WI: need young, attractive females

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I applaud your efforts to raise money for a worthwhile cause, I believe most warm blooded American males can see the benefit of haveing ladies at the booth, at my age, 62, I assure you that you are on the right track, nothing like the warm smile of a lovely lady to encourage sales. I, like yourself understand that a warm smile is only reconigition of your existance, but I find that I appreciate that more as I age. Women are such beautiful creatures I enjoy being around one when possible. Good luck on your project. x
 
Nah, but you are coming off as a bit of the "kill all men, women are being oppressed" type.
Click to expand...

Wow. That really hurts. I'll immediately change my entire opinion of the situation.

:D
 
His marketing strategy has already cost him a customer (namely, me..a woman.) It's fine and dandy that "warm blooded american males" might find that strategy effective, but you sure aren't going to branch out from that customer base with it. And last I looked, more than 50% of the people who bothered to get off their duffs and vote were women.
 
Well, I'd figure its closer to 10% who wouldn't like it (maybe 15% if you figured 10% are gay and 5% don't like either gender.) I'd say men would have about the same rate of liking to be found attractive.

But there's a difference between being appreciated and being used as a selling prop, wouldn't you say?
 
Barbara, to some extent I see what you're saying, but there is another side to this. Perhaps in our manly crude way it hasn't come across as intended.

We generally raise about $50,000-$70,000 for an evening banquet, that's about 450-500 people. Our goal is to have each attendee contribute about $150.

We have a sorority that helps out with our Pheasants Forever banquet each year.....they dress in evening gowns and are affectionately referred to as "Pheasant Chicks". Fact is most hunting and shooting events of this nature are attended by a majority of guys. For whatever reason, guys are competitive and like to "out-do" each other for bragging rights (like spending money)....no better way to play on this than have the women coaxing them on. Guys get all stupid and begin showing off when a lady is involved.

Like it or not, women have an ability for getting men to part with money (and I'm not referring to the oldest profession)....whether it's a new kitchen, Christmas shopping, or something for the kids. A mans "Achiles heel" is a smile and a gentle nudge.
 
(if it helps you get over the ulcer you're getting from this, I'm just as rabid about gun rights. :) )
 
Women

Well...Watchin' this one and figured to steer clear of it, but it looks like it's goin' south pretty fast....so I'll comment and let the smoke roll on.

I understand Barbara's position here...but it's a fact that pretty girls at a sales booth draw crowds of men. Sad...but there it is. Men will make total idiots of themselves around a pretty girl. We've all done it at one time or another. If the product being offered is targeted mainly at men, salting the area with attractive ladies is a marketing strategy and nothing more. Rather like suggesting that we all need "Brand X" mouthwash or "Brand Y" deodorant lest people will choke and run screaming from us as soon as we enter the room.

That said...I've reached the point in my life that I'll specifically avoid sales booths that hire models to draw the crowds and hawk their wares...and on the occasions that I do stop by for a look, I'm careful not to say or do anything to give the impression that I think I'm gonna "Pick up a Chick"
or anything of that nature. Most of the ladies who do this sort of thing are
courteous but disconnected because they know why they're there...and they know how to ignore and/or sidestep the veiled suggestions and lewd remarks that they often have to endure. I guess I just don't want to be categorized
as "Oh GAWD! Another one of THOSE!" ...with the snickering and eyerolling that goes on after I've left. Much rather have them say: "Well, he was a nice guy. Sorta reminds me of my dad!":D

As long as there are things to sell, there will be people who fit into the category of what the seller wants to appeal to. Cute babies sell diapers,
so they "exploit" babies in the ads. Warm puppies sell Purina Puppy Chow...
Stereotypical cowboy types sell chewing tobacco...and there will always be people willing to exploit those things...and people willing to BE exploited for a paycheck. (That's what models DO, after all. It's just another assignment.) And pretty women sell many things...From lingerie' to cars to gas grills to free checking down at the bank.

