Why's the Secret Service using the 5.7X28 P90

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The P90 is used by the USS because there is no other weapon that sized that packs the firepower and body armor penetration abilities that the P90 provides.
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MP7?

Yes I know it holds 10 fewer rounds, but it also reloads faster. It is smaller with the stock collapsed and a bit larger with it fully extended.

I predict this thread is locked soon given the name calling and childishness that has infected it of late.
 
I was wrong. but I was right earlier. 223 is more potent at 300yds than any 5.7mm round in any 5.7mm weapon at the muzzle.
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You're still wrong.

The 5.7x28mm velocities you just quoted came from a 12-inch barrel, not a 16-inch barrel. Even from the 12-inch barrel, the EA load is only about 80 joules short of the .223 velocities you quoted (a laughable 59 foot pounds). From the longer 16-inch barrel, that difference disappears completely.
 
Evil Monkey said:
I was wrong. but I was right earlier. 223 is more potent at 300yds than any 5.7mm round in any 5.7mm weapon at the muzzle.
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*facepalm*

40 grain 5.56 CORBON Blitzking fired at 3400 FPS has a velocity of 2332 fps at 300 yards.

You quoted, yourself, that the 40gr EA Protector has 2421fps when shot from the 5.7.

It's the same weight bullet, physics don't get bent because of what weapon or chunk of brass it's expelled from.
 
They used a 12-inch barrel for that test; try reading the description in the video.
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my bad, I thought it was a 16".

but it doesn't matter. We already know the 5.7mm especially coming out of a rifle of any kind is not going to penetrate deep enough from the ballistics tests we've seen.

So it doesn't matter if it's 500 or 900joules, the round sucks and cannot be relied upon to incapacitate a large male human aggressor. These rounds will easily lose energy and break apart when it hits the slightest obstacle in a home defense shooting for example, where you have dryboard, couches, railings, etc.

I have yet to see a 5.7mm round appropriate to use against hostile human beings.

40 grain 5.56 CORBON Blitzking fired at 3400 FPS has a velocity of 2332 fps at 300 yards.
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beautiful straw man argument.
 
*double facepalm*

double-facepalm.jpg

I give up. Some people just can't be reasoned with. Physics, is physics.

If you believe the 5.56 is effective and can deliver fatal wounds at and beyond 300 meters (which is an indisputable fact), then you by default believe the 5.7x28 is effective at and beyond 100 meters. It's the same bullet, and the same velocity. The difference is the ballistic curve hasn't had a chance to "set in" on a 5.7's .224 projectile at that range, so it is much flatter than that portion of a 5.56's ballistic trajectory within those velocity ranges.

The bullets impact the same. With the same effects.

But, go on, keep thinking the world is flat and the sun revolves around the earth, keep forwarding us to other message boards for "expert advice" - as if there isn't any experts to be found here on THR - and that a dentist should be a renowned ballistics expert.

I'll get on with my life just fine, thank you. :)
 
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my bad, I thought it was a 16".

but it doesn't matter.
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It renders your original statement utterly false (just like all your other statements), so yes, it does matter to those of us who are actually interested in the facts (obviously you aren't).



We already know the 5.7mm especially coming out of a rifle of any kind is not going to penetrate deep enough from the ballistics tests we've seen.
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Try reading the thread you're posting in; specifically, page four. There are numerous 5.7x28mm loads currently available that penetrate 12+ inches in ballistic gelatin. This random handload, for example, expanded and penetrated 14-15 inches in three tests done by Brassfetcher in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin:

shot0301.jpg


For comparison, EA's 5.7x28mm loads are pushing better bullets at higher velocities, as independently chronographed.
 
The smaller the round the more important the shot placement. Dont AR systems pride themselves on shot placement and volume accuracy?
 
This random handload, for example, expanded and penetrated 14-15 inches in three tests done by Brassfetcher in calibrated 10% ballistic gelatin
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the wound channel is pathetic. The only reason it penetrates that much is because it doesn't expand worth a damn. And when it does expand/yaw/frag, it doesn't penetrate worth a damn. Might as well shoot a 45fmj.

All I know so far is, if a person wants to buy a concealed carry pistol, stay the hell away from 5.7mm junk. They are more expensive than common handguns and they are under performers. They are also expensive to train with.

If a person wants a home defense rifle, there are much better options. Even 9mm, 40sw, 45acp PCC's are better than 5.7mm systems and again are cheaper to buy and train with.

5.7mm is just a fad for collectors. Or a toy to show off at the range. It's not to be taken seriously.
 
Evil Monkey said:
5.7mm is just a fad for collectors. Or a toy to show off at the range. It's not to be taken seriously.
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Not to be taken seriously? A toy?

Are you kidding me????

I would think there's some of our country's finest that were at Fort Hood, who'd fervently argue that point with you.
 
And when it does expand/yaw/frag, it doesn't penetrate worth a damn.
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Wrong again.

