Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
Keeping RKBA may require tolerance of the views others hold. Same as keeping other rights -- a small group is seldom able to keep their rights without the support of others. In return, they have to tolerate the others.
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Why we must win the culture war.
- Thread starter Oleg Volk
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SaintofKillers
Member
I agree that maybe a civil war of sorts is coming but its not going to be based on pro-RKBA, anti RKBA.
I believe its going to be based on those that want the govt. to take care of them and those that want to be left alone.
Example-Government run health care, social security, etc.
I believe its going to be based on those that want the govt. to take care of them and those that want to be left alone.
Example-Government run health care, social security, etc.
xd9fan
Member
To my mind, the only real way to forestall it is for the Feds to back down and leave the States their own powers again. People in Georgia don't want to live like those in CA, and vice versa. Trying to keep us under an increasingly powerful Federal gov't trying to force on lifestyle on everyone will end in tears eventually.
And the Feds backing down will never happen.
I believe its going to be based on those that want the govt. to take care of them and those that want to be left alone.
Example-Government run health care, social security, etc.
I agree with this......this split is more than anti vs pro gun.......sooner or later the ones paying for everything and the ones spending other peoples money....will fight.
longeyes
member
To tie this in with the 300 (movie) discussions, the valiant stand at Thermopylae really didn't achieve much. It wasn't until after Athens was evacuated, and subsequently captured and razed by the Persians that the Greeks all united. Even then they were outnumbered, and had to be very sneaky and use superior skill to win.
And as is the nature of western mankind ever since, it didn't last long before they were back fighting each other again. The nature of freedom is such that there will seldom be harmony. I've read that a common love does not bind men near as well as a common hatred.
Try imagining the course of history if Greek civilization had been annihilated by the Persians.
Titan6
member
Interesting. Very interesting. On the one hand scary that there are a number of people in this country who I have not met that feel so marginalized, disenfranchised and removed from their rights that they feel it may be neccesary to take up arms against the country. And on the other hand almost laughable in the context of reality.
Civil wars are not normally started as uprisings in a relatively free society where there are other options such as voting, free speech, peaceable assembly, petition for grievances, recall elections, functioning courts and the like. Even in a society where a large segement of the population has no rights whatsoever (say pre 1860 America) so long as there is a large majority middle class with freedoms an unorchestrated uprising is very unlikely.
Again on the other hand governments do start plenty of wars. Mostly when there is some kind of financial incentive at stake. Governments and government officials also start civil wars. These are the worst kind of wars because people are never so cruel as when they are fighting against someone who they feel should agree with them but does not. By branding someone a traitor or unpatriotic it is easy to excuse nearly any kind of heinous act that a person does to another person.
I don't know of any Federal government official that is advocating civil war. That whole loyalty oath thing kind of precludes that. Not saying there is not some kind of 5th column of like minded gun owners out there but seems unlikely that they would be able to build enough support to seriously challenge the power of even a medium sized city government. Unless it is something that the people of that city really want anyway.
'The main purpose of private weapons is to enable short-term survival of individuals while they try to win the culture war.'
I doubt you will find a consensus opinion on that. I think if I threw that out there to 95% of the gun owners I know they would start looking for the men in white coats with the big nets. The non gun owners when they stopped laughing (or pissing themselves if they figured you were for real) would probably be quite dismissive (or call the police). Sure there are a few that feel that way, probably more here on this forum than most places but if you went around outside this forum polling people you would probably get a lot of disagreement on the purpose of gun ownership and more than a few funny looks.
'Keeping RKBA may require tolerance of the views others hold. Same as keeping other rights -- a small group is seldom able to keep their rights without the support of others. In return, they have to tolerate the others.'
Hmmm, jump aboard my train and I will tolerate you. Not much of a battle cry there. Again might have some trouble building a consensus.
I think based on either the Parker case or all the leading candidates for president in both parties being solidly anti we will see the question answered in our life times.
Civil wars are not normally started as uprisings in a relatively free society where there are other options such as voting, free speech, peaceable assembly, petition for grievances, recall elections, functioning courts and the like. Even in a society where a large segement of the population has no rights whatsoever (say pre 1860 America) so long as there is a large majority middle class with freedoms an unorchestrated uprising is very unlikely.
