Why the continuing ammo shortage?

[WoofersInc]

The local Wal-Marts are still not getting stocked but we had a gun show here in Vegas over the weekend and the ammo dealers that were there had everything in stock
Miwall, who goes to a lot of shows had Wolf ammo in 223 and 7.62x39 for $199 a case. I picked up 500 rounds of Wolf 308 for $139.
They had ammo back like it was the old days and the prices are definitely coming down.

 

[Motodeficient]

Picked up 200 rnds of remington UMC 115g JHP at walmart this weekend for $25.97/100. Its cheap JHP but I still like to buy it whenever they have it (which is rarely). But they always have a few boxes of 115g 9mm WWB FMJ on the shelf for $21.97/100.

 

[mustang_steve]

Nice find on the UMC JHP. I really like that ammo.

 

[mgregg85]

My dad works with a guy who goes to walmart once or twice a day and looks for ammo, he buys all kinds of pistol ammo, even in a couple of calibers that he doesn't own yet. He has around 2,000 rounds of ammo at home that he doesn't even plan on using. Before walmart started limiting the amount you could buy he would buy up all that they had in whatever caliber.

Its because of jerks like that that the regular shooters have a hard time finding ammo. I haven't seen .45 acp ammo sold locally in over a year(except for defense ammo, pricey stuff). I sold and traded my .380 ACP pistols because I couldn't shoot them anymore. I used to shoot my .45 about once a month or so, maybe 100 rounds. I haven't shot it in about 9 months when I ran out of .45 ball ammo.

 

[lobo9er]

By definition it cannot be gouging if people are buying it

i disagree water was selling for like 10-15 bucks a bottle at woodstock awhile a back that was gouging and it was being bought and sold. People are going to shoot and buy ammo even if its over priced. i saw a guy selling 1000 rounds of wolf 7.62x39 for 400 dollars that was gouging i think and people were buying. Also some people are new to the shooting sports and dont know that that price is way high. Thats taking advantage of people in my book. Lets not pretend that gun and ammo manufactures are only looking out for us. they are trying to make a buck just like big oil and big auto companies and some dont mind ripping us off. Not all but I would say some of the big gun companies loved that obama took office and couldn't wait to come up with a reason to raise prices.

 

[bababooey32]

lobo9er

You conveniently left out the rest of my statement:

By definition it cannot be gouging if people are buying it and there are other alternatives.

If the guy at Woodstock was selling water for $15/a bottle and there were three other vendors around him selling for $5, then he's not gouging, he's just optimistic.

People are going to shoot and buy ammo even if its over priced.

The very definition (from an economics perspective) is that it is priced too high to sell. That it is being sold is ipso facto proof that it is NOT overpriced.

i saw a guy selling 1000 rounds of wolf 7.62x39 for 400 dollars that was gouging i think and people were buying

I'm sorry Lobo, but the term "gouging" has a specific meaning, and you are using it incorrectly. The price was obviously too high for you, but there were plenty of people who thought it was a good enough price (given how badly they wanted, the urgency they had and the means they have to purchase it).

Also some people are new to the shooting sports and dont know that that price is way high.

Ignorance is different than gouging.

Lets not pretend that gun and ammo manufactures are only looking out for us.

Hopefully they are not looking put for us at all. AS a corporation, their sole duty is to their shareholders/owners. It turns out they can best accoomplish that by providing goods and services at a price that maximizes their revenue. Setting prices "too high" is unlikely to do that. Instead, they set a price at a point where supply and demand are in equilibrium and they make lots of money. In turn, we get a decent product at a decent price (based on the current market, not on one user's - Lobo9er's - opinion of what a good price is).

they are trying to make a buck just like big oil and big auto companies and some dont mind ripping us off.

Good grief. You forgot Wal- Mart and Haliburton.

Not all but I would say some of the big gun companies loved that obama took office and couldn't wait to come up with a reason to raise prices.

I wish I read through tthe whole post before starting to comment. I feel like I just wasted 3 minutes.