We now return you to your regularly scheduled flame war...;)
 
Why would you call this a flame war? Because I'm expresssing an opinion out of the ordinary? Or because people disagree with me? It doesn't bother me in the least and I don't think anyone, at least this morning, has attacked anyone else. We've disagreed. It's a discussion. We're not the Borg.

I dunno about you, but I'd say we rarely learn from people exactly like us, eh?

But I'm sticking to my guns here. You may find using T&A sells something to men, but you're ignoring a huge group of consumers and losing sales by doing so.
 
Let's put it this way..of all of the people on this thread, how many would actually have attended this thing and spent time and money on it (raises hand.)

I live one state away and drive to southern Wisconsin regularly anyway (my son is stationed at Great Lakes Naval base) and this by far wouldn't be the longest drive I've ever made for gun rights (that would be DC, alone with a child, several years ago.)

Now, due to the prospects of seeing some "young, attractive females", how many of you will now be attending?

Hopefully, at least one, because the marketing strategy cost him one customer already and he needs to make up for it.
 
I must say that as we men mature, we see beauty as simply that, beauty.
Those of us who can appreciate a womans beauty/charms without thinking "shes hot for me' have cleared a important hurdle in life. SHE AIN'T HOT FOR ME!! In this case, I feel sure that the intention is not to "belittle women, but instead to allow a mans deepest weakness to surface. All win in this situtation;)
 
On the other hand, I live in a world where people are appalled that I have grey hair at 37.

Newsflash: Women of 37 have grey hair. Most of us hide it because its expected, and grey hair is considered unattractive, and goodness knows, that's what we're here for!

Then again, I've never been known to do what's expected. :)

People don't expect when I show up in a suit and driving a minivan that I'm going to be carrying a gun, either. :)
 
WOW, OH WOW!

Nematocyst-870:

"This strikes me as marketing of the worst kind.

...Who let you into THR?"

"Let me tell you what most 'senior' THR members
- those with more than 1000 posts -
would "have a problem with"."

"When THR succumbs to that kind of rhetoric,
then, it's time for me to find a different island."

DUDE! You ever take the time to view some of Oleg's work?

www.a-human-right.com

If the ladies in his photos all looked like Rossane Bar or Sen. Finestien would we bother to look at them?

Barbara, I appriciate your opinion, and you right to express it; however, it is a simple fact that he will get many more customer to his table with one or two attractive ladies and not. You certianly do not like it, but you are grossly in the minority on this one. Not meaning to be harsh, but it is reality.

Does you family reload, do you use Dillon products? Have you seen thier advertising literature?

Monkeyleg ,my wife said she would love to come attend your table, but we are too far away to even make it feasable.
 
re:

Quote:

>Why would you call this a flame war? Because I'm expresssing an opinion out of the ordinary? Or because people disagree with me?<
*********************

That was a joke, Barbara. :) Partly to inject a little humor and and partly because it's beginning to heat up and I wanted to try to cool things down a bit.

While you may view this request as shameless exploitation or even as a personal affront...your sister or daughter or best friend may well see it as an opportunity to pick up some cash for standin' around makin' small talk, and
possibly some exposure for another merchant who may want to hire them for another show. It's not like the guy is asking them to "service the customers in the back room." It's a modeling assignment and nothing more. >Repeat<...That's what models do...every day...and, it's a matter of free will. If you don't want the job, don't apply. If you don't want to patronize the merchant because of his advertising/selling strategy...don't buy from him.
 
your sister or daughter or best friend may well see it as an opportunity to pick up some cash for standin' around makin' small talk
Click to expand...

Actually, if I read the initial poster's thoughts correctly, these people are volunteering and therefore not going to be paid a dime. They are volunteering because they are hardcore supporters of the 2A and CCW as a whole. By asking for females I don't think he was shutting the door to men all together either.