Again on the other hand governments do start plenty of wars. Mostly when there is some kind of financial incentive at stake. Governments and government officials also start civil wars. These are the worst kind of wars because people are never so cruel as when they are fighting against someone who they feel should agree with them but does not. By branding someone a traitor or unpatriotic it is easy to excuse nearly any kind of heinous act that a person does to another person.
I don't know of any Federal government official that is advocating civil war. That whole loyalty oath thing kind of precludes that. Not saying there is not some kind of 5th column of like minded gun owners out there but seems unlikely that they would be able to build enough support to seriously challenge the power of even a medium sized city government. Unless it is something that the people of that city really want anyway.
'The main purpose of private weapons is to enable short-term survival of individuals while they try to win the culture war.'
I doubt you will find a consensus opinion on that. I think if I threw that out there to 95% of the gun owners I know they would start looking for the men in white coats with the big nets. The non gun owners when they stopped laughing (or pissing themselves if they figured you were for real) would probably be quite dismissive (or call the police). Sure there are a few that feel that way, probably more here on this forum than most places but if you went around outside this forum polling people you would probably get a lot of disagreement on the purpose of gun ownership and more than a few funny looks.
'Keeping RKBA may require tolerance of the views others hold. Same as keeping other rights -- a small group is seldom able to keep their rights without the support of others. In return, they have to tolerate the others.'
Hmmm, jump aboard my train and I will tolerate you. Not much of a battle cry there. Again might have some trouble building a consensus.
I think based on either the Parker case or all the leading candidates for president in both parties being solidly anti we will see the question answered in our life times.
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Lucky
Member
Not hard to imagine, probably would be similar to the Golden Hordes' multiple century occupation of what we know as Russia. Dull. Opression has a way of doing that.
Don't misunderstand, I'll take the constant turmoil of freedom any day of the week, I was just pointing out that you won't have eternal freedom, there will always be strife where there is freedom.
Besides, THOSE Persians were the Cradle of Civilization ones, who were much later conquered by Mohammed's zealots. They are the ones who gave birth to written laws, to cosmopolitan society, heck, they gave us writing itself, not only accounting but counting itself. Medicine, cosmopolitan society, curly beards, plants hanging from the ceiling, all tracing back to the Tigris and Euphrates.
And lest we forget, ah who am I kidding almost no-one knows this:
Democracy was a gift from a tyrant.
That's right, the Greeks were GIFTED democracy, by a generous tyrant.
Don't misunderstand, I'll take the constant turmoil of freedom any day of the week, I was just pointing out that you won't have eternal freedom, there will always be strife where there is freedom.
Besides, THOSE Persians were the Cradle of Civilization ones, who were much later conquered by Mohammed's zealots. They are the ones who gave birth to written laws, to cosmopolitan society, heck, they gave us writing itself, not only accounting but counting itself. Medicine, cosmopolitan society, curly beards, plants hanging from the ceiling, all tracing back to the Tigris and Euphrates.
And lest we forget, ah who am I kidding almost no-one knows this:
Democracy was a gift from a tyrant.
That's right, the Greeks were GIFTED democracy, by a generous tyrant.
Kaylee
Member
I agree that maybe a civil war of sorts is coming but its not going to be based on pro-RKBA, anti RKBA.
I believe its going to be based on those that want the govt. to take care of them and those that want to be left alone.
I agree RKBA won't be the primary issue should we have a CWII.
However, I do think that if (when?) the final flashpoint comes up, it very likely WILL be over weapons, just like Concord two hundred-some years ago.
-K
Stauble
Member
I don't think we're particularly close to it now.. but I can see it happening with a generation or two
suppose for a moment that hilary is elected president and obama is the vice president.
cbsbyte
Member
One has to be carreful using the phrase Culture war since it can be confused with the jingoistic BS attack from the right wing on liberals.