 

[lobo9er]

McCain was way more likely to reinstate so called "ASSAULT WEAPON BAN" he said he supported it. McCain was very "wishy washy" on the subject. Obama danced around the question and if I recall correctly only his hench men actually said it. Democrats paid for the last "ASSAULT WEAPON BAN" at the ballot box. They probably won't make that mystake again. (PROBABLY) And yet gun sales went through the roof. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ammo shortage rumors and hype were started by a manufacture or two. Always follow the money trail, who stood to gain from a "ammo shortage". I know we didn't. I would be willing to bet some of these companies have made more money they ever had and may ever will.

 

[lobo9er]

If the guy at Woodstock was selling water for $15/a bottle and there were three other vendors around him selling for $5, then he's not gouging, he's just optimistic.

umm 5 dollars is gouging on water and there weren't others selling water. in fact i checked my facts i exgerrated it was 4 dollars and that was the price. that is a rip off and people had no other option

 

[oneounceload]

Sorry lobo - those instances of people WILLING paying for NON-ESSENTIAL items in a free market is NOT gouging. It's called Supply and Demand, econ 101, and it happens everywhere. Folks who fail to properly plan and get caught in a short supply scenario - no matter the items, are themselves to blame for having to pay higher prices

 

[bababooey32]

it was 4 dollars and that was the price. that is a rip off and people had no other option

That is WHY it was more expensive. These folks COULD have walked a distance and found it cheaper, but for the luxury of NOT having to do that, you must pay a premium. Immediacy is costly.

Besides $4 for water at a concert venue is actually quite reasonable. If it's too much for you, there are always water fountains.

 

[KJS]

McCain was way more likely to reinstate so called "ASSAULT WEAPON BAN" he said he supported it. McCain was very "wishy washy" on the subject. Obama danced around the question and if I recall correctly only his hench men actually said it. Democrats paid for the last "ASSAULT WEAPON BAN" at the ballot box. They probably won't make that mystake again. (PROBABLY) And yet gun sales went through the roof. I wouldn't be surprised if some of the ammo shortage rumors and hype were started by a manufacture or two. Always follow the money trail, who stood to gain from a "ammo shortage". I know we didn't. I would be willing to bet some of these companies have made more money they ever had and may ever will.

Obama early in his campaign sure didn't dance around the issue of so-called "assault weapons." In the spring of 2008 Obama's web site specifically stated his desire to bring back the Clinton-era ban. I did notice that any reference to "assault weapons" magically disappeared from his site as the election grew closer. I'm guessing he didn't want to offend moderate voters who might worry that if this guy wants to ban a particular type of gun then when is he coming to confiscate or severely restrict the defensive handgun they keep at home or the guns they hunt with?

Obama's site gave the standard line of BS about how "I support the American tradition of hunting" or something to that effect. Of course, he made no mention of any right to self-defense. I gather owning a gun to hunt Bambi tops your right to own a weapon to kill someone who's trying to kill you. Ironically, a man who doesn't appear to believe you have a right to self-defense is surrounded by heavily-armed Secret Service agents.

Many on the left try to make it sound like McCain is some raging pro-gunner. I believe GOA only gives him a C-. Admittedly, GOA is one tough grader, with Ron Paul being the only guy who manages to get an A+ as far as I know. McCain's campaign site stated that he did not support bringing back the "assault weapons" ban, though one can surely wonder how much of that was his true feelings and how much of that was to help win a few more votes from some "gun nuts" who don't vote (though I bet virtually everyone on this board votes and did not vote for Obama).

 

[lobo9er]

sorry bababooey 4 dollars in the early 90's was NOT resonable. And they were not able to leave the venue NO RE ENTRY.

 

[lobo9er]

McCain's campaign site stated that he did not support bringing back the "assault weapons" ban

Hes a flip flopper I saw him twice say he supported it.

 

[bababooey32]

Sorry Lobo, but Water has been selling for that price since you saw it in the 90's, thus defining $4 as a good price.

I'll have to end our discussion there as you clearly have a fundamental misunderstanding of basic economic principles. The idea that any one person can define what a "reasonable" price is BETTER than the market as a whole is the same mentality that is leading us to this disastrous health care bill and is the VERY SAME mentality held by the president you seem to lament so much. :banghead:

 

[KJS]

Hes a flip flopper I saw him twice say he supported it.

