Quantcast
  1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Why was the 40s&w invented?

Discussion in 'Handguns: Autoloaders' started by Praxidike, Jul 14, 2014.

Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.
  1. Mainsail

    Mainsail Member

    Joined:
    Dec 16, 2005
    Messages:
    3,079
    Location:
    Washington
    Part of the FBI’s rationale for not choosing the 9mm or .45ACP was that both rounds had been around a while and neither was likely to see much improvement. In other words, they were already as good as they were ever going to be. Aside from some minor tweaks, it was and is a true statement. Given the high pressure and lack of room inside the case, the .40S&W is all it will ever be (aside from some minor tweaks here and there) as well.

    I don’t currently own any .40s at all, nor do I have any desire to. I have a couple 9mms, a few .45s and three 10mm handguns (G20SF, G29SF, and S&W 1076). I will likely get a barrel to shoot .40 from the G29, as I have found it’s a good idea to diversify calibers, especially during shortages (I remember when there was zero 9mm or .45 on the shelves, but plenty of .32 auto and .40S&W).
     
  2. Praxidike

    Praxidike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    461
    Y]ou write all thay yourself off the top of your head or copy paste? Either way, was a good read.
     
    Last edited: Jul 16, 2014
  3. Deltaboy1984

    Deltaboy1984 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 21, 2008
    Messages:
    6,369
    Location:
    Johnson County Texas
    The FBI 86 gunfight birthed it and I love it.
     
  4. tipoc

    tipoc Member

    Joined:
    Mar 9, 2006
    Messages:
    2,950
    Standard Catalog of S&W for the guns weights and birth dates and the account of the FBI contract. Ammo and Ballistics (Forker) for the ammo. A couple of web searches, Glock weight and capacity. the rest i remember. Though I can dig up the sources.

    Ammo companies eventually worked out the 147 gr. ammo problems. Part of the initial problem was the oal of the round.

    tipoc
     
  5. Big Shrek

    Big Shrek Member

    Joined:
    Mar 16, 2014
    Messages:
    261
    Location:
    Florida Panhandle
    Well, if you are going to get a 9mm, get a Calico.
    At least then you have enough rounds per mag to throw...
    (50 or 100 round mags, btw)
    Load on Sunday and shoot all month ;)
     
  6. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    15,102
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    Look into using 9mm barrel for your 40S&W Shield with 9mm magazine

    [YOUTUBE]-ItSsLwKQAk[/YOUTUBE]
     
  7. Praxidike

    Praxidike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    461
    Thanks but I already have. S&W no longer sells the barrels for the Shield. I was told by S&W customer service that the only way anyone can get a replacement 9mm barrel from them for now on was to send the entire firearm to them just so they can "install" the barrel themselves. They use to sell it, but now they do not.
     
  8. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    15,102
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    I think the popularity of people using 9mm barrel for 40M&P probably reduced the inventory of 9mm barrel to nothing and they were back-ordered for a while.

    Perhaps you can locate a barrel from vendors, online sales, etc.
     
    Last edited: Jul 17, 2014
  9. Praxidike

    Praxidike Member

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2013
    Messages:
    461
    They said they weren't selling them by themselves point blank. They have them, but won't sell them unless the entire (9mm) firearm is sent to them. At least that is what they told me. I and others on s&w forum have been unable to locate them anywhere else. Will have to wait until someone manufactures an aftermarket barrel.
     
  10. bds
    • Contributing Member

    bds Member

    Joined:
    Jan 10, 2010
    Messages:
    15,102
    Location:
    Northwest Coast
    I think at least one of the aftermarket barrel maker will step in and offer either 9mm replacement or 40-9 conversion barrel. So you may still be able to shoot both 9mm/40S&W with your Shield.

    This shooter's range test confirmed tighter shot groups with 9mm barrel over 40S&W barrel out of his Shield

    Shield 40-9 review Part 1 - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=flnFIzI6MIw

    [YOUTUBE]77sPO1i77D0[/YOUTUBE]
     
  11. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    And the winner is......

    This is why I say the .40Super is a winner. :D
    It feeds great(cycles), has a high KE level, is fast(1100-1200 fps), can hold several rounds like a .40S&W or .357sig, and it's very accurate(match grade).

    Poor marketing & a lack of support in the 1990s kept the .40Super from really going anywhere. :(
    It was lost in the .40 crowd; .400Corbon, .41AE, .40S&W, 10mm, etc.
     
  12. cougar1717

    cougar1717 Member

    Joined:
    Nov 19, 2007
    Messages:
    783
    Location:
    St. Louis, MO
    Everyone knows it was invented by an evil mastermind to:

    1. Anger 9mm and 45ACP purists
    2. Draw the ire of everyone who remotely likes the 10mm
    3. Make Gaston Glock a bajillionaire, and...
    4. impregnate as much brass as possible.
    5. Sow seeds of discontent between the military and LEO's
    6. Make both John Moses Browning and Elmer Keith simultaneously roll over in their graves
    7. Bait the unsuspecting into asking, "Which is the best - 9/40/ or 45?"
    8. Bait others who overhear the ensuing argument from #7 to yell "SHOT PLACEMENT!"
    9. Trick those who see advertisements for police trade-ins to continuously ask if it is going to be extinct in 10 years.
    10. Start never-ending arguments on internet forums

    Smart mastermind, indeed...
     