ConfuseUs
Member
Privately owning and using guns is unquestionably a trait of traditional American culture. The object of the gun banners is to extirpate or exterminate the civilian gun culture in America (and by extension, traditional American culture) because they feel that their cultural values are superior to our "barbaric and primitive" values. We, on the other hand, would like them to go away because our cultural values are superior to their "cringeing, helpless, and irresponsible" values. So Oleg is correct to say that we must own weapons in order to individually survive as members of a culture; our culture demands it. If we cease the personal ownership of firearms the gun culture will disappear. I don't see it as using weapons to assure individual survival however.
longeyes
member
I don't know of any Federal government official that is advocating civil war. That whole loyalty oath thing kind of precludes that. Not saying there is not some kind of 5th column of like minded gun owners out there but seems unlikely that they would be able to build enough support to seriously challenge the power of even a medium sized city government. Unless it is something that the people of that city really want anyway.
There's already a stealth civil war being waged by Government against loyalist Americans. Most of the combatants just haven't realized they are in a war yet.
The factions would then fratricide as they have after every revolution in history, with the most ruthless group likely winning control.
Yes. Reality is often much worse than the fantasy. That "most ruthless group" to emerge would, I'd wager, immediately go about disarming the other factions. All for good reasons, of course.
This isn't the same country that existed in the 18th century, nor can it be made to be.
K
There could be a civil war when it becomes apparent to the majority that the Medicare and SS entitlements are going to bankrupt the country within the next few decades. These systems above must change or they will disappear. The .gov is not going to be able to grow the economy , increase taxes or increase immigration enough to stop what is going to happen. When Atlas Shrugs it will be interesting. People in this country are NOT going to pay high taxes. Espically high progressive taxes cause they hit the REAL middle class not the Democratic middle class ie those on .gov assistance. People will just stop working. The tax payers will strike and all heck will hit the fan. Maybe the country will split. Maybe the socialists will win. Maybe the Capitalists. Who knows. I think the country will fall and split. And split in more than 2 ways. It may not be with total all out civil war but something is going to give and once it starts the big ripping sound of the country breaking up is going to be deafening.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Many of you underestimate the power of government run education (I dare not call them "public schools").
Culture war? They are indoctrinating entire generations, slowly and at times, brazenly with their rhetoric. And it works well.
Most of us, even those who try and take an anti to the range are not seeing a true representation of our population as we're (naturally) more often going to be around those who are like minded. Certain types of beliefs (like firearm ownership) tend to (not always) go along with, as a package, a number of other beliefs in the nature of government, law, rights and that extends to to other things, such as family, economics etc... Not always, but most of the time.
We've got our work cut out for us. They are churning out antis faster than we can convert them.
Converting an anti (I've done it) reminds me of the movie "The Matrix" ...where once they see the light of guns or firearm ownership, they feel lied to and they have a hard time at first trying to reconcile the fact that much of what they've been taught or led to believe is a lie on the subject of the gun culture.
This is why you cannot be heavy handed or abrasive with a convert. You cannot bombard them with too many politics. Just take them to the range and let them have fun. Trust them. Trust their own minds, their own reasoning and their IQ's to do the rest. 99.9% of the time they put the rest of the pieces together on their own. What you want to do is leave a lasting good experience. That experience, that FREEDOM will be like a the Raven tormenting them in a positive way in their minds for years to come.
Everytime an offensive comment is made about firearm ownership, or they come across a lie - they will reference that to their own personal experience. When that happens, there will be a puzzled look or something just won't register. Some will be offended, others who are not yet there will just not make sense of why someone would say such a thing about gun ownership.
Baby steps.
When someone owns a gun, now they have a horse in the race. They have something to lose. Someone who doesn't own a gun - doesn't have anything to lose (well, they really do, but they don't think they do).
If you've never held a gun, fired it or owned one. And you hear on the news from some demonic bigot "Gun owners are a threat to safety in America" ...it might sound abrasive, but they will pay no mind to it. If you own a gun, that will be a direct and personal insult. You will say to yourself "how am I a criminal?" ..."how am I a threat to society?" ..."how am I not safe?"
A trip to the range is like a seed. Plant the seed. Let the plant grow on its own. If they want more, or ask questions or seek more. Give it to them, answer the questions. Do not get political outside of the issue of guns.
Getting back to the school system. It is a major problem for us. The antis, through other political organizations, have seized the educational system and have placed their anti-gun, anti-self defense agenda into the curriculum. This is because being anti falls in line with a number of other political and social beliefs, such as pacifism, authoritarianism, collectivism (the state will protect you) etc .....