I haven't followed McCain closely enough to know, but I'd trust you on that. The C- from GOA pretty much tells me that he's not at all firmly committed to gun right. Tough I bet Palin would have smacked him upside the head if he said such a thing with her in the room. While her lack of executive experience clearly helped him lose the election, I'd suspect she supports gun rights given that she actually uses gun (and not just for staged photo shoots).

 

[KJS]

I have a degree in finance and this ammo thing sure looks like an issue of supply and demand at work in the real world.

You can find places that have lower ammo prices (Walmart, for example) and they typically have little if any as their price was below market prices.

You can find places like Gander Mountain that typically have the largest selection in stock. One look at their vastly higher prices should tell you why. People don't feel compelled to strip shelves bare when prices are that high.

You're given a choice between higher price ammo that is actually there for you to buy, or you can pay lower prices for ammo that is on back order for months (or get lucky and find some at Walmart, where finding a box of what you want can feel a bit like hitting the lottery).

 

[lobo9er]

KJS i hear ya I searched the internet for a bit and found some good prices. I would like to think I am a froogle buyer who educates himself on products before i purchase.
Some of the major gun companies are owned by the likes of freedom group and cyribus (Smith and Wesson, Remington) who took huge bucks in the bail outs. So I dont trust them any more then chrysler or big oil. (essentially they are owned by the same people) Just billionares and millionares making big jack off the Backs of us, the people.

As for the president I lament hes no different from his distant cousin the last president. Huge spending and terrible at managing war.

 

[iScream]

You know, I understand what the corect definition of gouging is and I know the term isn't used properly around here at times. That bothers me far less than the few people who think it's their job to get into every thread where they see it and start jumping on people.

This is supply and demand and there are cheaper places to get ammo. That means it is a positive thing when members of this online community point out that some sellers are charging much higher prices than others. That's how we as consumers can bring prices back down. If we communicate where to get ammo at decent prices and what shops to avoid, it will help us all since there should be fewer people willing to pay the higher prices.

-Chris

 

[lobo9er]

iScream
your right for the most part, but some of the throwing around the term gouging is venting. Most I am around on a regular basis could care less about ammo prices.

One last point on the water which has nothing to do with this I know. Not allowing people to leave and selling water at an out rageous price is not a fair market situation and not thus making a defintion of much of anything other than ripping people off in 1994.

Anyhow walmart had a good supply of just about everything yesterday. bought some thunder bolts while they had them.

 

[EddieNFL]

After Hurricane Ivan a fellow up north had an idea to make money. He rented a Uhaul and bought all the generators he could find and drove to Florida. He was selling them for twice what he paid. people were lining up to buy them. Someone complained, he was arrested and the generators were confiscated.

End result: No one got a generator. I'm not seeing a winner here. I wish the .gov would stop looking out for me.

 

[SharpsDressedMan]

"After Hurricane Ivan a fellow up north had an idea to make money. He rented a Uhaul and bought all the generators he could find and drove to Florida. He was selling them for twice what he paid. people were lining up to buy them. Someone complained, he was arrested and the generators were confiscated. "
I guess I'm dense. What law did this guy break with the generators?

 

[EddieNFL]

Florida has gouging laws. I'm not certain, but they may apply only during emergency situations.

 

[oneounceload]

Eddie - that is correct and it is only on certain items like ice, water, gasoline and plywood...

Just billionares and millionares making big jack off the Backs of us, the people.

Lobo - are you serious with this type of comment? And just who do you think those millionaires and billionaires are? Just people, who worked hard and earned it. If you don't use your head to make a living, you'll use your back - a wise man once told me. And just what is this "big jack" you're talking about? A profit?

Some folks really need to study supply and demand free market economics..

 

[lobo9er]

yes I am. the same people that took billions in bail out money own some of the bigger Firearm companies. Remington, Bushmaster, Marlin, HR, and Chrysler are all owned by freedom group. I am pretty sure smith and wesson is in there too.

 

[lobo9er]

Obama administration and bush's gave them alot of $ so i am sure they are aquinted. That part is fact. Now this part is speculation on my part. Maybe someone had an idea that threat of an assault weapon ban or ammo crisis may drum up some business. I am probably wrong but I dont think that is that out there of an idea. Now if I sold snow cones and my friend started a rumor snow was melting forever and theres no way to make it cuz that may become illegal I might stand to make some money I'd say. People might want to buy one to put in the freezer to enjoy next year.