Part of marketing is selling a product as hip and trendy. For that reason alone I imagine he wants young ladies there but probably young men too. By having a number of youth present, along with a good mixing of seasoned vets, you paint a strong image about CCW and the 2A.

In times that I have volunteered in the past, or gone about recruiting people for a college cause that I participated in we would undoubtedly bring about a couple of the female members of the group, along with the many more men that were interested in helping anyway. They didn't come along to be shown off for the young men around campus that may have been interested. They came around because they wanted to be part of something fun and something that they are helping make a difference at.

For some reason republican, pro-gun, or conservative activist causes have more male members than female's anyway. I don't think the women are going to be flaunted as sex or T&A. I think the original poster's intent is to have a bunch of young folks to offset the older crowd. I'm sure everyone will be dressed in comfortable clothing that does nothing to flaunt sexuality.

As someone pointed out, the owner of this forum, Oleg Volk, uses almost exclusively female models for his posters. If my memory serves me correctly, there is also a pro-2A activist group out there called "The Second Amendment Sisters" which, by the sounds of it, is exclusive to females. I'm sure some of them bring their teenage sons or young male friends to events when they table so as to help increase traffic.

He probably came to THR asking for volunteers first because he knew that if someone is on THR, they are more likely to be enthusiastic about the 2A and CCW in general. While i'm not a female, as a 20 something young man i'd volunteer to help you out in a heartbeat if not for the 2000 mile drive I would incurr.

Good luck Wisconsin! You guys have got a hard fight on your hands. Gest wishes.
 
Well, for me, its doubly frustrating, because I make a concerted effort to get women more involved. And granted, I'm slightly more aggressive than the average person, so when you push my buttons, I'm going to express my opinion.

There are pictures of me on Oleg's site, although presumably its there because of my work for gun rights and not to someone can look at my chest.
That's what I'd prefer to be recognized for..deeds, not appearance. Whether or not anyone finds me attractive would be a personal thing, not for public display.

So, the question stands: How many people has he gained by having hawt chicks and how many has he lost?

Lost: Me and whoever would have come with me, which would have been at least one person, and probably more. I've got enough gun stuff on my plate now to keep me busy until the election anyway.

Gained: Speak up. If you feel that strongly about it, vote with your wallet.

For those of you curious:
http://www.olegvolk.net/gallery/various/michigan/brian_barb.jpg.html
 
Everyone who has ever read even a few posts of mine knows that I pretty well agree with Barbara about using sex as a marketing tool.

But Monkeyleg, the original thread starter, made it very clear that he wasn't talking about that.

He was talking about having a balanced sales force, consisting of both sexes and of some age other than "old fart."

pax
 
Volunteers

jobu...Was addressing the modeling question in general. Whether volunteers or hired for pay...it's the same game. Using a specific skill or attribute to sell a product or an idea.

Barbara...

Please don't assume that it's all about T&A for everyone. Many of us can carry on lengthy conversations with young, attractive ladies in tight shorts and tank tops without glancing below mouth level. (Why mouth, you ask?
Simple. My hearing is pretty well shot in the upper registers and with certain female voice ranges, reading lips helps me. Besides...an open, friendly smile and bright, clear eyes get my attention every time.)
 
All right. I erased the flame war that started this thread, and am re-opening it because I think it needs to be discussed.

Barbara, you know I usually agree with you on this kind of thing, but please re-read all of Monkeyleg's posts. I think you are fighting a straw woman here. ;)

pax
 
Another Female's Opinion

Barbara, Sorry but I am going to have to politely disagree with you. I have guys tell me all of the time that they think it is hot that I am interested in guns and shooting. Do I mind that? No not at all. I do not shoot to impress men, I shoot because I enjoy it. I am sure there are guys that may roll their eyes when they see a girl come to the range too. Monkeyleg is just trying to raise as much money as possible for a good cause. Instead of inviting women and encouraging them to come out, he could say that he does not want females there at all. At least he is wanting females there IMO. I know most girls intially would feel more comfortable talking to a girl about guns, purely for the fact that they do not want to look stupid in front of guys. He is not asking them to be in skimpy bathing suits and such like you see in car magazines. He realizes that men are men, and nothing is going to change that, sad as it may be. Women can be the same way though. Seeing as how a majority of shooters are men (at least down here. There were 40 people at the range yesterday and I was the only female) he is marketing to the largest crowd. Seems smart to me. We all know that "sex sells". I work my butt off in the gym everyday, I surely hope that guys would appreciate the results of my efforts.
 