There is a bright side though. The government run education camps are becoming so outrageously dysfunctional, so far from teaching that they are failing to teach students how to learn, and thus their indoctrination is also failing to get across. I suppose it is better to learn nothing, than to learn concepts of evil.
Also, we always whine that the antis own the media. They do. They are the editors of newspapers, in charge of TV stations, they run magazines ...they're in charge and they spread their opinions. They are talented at using arguments and video skills to get their way. I must admit, they are much better than we are at presentation. Presentation goes a long way.
However, we have a golden opportunity. We have the chance of a lifetime - truly the chance of a lifetime. We have the internet.
Yes, the internet.
We've already used it to create awareness within our own ranks the likes of which have never been seen. We can now channel our energy and focus our power on legislation like never before. In the past, gun control went through before most of the politically active even knew about it.
But the internet is more than just that. We've made thousands of converts of people. People who were on our side, are even more 2nd Amendment purist due to being able to share and hear new ideas.
But there's one problem. As much as we have spread and grown and gotten the word out on all the various sites. It still doesn't reach those people who aren't looking for it.
Youtube.
This is truly a revolution. It is a revolution within the internet (which was a revolution in itself) that might prove to be MORE influential than the internet was.
Why?
Easy. We're in the era of quick and fast and the ear of sound bytes. Less people read, more people watch. Messages are more powerful when you see them, then when you read them (to most people).
Who wants to sift through pages of THR to learn? If they can see a 3 minute video on Youtube - they'll get much more.
What we need is the skill and talents of Oleg, but in a person who has those talents in producing videos. The video medium is huge, and best of all - the audience is larger than anything we've ever had access to.
There are Youtube WARS going on right now. Everyone who belongs to a "side" is slugging it out on Youtube. Whether it be a sports team rivalry, to nationalistic rivalry, to religious rivalry ...you name it - people are bringing the battle to Youtube. If there's something being argued over, it's on Youtube. With rebuttals, documentaries ...all of that.
We must not let the antis get to this medium first. We must beat them at their own game. Simple and cheap video editing software, a little bit of time, some creativity, and the TRUTH is all we need.
Imagine the thought-provoking statements that could be made if we could somehow create videos with the impact of an Oleg poster?
Don't underestimate this medium. It will get bigger. With fiber optic and broadband growing, video will become a greater part of the internet. This is only the beginning. Young people are a huge part of this aready. They love seeing videos, on things they would never be interested in, just to see something interesting, thought provoking, or that sets things strait (the truth).
This is the greatest gift we've got in a long time. I truly believe this is the tipping point. If we don't act now, with all the various tools we have - we'll lose. We're working against large institutions in this culture war who want to see firearm ownership become nothing more than a historical footnote.
Culture war? They are indoctrinating entire generations, slowly and at times, brazenly with their rhetoric. And it works well.
Most of us, even those who try and take an anti to the range are not seeing a true representation of our population as we're (naturally) more often going to be around those who are like minded. Certain types of beliefs (like firearm ownership) tend to (not always) go along with, as a package, a number of other beliefs in the nature of government, law, rights and that extends to to other things, such as family, economics etc... Not always, but most of the time.
We've got our work cut out for us. They are churning out antis faster than we can convert them.
Converting an anti (I've done it) reminds me of the movie "The Matrix" ...where once they see the light of guns or firearm ownership, they feel lied to and they have a hard time at first trying to reconcile the fact that much of what they've been taught or led to believe is a lie on the subject of the gun culture.
This is why you cannot be heavy handed or abrasive with a convert. You cannot bombard them with too many politics. Just take them to the range and let them have fun. Trust them. Trust their own minds, their own reasoning and their IQ's to do the rest. 99.9% of the time they put the rest of the pieces together on their own. What you want to do is leave a lasting good experience. That experience, that FREEDOM will be like a the Raven tormenting them in a positive way in their minds for years to come.
Everytime an offensive comment is made about firearm ownership, or they come across a lie - they will reference that to their own personal experience. When that happens, there will be a puzzled look or something just won't register. Some will be offended, others who are not yet there will just not make sense of why someone would say such a thing about gun ownership.
Baby steps.
When someone owns a gun, now they have a horse in the race. They have something to lose. Someone who doesn't own a gun - doesn't have anything to lose (well, they really do, but they don't think they do).