  13. mavracer

    mavracer Member

    Joined:
    Jan 9, 2007
    Messages:
    4,449
    Location:
    wichita
    Like there wasn't enough never ending arguments lol
     
  14. zoom6zoom

    zoom6zoom Member

    Joined:
    Apr 24, 2006
    Messages:
    2,908
    Location:
    Virginia
    I like calling the round the 10mm Kurz. Messes with peoples minds.
     
  15. agtman

    agtman Member

    Joined:
    Dec 31, 2002
    Messages:
    1,630
    Location:
    midwest
    Yep, the 10mm AUTO is the only L.E. service round that comes with its own government-mandated warning for end-users:

    motivator46fdd30941de0051d087f76546.jpg

    :what:

    "Oh, no, not the 10mm again.
    Is my WHAAAMMM-bulance here yet?"

    RSimmons.jpg

    :rolleyes:
     
  16. SDGlock23

    SDGlock23 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 1, 2005
    Messages:
    659
    Location:
    Kentucky
    The .40 is what the 10mm should have been from the start. There, that should ruffle a few feathers :)
     
  17. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    US military vs US sworn LE agencies.....

    How or when did the R&D of the 10mm/.40S&W create a riff between the US armed forces & US law enforcement? :confused:

    The USCG(which is a part of the US Department of Homeland Security) uses the SIG Sauer .40S&W DAK P229R. They have great results & even the US Secret Service went to the DAK P229R format in .357sig.

    I've heard mixed reports that the tier one/spec ops used Glock 23s & 22s in .40 a few times overseas with + results.
    I also heard the US Army pushed the most for .45acp sidearms but no service branch was against any T&E or research. I never heard that. Not in the 1980s, the 90s, the 2000s, or present. :uhoh:
     
  18. brutus51

    brutus51 Member

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2013
    Messages:
    191
    Only problem I have with either the 40S&W or 9MM is the short powder column. In 35 years of bullseye target shooting I've never seen a 9mm that can come close to a .45ACP in terms of MOA accuracy , not to be confused with minute of bad guy, Same holds true of 10mm vs. 40S&W and while I've never owned one the same holds true for the .38 super vs. 9mm. In my opinion shot placement trumps 17 rounds any day. Guess thats why I prefer a .45 colt revolver in places where things can chew on ya. :D
     
  19. Blade First

    Blade First Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    401
    Location:
    Free Republic of Tennessee
    "The 9mm is just as good as the 40 S&W and the 45 ACP they say."

    It's better when it's loaded as the .357SIG. After all, why not carry an autopistol loaded with 12 or more rounds of the functional equivalent of a .357Mag revolver round?

    Speed kills...as even Glock acknowledged when they deigned to load the round [still refusing to give credit to SIG for development] in their high-capacity pistols.

    Super fast, super flat shooting, highly accurate = proven street performance.
     
  20. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    I agree but.....

    The .357sig has a lot of +s but it's failed to draw in as many LE agencies and military units in recent years(compared to the 9x19mm).
    When major state agencies & PDs switch from .357sig to 9mm in large #s, there's a good reason. :rolleyes:
     
  21. Blade First

    Blade First Member

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    401
    Location:
    Free Republic of Tennessee
    "When major state agencies & PDs switch from .357sig to 9mm in large #s, there's a good reason."

    Well, the feds don't have to worry about general availability and cost of ammo...they have plenty of .357SIG to use.

    And sometimes, it's nothing more than politics. Local city PD recently switched from Glock 22s/23s to SIG P220s.
     
  22. Fiv3r

    Fiv3r Member

    Joined:
    Sep 30, 2009
    Messages:
    1,617
    Others have pointed out the origins of the round. I, for one, have been won over by the .40. I like the way it shoots, I like the energy it puts on target, I like how it was easy to find during the shortage.
     
  23. krimmie

    krimmie Member

    Joined:
    Jan 24, 2007
    Messages:
    309
    Location:
    Miami, Fl.
    +1 Fiv3r
     
  24. RustyShackelford

    RustyShackelford member

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2006
    Messages:
    4,020
    State regulations.....

    My state's div of licensing, which has regulatory authority over the security industry recently modified the semi auto pistol approvals. They added the .45acp & the .40 caliber(.40S&W). They had bills in recent years that included the 10mm & .357sig but in the latest security industry request, the 2014 bill only stated the .45acp & .40S&W.
    Industry officials & insiders said part of the change was because few gun owners/security officers used 10mm or .357sig. It was also hard to buy ammunition in some locations. The .40S&W and .45 were a lot easier to buy for armed officers or schools/agencies. ;)
     
  25. 420Stainless

    420Stainless Member

    Joined:
    Aug 15, 2005
    Messages:
    1,231
    Location:
    MS
    Its already been said, but it was because some believed 10mm was too much and 9mm was not enough. I don't believe either to be the case, but I still like the .40 S&W just fine. I think it gathers the most important characteristics from both - decent speed in medium weight bullets for use in a reasonably compact frame. The things it loses over those other two cartridges aren't very important to me.
     
Thread Status:
Not open for further replies.

Share This Page