Why the Left hates Self-Defense

[PAshooter]

I must admit I've "skimmed" much of this thread, so please forgive me if I've missed something, but I'm intrigued by your beliefs freakazoid. As a Christian (in training) I think the faith-based community you seem to envision is a wonderful utopian ideal. Problem is, it has never worked out that well in practice... even in the time of the early Church.

I feel (and note the use of the word... it's an emotional, spiritual reaction) that smallish communities like this, composed of like-minded individuals guided by Christian principles could succeed. Your mention of the Amish is a perfect example of this. I'd love to be part of such a community. But a nation based on these ideals would never survive in today's world.

Even the Amish only survive today in their isolated enclaves because the might of a central government (and Constitutional guarantees) protect their way of life.

I'm convinced a much better (i.e. workable) approach is the Constitutional Republic our Founding Fathers thought they had created. It protects the rights of groups such as those you envision, as well as many other divergent philosophies. Trouble is, the ones running the show these days have completely lost sight of this original intent. They pander for votes in order to stay in power... and in the process trample whatever rights get in their way. That drives us toward Socialism (State control of all wealth and distribution of same as the state sees fit) and totalitarianism (outlaw every act and behavior that doesn't further the State's goal).

I'm rambling, I know. My personal belief is that we need to dissolve the government and start again with First Principles... the Constitution (as ammended) and little more.

Yeah... like that'll happen

 

[freakazoid]

Even the Amish only survive today in their isolated enclaves because the might of a central government (and Constitutional guarantees) protect their way of life.

I believe that it would survive without it.

I'm rambling, I know. My personal belief is that we need to dissolve the government and start again with First Principles... the Constitution (as ammended) and little more.

I'm all for that,

Yeah... like that'll happen

lol,

 

[Turkey Creek]

Somehow I can't get over the idea that those who choose to die rather than fight to save themselves or anyone else, think that they are in a higher level of civilization than those that choose to fight- And what's worse is that they really really like this idea because it elevates themselves in their own minds irregardless of any other circumstance- Basically a holier than thou, better than thou attitude, which IMHO borders on a mental illness-

On a personal level, if this is the way they choose to be, no skin off my nose- The problem lies in the fact that the majority of this kind wants me to follow their rules because I am a dolt and a barbarian- They feel it is their duty to make me see the light- Sorry, but if you leave me alone I'll be more than happy to ignor you and let you go on your way, but the second you try to impose your will on me we have major problems- Somehow this "better" person cannot seem to live and let live- I must live in their world no matter what- Ever notice how the "enlightened" have zero tolerance for anyone who doesn't fall in step with them?-

 

[PAshooter]

I believe that it would survive without it.

I do not. I think they would be overrun by the evil forces in the world.

It takes force to overcome evil... and they are not willing to exert that force.

Believe me, I have great respect for their beliefs and their way of life. But I ask you, why are there not thriving Amish communities in other parts of the world?

I guess I find myself aligned more with the Spartans... some of us must be willing to die for freedom in order for others to enjoy that freedom.

 

[freakazoid]

I do not. I think they would be overrun by the evil forces in the world.

It takes force to overcome evil... and they are not willing to exert that force.

Not if there are individuals/militias willing to protect them. But anyways, the Amish is just one example, no reason to think that other communes would go unarmed.

 

[PAshooter]

Not if there are individuals/militias willing to protect them.

I pray that I would have the courage to be a part of that militia. We're not that far apart, freakazoid.

Peace.

 

[SuperNaut]

I'd love to say that my friends on the left do not fit the generalization of the OP, but sadly many do.

That said, I refuse to write them off, and I refuse to sit on my ass and do nothing. The cheap and easy political characterizations in this country have got to stop. We play into the hands of the manipulative and powerful when we bicker amongst ourselves over trivialities.

The Siren Song of safety in the bosom of the State is strong and has been persistently sounding for decades. It will take a long time and a lot of work to overcome. The time for blame is over, it is time for action. I think I'm up to the challenge, how about you?



Also it is quite possible to be philosophically sympathetic to ideas that are not practical. I am quite sympathetic to anarcho-individualist ideas, but my experience has shown me that The Founders struck a good balance between individual freedom and social order. So I am an anarchist at heart but a Jeffersonian-Style Constitutionalist in practice.

 

[freakazoid]

The time for blame is over, it is time for action. I think I'm up to the challenge, how about you?