If you've never held a gun, fired it or owned one. And you hear on the news from some demonic bigot "Gun owners are a threat to safety in America" ...it might sound abrasive, but they will pay no mind to it. If you own a gun, that will be a direct and personal insult. You will say to yourself "how am I a criminal?" ..."how am I a threat to society?" ..."how am I not safe?"
A trip to the range is like a seed. Plant the seed. Let the plant grow on its own. If they want more, or ask questions or seek more. Give it to them, answer the questions. Do not get political outside of the issue of guns.
Getting back to the school system. It is a major problem for us. The antis, through other political organizations, have seized the educational system and have placed their anti-gun, anti-self defense agenda into the curriculum. This is because being anti falls in line with a number of other political and social beliefs, such as pacifism, authoritarianism, collectivism (the state will protect you) etc .....
There is a bright side though. The government run education camps are becoming so outrageously dysfunctional, so far from teaching that they are failing to teach students how to learn, and thus their indoctrination is also failing to get across. I suppose it is better to learn nothing, than to learn concepts of evil.
Also, we always whine that the antis own the media. They do. They are the editors of newspapers, in charge of TV stations, they run magazines ...they're in charge and they spread their opinions. They are talented at using arguments and video skills to get their way. I must admit, they are much better than we are at presentation. Presentation goes a long way.
However, we have a golden opportunity. We have the chance of a lifetime - truly the chance of a lifetime. We have the internet.
Yes, the internet.
We've already used it to create awareness within our own ranks the likes of which have never been seen. We can now channel our energy and focus our power on legislation like never before. In the past, gun control went through before most of the politically active even knew about it.
But the internet is more than just that. We've made thousands of converts of people. People who were on our side, are even more 2nd Amendment purist due to being able to share and hear new ideas.
But there's one problem. As much as we have spread and grown and gotten the word out on all the various sites. It still doesn't reach those people who aren't looking for it.
Youtube.
This is truly a revolution. It is a revolution within the internet (which was a revolution in itself) that might prove to be MORE influential than the internet was.
Why?
Easy. We're in the era of quick and fast and the ear of sound bytes. Less people read, more people watch. Messages are more powerful when you see them, then when you read them (to most people).
Who wants to sift through pages of THR to learn? If they can see a 3 minute video on Youtube - they'll get much more.
What we need is the skill and talents of Oleg, but in a person who has those talents in producing videos. The video medium is huge, and best of all - the audience is larger than anything we've ever had access to.
There are Youtube WARS going on right now. Everyone who belongs to a "side" is slugging it out on Youtube. Whether it be a sports team rivalry, to nationalistic rivalry, to religious rivalry ...you name it - people are bringing the battle to Youtube. If there's something being argued over, it's on Youtube. With rebuttals, documentaries ...all of that.
We must not let the antis get to this medium first. We must beat them at their own game. Simple and cheap video editing software, a little bit of time, some creativity, and the TRUTH is all we need.
Imagine the thought-provoking statements that could be made if we could somehow create videos with the impact of an Oleg poster?
Don't underestimate this medium. It will get bigger. With fiber optic and broadband growing, video will become a greater part of the internet. This is only the beginning. Young people are a huge part of this aready. They love seeing videos, on things they would never be interested in, just to see something interesting, thought provoking, or that sets things strait (the truth).
This is the greatest gift we've got in a long time. I truly believe this is the tipping point. If we don't act now, with all the various tools we have - we'll lose. We're working against large institutions in this culture war who want to see firearm ownership become nothing more than a historical footnote.
xd9fan
Member
The .gov is not going to be able to grow the economy , increase taxes or increase immigration enough to stop what is going to happen. When Atlas Shrugs it will be interesting. People in this country are NOT going to pay high taxes. Espically high progressive taxes cause they hit the REAL middle class not the Democratic middle class ie those on .gov assistance. People will just stop working. The tax payers will strike and all heck will hit the fan. Maybe the country will split. Maybe the socialists will win. Maybe the Capitalists. Who knows. I think the country will fall and split. And split in more than 2 ways. It may not be with total all out civil war but something is going to give and once it starts the big ripping sound of the country breaking up is going to be deafening.
I agree with you.
Capitalist are the only thing saving this Govt's (and not we know...regardless of party) unbelievable need to spend other people's money.