Actually, EA's 5.7x28mm Pro II load fired from a pistol barrel expands to a diameter of about 0.45 - 0.50 inches, which is similar to that of a 9x19mm JHP, at about 0.60 inches. The same load also meets the FBI penetration standard in calibrated ballistic gelatin:

http://www.eliteammunition.net/f/5.7x28mm_Elite_Ammunition_ProtecTOR_II.wmv

In fact, even .22 WMR, with a lighter 40-grain bullet, is capable of expanding to 0.48 inches and penetrating 9.2 inches:

http://www.brassfetcher.com/index_files/Page2548.htm

The aforementioned 5.7x28mm EA load is significantly heavier (50 grains) so it does the same thing with a superior penetration depth. The end result is performance that is virtually identical to a 9x19mm JHP.
 
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If you don't like the cartridge,don't buy it.I have a PS90 and I love it.I really have a hard time believing if someone is hit COM (or anywhere for that matter) they are gonna stop and say"Hey,was that a 5.7?"

The round will do just fine,thank you.
 
whatever dude. It doesn't matter. I will never be convinced that 5.7mm is adequate in any loading.
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If you're willfully ignorant, so be it. That's a problem with you, not the caliber.
 
"5.7mm is a poor performer and this thread has shown us so. "
Actually, I came to this thread with little knowledge of the FiveseveN. But after reading all 7 pages, I am considering buying one. The guys argueing for this cartridge have done a much better job laying out their case than the "This round SUCKS, I hate it, hate it, hate it" crowd.
 
I've been watching this thread with a great deal of interest since I've had a chance to shoot an FA P90 :D and was thinking about getting a semi version to SBR. Based on the evidence presented here it's definitely getting added to my wish list. As for the still ongoing arguments:

whatever dude. It doesn't matter. I will never be convinced that 5.7mm is adequate in any loading.
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Don't feed the trolls.
 
I have not been shown in this thread that 5.7mm is a better performer terminally than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm can deal with partitions equally or better than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm ammo/systems are worth the price of admission compared to 9mm, 40sw, 45acp.

You can believe any fairytale non-sense regarding the 5.7mm. I'll stick to the real world.
 
I have not been shown in this thread that 5.7mm is a better performer terminally than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm can deal with partitions equally or better than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm ammo/systems are worth the price of admission compared to 9mm, 40sw, 45acp.

You can believe any fairytale non-sense regarding the 5.7mm. I'll stick to the real world.
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Lets say for sake of argument that it is near in performance to 9mm. Lets face it the difference in pistol caliber performance is rather small. And plenty folks love the 5.56 for 600m shots where the remaining energy is very questionable on paper.

And consider the fact that MP5 clones are expensive, many of questionable quality, reliable bullpup 5.56 are practically unavailable.

Maybe the PS90 isn't a bad choice for inside defense and outside to 25m or so.

I mean the design of the weapon is IMHO is highly neutered because of the outlawed ammo and the outlawed select fire, but there aren't many choices out there for civilians as far as a small sub-carbine like this?

I would pick colt commando any day, but vs a semi MP5 clone maybe this is a decent choice.

And one day ammo with decent power will be available to civilians at a decent price? I think that is the real issue here, lack of value in the ammo available for the civilian market?
 
Evil Monkey said:
I have not been shown in this thread that 5.7mm is a better performer terminally than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm can deal with partitions equally or better than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.

I have not been shown that 5.7mm ammo/systems are worth the price of admission compared to 9mm, 40sw, 45acp.

You can believe any fairytale non-sense regarding the 5.7mm. I'll stick to the real world.
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It sounds as though he doesn't have anything more to add to the thread.
 
I have not been shown in this thread that 5.7mm is a better performer terminally than 9mm, 40sw, and 45acp.
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The 5.7x28mm need not be a better performer terminally than any of those calibers. Its other attributes (recoil, weight, capacity, penetration, etc) make it superior.
 
Somewhat related to the OP...

Does anyone have any decent references for other agencies that are currently using the P90 platform?
 
Girodin said:
MP7?

Yes I know it holds 10 fewer rounds, but it also reloads faster. It is smaller with the stock collapsed and a bit larger with it fully extended.

I predict this thread is locked soon given the name calling and childishness that has infected it of late.
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I completely forgot about that gun. A guy on M4C has seen one used in Iraq and said it works pretty good against bad guys if you put a burst on them.
 
It sounds as though he doesn't have anything more to add to the thread.
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what's the point? The information needed is not being laid on the table, because it doesn't exist.

Its other attributes (recoil, weight, capacity, penetration, etc
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Really? We already covered this and it's BS.

I gain nothing by sitting here trying to convince you that 5.7mm sucks and that you shouldn't use it, and that is not my intent. You can use whatever you want.

But don't come here and feed us BS information, because these three things you can't prove:

1. equal or better terminal performance compared to the 3 major pistol rounds.
2. equal or better partition defeating capability compared to the 3 major pistol rounds.
3. monetary worth of 5.7mm systems compared to well established systems.
 
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