It Goes Both Way--Ladies AND Gentlemen

Let’s have a professional level conversation on the issue, and the merits and detriments. Let us not slide into arguing and stereotyping.

I submit the following thesis statement(argument): “Sex sells, not quality”. This thesis statement applies equally to men and to women. To support this thesis statement, I would direct the readers (both genders) to check the inside cover of the June, 2006 issue of "Combat Handguns". Therein, Glock touts a slinky, tight, black dress clad female for the men, and a handsome devil, tight-shaved and dappered up in a tux for the ladies.

This pictoral display is intended to sell Glocks? Sex does sell, unfortunate as it may be. Even a company with the "credentials and qualities" as Glock for some senseless reason needs to push sex instead of steel. Every time I pick up my Glock 17s, I have never had sex on my mind. I have Glock and shooting, or concealed carry in mind.

Yes, I know that the "models" are not models. They are highly-skilled, world-class shootists. But, in that case display them only in that capacity. Sure, there are pics of them doing that too--but the BIG pick, the eye-catcher is the "sexy" display.

In closing, and regarding the need to previously close the thread to clean it then reopen it, I do not blame the moderator. I blame the unprofessional participants who fail to rise to the High Road standards to which we all agreed. I which more people would take the high road.

Doc2005
 
Monkeyleg's well known reputation on this forum should be enough to make it clear that he isn't interested in sleeze.

And there is nothing wrong with young ladies being attractive. He did say "ladies" after all. A lady can be attractive and not seen in a context of selling sex. I suspect that all of us know ladies that we consider to be attractive, and yet don't consider sex to be any part of the picture.

It is a gross insult to real ladies to suggest that they can't be attractive, and out selling themselves at the same time.

All Dick is trying to do is raise enough money so that CCW will have a chance of passage in Wisconsin - nothing more. I consider some of the references that have been made on this thread to be an uncalled for insult directed toward him. Some people need to get the issue back into the intended context, and that had nothing to do with sex.
 
Then I would submit that Dick should not have used a title like "young, attractive females" if what he wanted was people knowledgeable about firearms. Backsliding about his intent later doesn't change anything. The fact is, he's looking for chicks to sell guns for him.

Being the one woman out of 50 on the range and having men think you're hot, is not what I'd consider a good thing. I'd rather see a 50-50 mix and not care much what anyone looks like, but rather how good a shot they are or if they have an interesting firearm. It's not match.com, its a gun range. There's a woman on one board I post with the sig line "A little woman in a big old world of men." Gag me.

Maybe if women could go to a range and not have to worry whether they look hawt or not, or better yet, not go with the expectation (or hope) that someone might find them hawt, you might not be the only woman out there.

As it is, I rarely go to public ranges because of that crap, and when I do, I'm wearing about 3 layers of clothes. I'm sure that's a big reason why you don't see more women there. We can't be left alone to actually do what we're there for, goodness knows.

Like I said, have your gathering with women as selling tools, rather than consumers. But do it without me, and don't expect my support. I dont care how good the cause is..there are plenty of good causes out there, and Wisconsin is merely a tourist destination to me. I'd rather spend my time and money in my own state, improving our own laws, and where women do a huge amount of the work on gun rights anyway, without being posed.

As far as I'm concerned, this is a dead horse on my part. I've said what I have to say, and I'll act on it as I see fit.

Now, if you'll excuse me, I have some sewing to do.
 
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