I also have even thought about Atlas Shrugging when it comes to the anti-family...read: a mom a dad and kids...attitude in the country since the boomers took over. Push hard enough and natural formed families will go elsewhere. Even Socrates said the basic unit of society is the family.
I would love the day when Tax players took their...yes their govt...they pay for it...BACK.........but as it stands....current tax players either have not seen what is coming or they are all on a steady drip of Propofol!!
it will get worse, the "me" generation boomers will spend more of our money before they die.
On a side note a couple people at work thinging social security is the bomb. I showed them that if they could save their SS tax money each year:
your cost 6.5% lets say $6000
your employer 6.5% $6000
so $12000 total
earns the market ave (which the last time I saw the numbers was 12% ave since 1926) and you save for 20 years
So $12000 starting and $12000 a year earning (average) 12% for 20 years...:
$1,119,965.62.
Do you see why Gen X is pissed with the boomers?:banghead:
Instead this is a "risky scheme"
also not taught in public schools
If things do capitulate in civil war, it won't be on pro or anti RKBA, it'll be on topics more central in focus to the majority of people. I personally think this will mean that the die-hard socialists and Atzlan invaders will join forces against most of 'middle America', and it's not going to matter if those middle Americans are Democrats or Republicans. As long as they're not supporting la revolution, they'll be considered 'tories'.
longeyes
member
We were advised above to take "Baby steps."
Would that we had the time. We don't. The whole house of cards could come crashing down, for any number of reasons, in the next few years. It's implausible to believe that slow and steady will win this race when you already have, pace another poster, a massive and relentless indoctrination machine consisting of the education and media and government establishments. We are told that the Internet can turn things around. Maybe. But there are already stirrings to censor the Internet and muzzle talk radio. YouTube? Possible. I'm interested in that avenue; I'm a professional videomaker myself. (Those who want to explore this further, contact me.)
My view is that all of it will turn on whether our military is for us or against us, and by us I don't mean just RKBA supporters but middle-class American citizens and taxpayers. I don't profess to know which way this will ultimately go. Frankly, I will be surprised if our current form of governance doesn't experience a grrevous rupture in the years ahead. Returning war vets will become a potent political force at some point. The Rubicon may be crossed.
Would that we had the time. We don't. The whole house of cards could come crashing down, for any number of reasons, in the next few years. It's implausible to believe that slow and steady will win this race when you already have, pace another poster, a massive and relentless indoctrination machine consisting of the education and media and government establishments. We are told that the Internet can turn things around. Maybe. But there are already stirrings to censor the Internet and muzzle talk radio. YouTube? Possible. I'm interested in that avenue; I'm a professional videomaker myself. (Those who want to explore this further, contact me.)
My view is that all of it will turn on whether our military is for us or against us, and by us I don't mean just RKBA supporters but middle-class American citizens and taxpayers. I don't profess to know which way this will ultimately go. Frankly, I will be surprised if our current form of governance doesn't experience a grrevous rupture in the years ahead. Returning war vets will become a potent political force at some point. The Rubicon may be crossed.
and along Caimlas' lines, they already post pictures of guillotines at DU when someone mentions a rich capatalist in a thread. Most there hate self-determination and acheivement.
I would expect the '08 election to be the deciding point - 1/2 the people one way or the other are going to be VERY pissed off.
I would expect the '08 election to be the deciding point - 1/2 the people one way or the other are going to be VERY pissed off.
Oleg Volk
Moderator Emeritus
What we need is the skill and talents of Oleg, but in a person who has those talents in producing videos. The video medium is huge, and best of all - the audience is larger than anything we've ever had access to.
I've posted some pro-RKBA videos on Youtube. In the next two months, I will make some commercial videos for practice, then try to raise funds for better video, sound and editing gear to produce more RKBA footage. I am using borrowed low-end gear now, worth probably $1K total. The Canadian videos with Katie were done with about $12K of gear and that was considered a shoestring budget.
The real issue with video is the time required to get it right. A three minute film may easily take 80 hours to script, storyboard, shoot, edit and distribute! That's if I do it to good amateur standards. To do a pro job for broadcast, I'd need gear that's out of my range in the wildest dreams AND pretty much full time devotion to the task, plus a division of labor. I don't have all the necessary skills, nor can I do several things at once as required.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
Oleg,
Contact the member "Longeyes" above - he is a professional in the field.