Yup. Actually at the last Knob Creek Machine Gun Shoot I had handed out papers with different quotes about firearm ownership, the role of the government, freedom, etc. out. Most of the quotes was from Jefferson but there where a few other people as well I think. Not much but just trying to raise an awareness about what Americas Founding Fathers had originally planned, compared to what it is today. Many thanks to Oleg Volk for allowing me to use some of the pictures from this wonderful site,

but my experience has shown me that The Founders struck a good balance between individual freedom and social order

To bad it no longer represents what they had envisioned.
To quote Benjamin Franklin,
Outside Independence Hall when the Constitutional Convention of 1787 ended, Mrs. Powel of Philadelphia asked Benjamin Franklin, "Well, Doctor, what have we got, a republic or a monarchy?" With no hesitation whatsoever, Franklin responded, "A republic, if you can keep it."

full of awesome quotes, http://quotes.liberty-tree.ca/quotes_by/benjamin+franklin

 

[Archer1945]

I have to agree with Bryan Williams about the Socialist agenda. Unfortunately I can't remember the person's name, just that he was the leader of the Communist Party in the US for many years. He said, and this is almost a direct quote, "Americans will never accept socialism if it is called that, however if we call it "liberalism" they will turn the country socialist of their own free will. Guess what people who should know better have let the news media get away with redifining socialism/communism as "liberalism".

And for you who keep saying it is the "LIBERALS" who are anti-gun I'd suggest you take time and study some history. The most LIBERAL document ever written is The Constitution of the United States of America. The men who wrote it were anything but CONSERVATIVE. If they had been the conservative, the way a good many people on this forum define the term, we would not have the Constitution and we would probably still be part of the British Empire. Actually the United States as we know it would not exist, part of it would be English, part French, part Spanish and part Russian.

 

[freakazoid]

Communist Party in the US

Which one? Bob Akavian is the chairman of the RCP. But most of the leftists at the forum that I hang out in don't think much of them.

 

[gunsmith]

I didn't read the whole thread so I do not know if they were mentioned, but the "Spartacus Leauge"(SIC?) are Trotsky and pretty solidly pro gun.
I remember in the 1980's they were the only ones (in NYC) saying that subway workers have the right to armed self defense when a Transit worker shot a mugger and got arrested....nope...sorry...no links to show you.

 

[beaucoup ammo]

"Ah, here lays the ugly truth about the left my friends, they hate self-defense..."

That is woefully, tragically and embarrassingly wrong. The brush used to paint that stroke must be a mile wide. Having been in broadcasing for 35 years, I had the great pleasure to discuss the topic of self defense with General Joe Foss, Charlton Heston, Chuck Yeager (the General is still active and living in the Texas Hill Country) and others with a considerably more realistic grasp on reality that the person responsible for the above quote seems to possess.

This isn't totally dismiss the man's article or purpose..far from it. However, this type of statement only leaves one open for a blind side "left" from any anti who's half awake, IMO.

It's never good to speak in such flip generalities as this. You'll never win an argument much less a convert.

There's a photo of "Howard Beale" (I'm mad as hell...") on his web site from "Network." I agree with Finney's character in the film. I get so mad at times, the thought of opening the window and yelling out the famous phrase is very tempting!

The internet works quite well, also. But, when you commit an opinion for public consumption it's not a bad idea to avoid statements that defeat your intent and make you look inept.

When we go up against the anti gun left we should consider what effect our effort will have and how we'll be perceived, IMO.

 

[Wayne D]

Somehow I can't get over the idea that those who choose to die rather than fight to save themselves or anyone else, think that they are in a higher level of civilization than those that choose to fight- And what's worse is that they really really like this idea because it elevates themselves in their own minds irregardless of any other circumstance- Basically a holier than thou, better than thou attitude, which IMHO borders on a mental illness-

I think you have summed it up perfectly.

 

[Baba Louie]

There are liberals.

There are conservatives.

There are pacifists.

...Isolationists.

...Collectivists.

...Anarchists.

...Morally Superior.

...Cowards.

...the Weak and Meek.

...Bullies and Warmongers.

That's why as a child, I decided to fight back.

The broad paintbrush of saying the "Left" hates self defense is "too" broad a brush for me to use... even if it is true at times. But harrygunner's above quote fits me to a "tee", even if I fall into all of the above classifications (and I would surmise that each of us, at some point in our lives, have and will fall into each group for a brief moment or two).

Well, I really really try hard not to fall into the "Bully/Warmonger" classification, but I do remember saying something about needing to send our troops into Iraq to fight... but that's another topic for another day.