. The first things people learn in economics are supply and demand curves and how they interact. It becomes quickly evident through simple case study and understanding the theory that "gouging" is not present in everyday life in this country. Characterizing a large retailer of it shows a basic lack of understanding of those fundamental principles. I'm not asking for PhD level work here. Just the basics. The fact that there is even argument over "gouging" proves my point.

Edited to add:

BTW - Some people get their panties in a twist over "Clip" vs "Magazine" or "assault weapon" vs "Assault rifle". I guess this is my vice. I guess, now more than ever, I feel the need to defend the free market system and educate (if I may be so bold) people who misunderstand it. I believe most people really do prefer the system, but many do have a misunderstanding of how it works (or should work).

Edited again to add:

Holy crow iScream...That is one heck of a (neatly stacked) stash!!!!

 

[iScream]

Bababooey,

The best analogy I can come up with is people using "stole" in casual conversation. As in "He stole that gun" when someone gets a great deal on a purchase. Obviously stealing is always illegal but we don't assume people don’t know that when they use the term in this way. I think throwing around the word gouging is basically the same thing. Really just my opinion since I can’t see into their heads though…

I stacked that ammo up just so I could take a picture before finding a place to keep it all, plus the 30,000 or so rounds of 22LR I've accumulated.

-Chris

 

[bababooey32]

iScream, you may be right, however the context in which they are using the term suggests to me that they really believe they are being "wronged".

In any case, it looks like I better start "hoarding" from all the "gougers" before my "clips" for my "assaut weapons" run dry!

 

[happygeek]

Depends on the quality you are buying. Seems a couple years ago in the Portland, Metro area you could get bulk (Federal, Remy Golden Bullets, Wildcat, etc) 22LR for ~$.025 - $.030 per round. You would pay a little more for CCI mini-mags.

The price sounds about right for 9mm.

I've been buying whatever the store has in bulk. The 9mm I've gotten for 20 cents a round or just under that was a 500 round box of Brown Bear and a 1,000 round box of BVAC. The 22LR was a 5,000 round box of Aguila. The 7.62 NATO has been all sorts of milsurplus, and some BVAC .308. The 45 ACP I got was a 1,000 round box of Magtech, which actually doesn't seem like a bad brand at all to me. Then again, my M1A, Beretta 92FS, and Sig 1911 haven't choked on any of this stuff. The 22LR Aguila on the other hand has been running very dirty in my tacticool 22LR. I have to clean that thing religiously, then oil it just right to get it to run for 50 to 100 rounds without a jam. After 200 to 300 rounds, it's pretty well gummed up.

Oh, and the 5.56 was a 500 round box of .223 PMC. My Sig 556 has been having a few issues but I think that's due to it not liking all my STANAG mags.

 

[iScream]

Some of you guys need to get to the WalMarts in North DFW. I was out of town for 5 days and the store in Lewisville still had a whole bunch of Federal 9mm when I got back. They had some WWB 9mm tonight as well. The Highland Village/Flower Mound store had Federal tonight as well.

I've added another 1000 rounds since yesterday. That means I'm over my 5000 round target by 250 so I don't really plan to buy any more. Go get you some!

I may start stocking up on .45 or .223 soon since I plan to buy a gun chambered in one caliber or the other sometime in 2010.

-Chris