I didn't know you were already working on video. I don't know your background, but I love your work on your posters, and even more so the way you structure the ideas and the approach to getting messages across. This is like marketing almost.
I do have one idea to share. Videos on Youtube should be "professionally" made in terms of how the message gets across and how it flows. Doesn't have to have the ultimate in video quality, lighting, acting etc...those are irrelevant on the Youtube phenomenon. Certainly, presentation goes a long way, but I almost sense that something done too well will almost turn off the "underground" types that are looking for a personal message. Imagine for example, the NRA making a video and putting it on there. It would be ignored. It would be too static, too clean, too generic. It would look like it came from some professional lobbying organization and would feel rigid and be about as entertaining or attention getting as C-Span.
There's a fine line between being harsh/propagandist and being terse and hard-hitting.
I guess it depends on the specific task. For example, a video designed to convince the already pro-gun that the antis want them all could show Sarah Brady saying she supports the Second Amendment, and in the next frame or segment her on a MMM podium talking about a gun-free America. Short bits, few seconds each. Schumer saying he supports sportsman's rights, then him saying how they want to ban them all. Cater videos to the various groups - the antis, the fence riders, the pro-gunners who need to be rallied....It's easy to get the quotes, but where do you get the video/news bits from? That's the problem. Where do video professionals get these things from? Are there archives made for these purposes - is there a high cost? Copyright issues? I'm 100% ignorant on this subject.
What months or years of debate on forums takes, can be sent in 1 video across to a gun owner. All in 3 minutes. There are many who will never go to a forum or on the net to read about gun politics. The vast majority of gun owners in fact.
Whenever I try and go to the gun show to sell a gun I no longer want - I always bring up the internet to people interested in buying. I have the strong impression that most gun owners are not surfing forums or going to the sites that have our best message. But a Youtube video can be linked and E-mailed ....that gets across to even the most infrequent internet user.
No matter what, the main target will always be the youth. Let me see if I can get my thoughts across here. I believe what we have is a grandma.grandpa generation, a mom/dad, and a teenage/pre-teen generation working here.
Most of the driving force of our gun culture is grandma.grandpa age. They're not tech savvy, the're not keen on keeping up. The antis (I believe) make much better use of newer media and are more forward thinking. Their negative is, their base is not nearly as strong politically (most anti-gun people are not willing to PAY MONEY yearly ban guns). I've found that there's more anti-gunners than there are anti-gunners actively engaged (ie, memberships etc..)
Like the NRA in Florida - that's a political force to be reckoned with. They don't bother with cultural wars and all that stuff - they don't have to if you think about it. They're stomping on the antis and winning all the time. Winning using political tactics, lobbying efforts etc....
That's fine, and in that respect our movement is very effective. The old-guard is good at that. But while they're doing pretty well at playing the game, we're being ripped apart underneath on the culture war. What good is it to win a legislative battle, when the schools across America just graduated another class with a higher percentage of anti-gun minded teenagers?
Fortunately, when the anti's make a flash video/animation, they usually assign their most radical nutjobs and it ends up being over the top. Respect goes a long way in winning allies, and well - I'm happy they have no respect.
I can ask my friend (who makes small videos) to teach me a few things. Make a text-style video...which is kind of like a slideshow really. Not as good, but ok for a start I guess. The idea is to avoid having the person read anything. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I think it's just reality. Seeing/hearing - short to the point, hard hitting - that's what works on Youtube. Just like an Oleg poster - but transformed into video.
Contact the member "Longeyes" above - he is a professional in the field.
I didn't know you were already working on video. I don't know your background, but I love your work on your posters, and even more so the way you structure the ideas and the approach to getting messages across. This is like marketing almost.
I do have one idea to share. Videos on Youtube should be "professionally" made in terms of how the message gets across and how it flows. Doesn't have to have the ultimate in video quality, lighting, acting etc...those are irrelevant on the Youtube phenomenon. Certainly, presentation goes a long way, but I almost sense that something done too well will almost turn off the "underground" types that are looking for a personal message. Imagine for example, the NRA making a video and putting it on there. It would be ignored. It would be too static, too clean, too generic. It would look like it came from some professional lobbying organization and would feel rigid and be about as entertaining or attention getting as C-Span.
There's a fine line between being harsh/propagandist and being terse and hard-hitting.
I guess it depends on the specific task. For example, a video designed to convince the already pro-gun that the antis want them all could show Sarah Brady saying she supports the Second Amendment, and in the next frame or segment her on a MMM podium talking about a gun-free America. Short bits, few seconds each. Schumer saying he supports sportsman's rights, then him saying how they want to ban them all. Cater videos to the various groups - the antis, the fence riders, the pro-gunners who need to be rallied....It's easy to get the quotes, but where do you get the video/news bits from? That's the problem. Where do video professionals get these things from? Are there archives made for these purposes - is there a high cost? Copyright issues? I'm 100% ignorant on this subject.
What months or years of debate on forums takes, can be sent in 1 video across to a gun owner. All in 3 minutes. There are many who will never go to a forum or on the net to read about gun politics. The vast majority of gun owners in fact.
Whenever I try and go to the gun show to sell a gun I no longer want - I always bring up the internet to people interested in buying. I have the strong impression that most gun owners are not surfing forums or going to the sites that have our best message. But a Youtube video can be linked and E-mailed ....that gets across to even the most infrequent internet user.
No matter what, the main target will always be the youth. Let me see if I can get my thoughts across here. I believe what we have is a grandma.grandpa generation, a mom/dad, and a teenage/pre-teen generation working here.
Most of the driving force of our gun culture is grandma.grandpa age. They're not tech savvy, the're not keen on keeping up. The antis (I believe) make much better use of newer media and are more forward thinking. Their negative is, their base is not nearly as strong politically (most anti-gun people are not willing to PAY MONEY yearly ban guns). I've found that there's more anti-gunners than there are anti-gunners actively engaged (ie, memberships etc..)
Like the NRA in Florida - that's a political force to be reckoned with. They don't bother with cultural wars and all that stuff - they don't have to if you think about it. They're stomping on the antis and winning all the time. Winning using political tactics, lobbying efforts etc....
That's fine, and in that respect our movement is very effective. The old-guard is good at that. But while they're doing pretty well at playing the game, we're being ripped apart underneath on the culture war. What good is it to win a legislative battle, when the schools across America just graduated another class with a higher percentage of anti-gun minded teenagers?
Fortunately, when the anti's make a flash video/animation, they usually assign their most radical nutjobs and it ends up being over the top. Respect goes a long way in winning allies, and well - I'm happy they have no respect.
I can ask my friend (who makes small videos) to teach me a few things. Make a text-style video...which is kind of like a slideshow really. Not as good, but ok for a start I guess. The idea is to avoid having the person read anything. I don't mean that in an offensive way, I think it's just reality. Seeing/hearing - short to the point, hard hitting - that's what works on Youtube. Just like an Oleg poster - but transformed into video.
Don't Tread On Me
Member
We were advised above to take "Baby steps."
Longeyes, what I meant by baby steps was in the handing of an individual who is becoming sympathetic to the gun culture.
Not baby steps in terms of the whole movement.
Mike Harbour
Member
Lot of good....
...suggestions here. I've got one, too: take a look at what popular hobby magazines are doing. Publishers of RC cars, model trains, etc., use all sorts of mediums -- the Internet is just one -- to appeal to the audience.
Heck, if I knew any, I'd even volunteer to bring some young folks to the Great Falls (Montana) gun show this weekend; yeah, they might not be able to buy a rifle or pistol there, but they'd be immersed in the culture, as it were.
Mike Harbour
Texan by birth, Montanan by choice
...suggestions here. I've got one, too: take a look at what popular hobby magazines are doing. Publishers of RC cars, model trains, etc., use all sorts of mediums -- the Internet is just one -- to appeal to the audience.
Heck, if I knew any, I'd even volunteer to bring some young folks to the Great Falls (Montana) gun show this weekend; yeah, they might not be able to buy a rifle or pistol there, but they'd be immersed in the culture, as it were.
Mike Harbour
Texan by birth, Montanan by choice
ReadyontheRight
Member
This is extremely insightful Oleg. I fear that many who support RKBA are waiting to join the fight until it is too late.
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